I switched my Paladin to Holy when I hit level 80 and so far I am loving it, but I am finding there are some Heroics that I just can't do.
I have failed VoA repeatedly, but I am blaming the dps for that. My big problems is when I try things like Nexus and Halls of Lightning. The Archmage in Nexus and Ormorok literally tore us apart, when the mage split up aggro was going everywhere and I couldnt keep up. Ormorok just hit too high, and those little lasher things meant I had to spread half my heals to myself and the rest of the group instead of just the tank. Loken was impossible for us, but again I blame the DPS for getting caught in the Novas... 5 wipes in a row. Against King Dred, even though it was just a single person being hurt I found it impossible to keep up with his damage, especially with the fear involved, but I dont know if it is my fault or a poor tank or weak dps.
Anyway, this is my gear:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azuremyst&n=Xervish
Basic stats, 1490 bonus healing, 16kish mana, 25.6% holy crit. Relatively low haste rating.
Is there any special tactics for encounters like that? Something special I should be doing? Can I just claim the dps sucks or am I undergeared?
Edited, Mar 19th 2009 8:10pm by EbanySalamonderiel
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You are low geared, but that doesn't mean its your fault. You can't really just simply blame DPS either, although anyone getting hit by something simple like Loken's blast makes it their fault.
For Ormorok, have a ranged DPS kill the lashers. It gives you mobility, which is essential when dodging the ice spikes(Although I've been told to stand on the boss and not have to worry, I've never done it. :P)
The mage is easy. Just make sure that people down the blue mage first when she splits to get rid of the blizzard. Again, some people hate the sheep more, but AOE damage is the hardest to take care of as a pally, so I always ask for blue first. While you're flying through the air, you can still instant cast spells, so don't just watch the screen and think "Weeeeeee!". Holy shock the tank or anyone who is low, put up sacred shield, put up beacon, and judge the mage.
For King Dred, grievous bite is a debuff that lasts until the tank is full health. If you see it on him, throw a bit of overhealing onto him to get rid of it. I've personally found it real glitchy as I heal the tank to full with one heal and if I don't follow up, the debuff remains. The fear is 35 yards, so you should be able to simply stay out of range of the fear. If you're having too much trouble, bring your PvP trinket along to pop during one and bubble out of the other.
The Loken run isn't that hard so long as everyone is doing the same thing. The lighted floor is your best path. Run down the stairs, run up the stairs. Repeat. Easy peasy. Again, if you keep beacon up on the tank, it shouldn't be very hard at all to keep everyone up. They shouldn't get one-shot by the novas, so keeping your hand ready on the holy shock button can really save them. I've done that boss with the bad hunter that couldn't follow instructions if his life depended on it. He sat at a good range and kept DPSing and never moved. I kept him up, and he got the achievement for eating all the novas in the face..... yeah, he got an achievement for being a ****** and then began bragging about it to the rest of the group.
I'll recommend that you get the Add-on Healbot, or Grid+clique as well. It'll ease your pain a bit.
For Ormorok, have a ranged DPS kill the lashers. It gives you mobility, which is essential when dodging the ice spikes(Although I've been told to stand on the boss and not have to worry, I've never done it. :P)
The mage is easy. Just make sure that people down the blue mage first when she splits to get rid of the blizzard. Again, some people hate the sheep more, but AOE damage is the hardest to take care of as a pally, so I always ask for blue first. While you're flying through the air, you can still instant cast spells, so don't just watch the screen and think "Weeeeeee!". Holy shock the tank or anyone who is low, put up sacred shield, put up beacon, and judge the mage.
For King Dred, grievous bite is a debuff that lasts until the tank is full health. If you see it on him, throw a bit of overhealing onto him to get rid of it. I've personally found it real glitchy as I heal the tank to full with one heal and if I don't follow up, the debuff remains. The fear is 35 yards, so you should be able to simply stay out of range of the fear. If you're having too much trouble, bring your PvP trinket along to pop during one and bubble out of the other.
The Loken run isn't that hard so long as everyone is doing the same thing. The lighted floor is your best path. Run down the stairs, run up the stairs. Repeat. Easy peasy. Again, if you keep beacon up on the tank, it shouldn't be very hard at all to keep everyone up. They shouldn't get one-shot by the novas, so keeping your hand ready on the holy shock button can really save them. I've done that boss with the bad hunter that couldn't follow instructions if his life depended on it. He sat at a good range and kept DPSing and never moved. I kept him up, and he got the achievement for eating all the novas in the face..... yeah, he got an achievement for being a ****** and then began bragging about it to the rest of the group.
I'll recommend that you get the Add-on Healbot, or Grid+clique as well. It'll ease your pain a bit.
EbanySalamonderiel wrote:
I had to spread half my heals to myself and the rest of the group instead of just the tank.
Did you beacon the tank when you did this?
"the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Yes I use beacon every time I foresee a tough fight.
I didnt realise the 3 seperate mages used different attacks each, ill get them to focus on the damn sheep next time. I could barely get a heal off except for shocks when she started morphing me. And I like that tip of standing on Ormorok, that makes sense. Means my lashers get killed by the AoE dps as well. In a couple days I will get my sheild with Emblems of Heroism and some more of the pvp jewellery so will be slightly better equipped. Im not gonna blame myself for Loken, when the dps is eating Novas it isnt my fault... especially that damn shadow priest, 5 wipes in a row she ate the first nova and died.
Currently working towards the Argent Crusade epic helmet and the Barricade of The Light for Heroism Emblems. Any other easily obtainable items I should be looking to pick up? I heard 25% Holy crit as a target, should I be looking to go over that or should I use gems to stack Int or Spellpower now?
I didnt realise the 3 seperate mages used different attacks each, ill get them to focus on the damn sheep next time. I could barely get a heal off except for shocks when she started morphing me. And I like that tip of standing on Ormorok, that makes sense. Means my lashers get killed by the AoE dps as well. In a couple days I will get my sheild with Emblems of Heroism and some more of the pvp jewellery so will be slightly better equipped. Im not gonna blame myself for Loken, when the dps is eating Novas it isnt my fault... especially that damn shadow priest, 5 wipes in a row she ate the first nova and died.
Currently working towards the Argent Crusade epic helmet and the Barricade of The Light for Heroism Emblems. Any other easily obtainable items I should be looking to pick up? I heard 25% Holy crit as a target, should I be looking to go over that or should I use gems to stack Int or Spellpower now?
EbanySalamonderiel wrote:
Currently working towards the Argent Crusade epic helmet and the Barricade of The Light for Heroism Emblems. Any other easily obtainable items I should be looking to pick up? I heard 25% Holy crit as a target, should I be looking to go over that or should I use gems to stack Int or Spellpower now?
Your armory has your PvP set, so I can't get exact details, but in my opinion, some good goals are:
1700 spellpower, then
19k-20k mana pool, then
30% holy crit
After that, you can take the biggest upgrade available, as items at a given ilvl will tend to balance your stats out over time. What you choose to emphasize is up to you, but prevailing opinion is that the most efficient gearing is to gear for heavy Int and use active mana regen (DP, replenishment, mana stream) to mix in more Holy Light, rather than trying to maximize the healing power of Flash of Light through heavy SP.
Some "easy" gear options to upgrade from a Deadly Gladiator baseline:
- Both the Ebon Blade and Kirin Tor have a decent cloak at Honored, and you can usually find a Wispcloak for cash.
- Also for cash, the boots off Noth (Poignant Sabatons) are BoE and fairly pricy, but they are perfectly itemized and arguably the second-best boots available before 3.1.
- Ring of Temerity, also perfectly itemized as well as being frankly overpowered for its ilvl, is avaliable from an easy quest in normal Oculus. The AC also have a ring at Exalted which you can pick up along with the hat.
- The Tuskarr mace is probably not an upgrade over the (overrated) Titansteel, but keep beating on Nexus for Keristrasza's mace.
- I can't disagree with spending your first Emblems on the shield, but the 25 emblem necklace is almost its equal as an upgrade, although both have a costly equivalent for gold (Zom's Crackling Bulwark and Titanium Spellshock Amulet).
- Then the next 40 can go for the Emblem trinket if you need the SP, although it would be worth more if it had a static or use effect and not a proc. If you have money to burn, Je'Tze's Bell is BoE now and 106 SP with bonus mana back is tasty.
- If you want to be economical with Emblems, the 40 Emblem belt is Best In Slot for 10-man content, and is - a common thread on this list - perfectly itemized. Emblem for emblem, by far the biggest upgrade you can get.
- The Emblem of Valor bracers are BoE and hardcore raiders with no upgrades left before T8.25 are starting to use them to convert emblems to $$$. If you have the money to drop, they're slightly better than the best 10-man Naxx bracers.
- N.B. You'll want the 15 badge libram eventually. It, along with Glyph of Seal of Wisdom and Glyph of Holy Light, are major enablers of a Holy Shock/Holy Light-centered healing style that is in my opinion the best response to more challenging content.
Wow, thanks for the list. I will be looking into all that as soon as I can. You have been a fantastic help.
Looks like you Pvp alot, keep your Holy set for healing(sp/int/hast/crit) and a Pvp set for...well PVP (resilence).
Always gem for INT unless it affect a Meta gem at some point. A few sp pots might help but for Hol/Hos yeah I say you are on the low end to heal those. The guys here have given excellent advice, they've helped me a ton, just Beacon the heck out of you and the tank, HS on the run. Run H-VH or other easy ones (ALOT) to build up your Emblems, the trinks are nice also. Make sure your wearing the faction tabbards for the rep.
Good Luck and have fun.
Always gem for INT unless it affect a Meta gem at some point. A few sp pots might help but for Hol/Hos yeah I say you are on the low end to heal those. The guys here have given excellent advice, they've helped me a ton, just Beacon the heck out of you and the tank, HS on the run. Run H-VH or other easy ones (ALOT) to build up your Emblems, the trinks are nice also. Make sure your wearing the faction tabbards for the rep.
Good Luck and have fun.
26 posts
Quote:
Your armory has your PvP set, so I can't get exact details, but in my opinion, some good goals are:
1700 spellpower, then
19k-20k mana pool, then
30% holy crit
1700 spellpower, then
19k-20k mana pool, then
30% holy crit
How it is supposed to go Heroics with such stats? Link me the normal items that will output such numbers?!And probably you forgot the 20k HP a Hc starter should have.
The best I could equip on lvl 80 was about 1.2k-1.3k SP, 16-17k Mana and about 20% crit. OR maybe you mean putting all the expensive enchants I would go for only for my T7 gear? That's huge waste of money.
No offense, but doing Heroic Nexus requires much less of a healing. You need to be efficient. You prolly need to know how much dmg is incoming and which fight requires intensive healing on the whole group, but it shouldn't be that much of a problem after doing few runs.
I'm really surprised to see smn finds Nexus hard for healing. I'd expect few fights on VH, GD and HoL to be serious problem for a pally healer.
And Finally there are dungeons that can't be completed with every party and sometimes one man slacking is enough to wipe all couple of times. So try it with different party, best if you are all in the same guild.
Metosa wrote:
Quote:
Your armory has your PvP set, so I can't get exact details, but in my opinion, some good goals are:
1700 spellpower, then
19k-20k mana pool, then
30% holy crit
1700 spellpower, then
19k-20k mana pool, then
30% holy crit
How it is supposed to go Heroics with such stats? Link me the normal items that will output such numbers?!And probably you forgot the 20k HP a Hc starter should have.
I'm going to be charitable and assume you just missed the word "goals". Goals are where you are going, not where you are. As you mention in the part I snipped (and which I believe was in the original post, just snipped from your quote), his gear is perfectly fine for most heroics as is. That part was advice on long-term strategy in gear planning, not short-term tactics of where to go or how to fight.
When the quoted post said that the first goal should be 1700 spellpower, that's what it meant - that's what you should concentrate on when gearing up until you get there. For example, the Titansteel Guardian, which is overall a mediocre endgame weapon, is good to grab while working your way through heroics because you can use the spellpower on it more than you could the Int from the War Mace. By the time you're raiding, you'll have hit 1600-1700, so you can consider swapping it out for more regen. Because
Is it a realistic goal for heroic content? Back-of-the-envelope says that reasonable (not necessarily best in slot) heroic and easily obtainable (i.e. not requiring exalted with every faction) gear is /exactly/ the spot where you are starting to decide whether to continue to gem/chant for spellpower or start diversifying into int/crit.
So I disagree on both counts - not only was the post you quoted relevant, but it was, in the main, correct.
I think those are fine numbers for goals, but yeah, a bit of a reach for BOE/pre-Heroic gear. When I hit 80 I was rocking a little more than 1500 spellpower, 17k mana, and close to 30% holy crit, which was more than good enough for clearing the easier heroics with an average group. You and your group members will just have to accept the risk that comes with that; the dungeon will hold some challenge for you, rather than a badge-farming spree. You might wipe, or even worse, actually use CC on dungeon trash.
What I find more ominous though is the comment about "maybe you mean putting all the expensive enchants I would go for only for my T7 gear? That's huge waste of money."
Say what? Other than +63sp to weapon, +30sp to bracers, and sapphire spellthread, there are no expensive enchants in Wrath. Fortunately, each of those "expensive" enchants has a much cheaper counterpart that's perfectly appropriate for putting onto good blues. If you tell me that you're not willing to enchant gear before T7, all you show anyone is that you don't want to raid, period.
What I find more ominous though is the comment about "maybe you mean putting all the expensive enchants I would go for only for my T7 gear? That's huge waste of money."
Say what? Other than +63sp to weapon, +30sp to bracers, and sapphire spellthread, there are no expensive enchants in Wrath. Fortunately, each of those "expensive" enchants has a much cheaper counterpart that's perfectly appropriate for putting onto good blues. If you tell me that you're not willing to enchant gear before T7, all you show anyone is that you don't want to raid, period.
Ive followed your advice (as best I can) and got myself some better gear. I now have 19k+ mana unbuffed, 30% crit and 1560 spellpower.
Managed Nexus today with very little incident and got myself the mace. Much easier when dps arent eating ormoroks spikes. Got myself a few level 80 blues which are far better for instances than the pvp gear I was running around in (boots and belt).
My list of items badly needing upgraded is starting to shrink: Chest, Helm and Shoulders.
Any advice for where to find a good Chest and Shoulders? Doesnt have to be best in slot, but there has to be something better than my Saronite stuff out there.
I looked at getting a Wispcloak but it didnt seem enough of an upgrade over my current cloak to warrant the 600g pricetag.
You may also note that I picked up JCing to get the nice Int stacking trinket and Dragon's Eye gems.
As a side note, I got to do Naxx!!! We killed Grobulus after 4 wipes then gave up after 2 wipes on Gluth. Perhaps not the most successful run ever, but I did win the Necklace from Grobulus.
Ive also worked out why I failed against King Dred perviously. I never examined the tank before going in. A bear tank with 8 peices of dps gear and only 25k HP with BoK. Failed epically in CoS today, but the Hunter was only managing 560DPS... I could have beat him if I tried.
Managed Nexus today with very little incident and got myself the mace. Much easier when dps arent eating ormoroks spikes. Got myself a few level 80 blues which are far better for instances than the pvp gear I was running around in (boots and belt).
My list of items badly needing upgraded is starting to shrink: Chest, Helm and Shoulders.
Any advice for where to find a good Chest and Shoulders? Doesnt have to be best in slot, but there has to be something better than my Saronite stuff out there.
I looked at getting a Wispcloak but it didnt seem enough of an upgrade over my current cloak to warrant the 600g pricetag.
You may also note that I picked up JCing to get the nice Int stacking trinket and Dragon's Eye gems.
As a side note, I got to do Naxx!!! We killed Grobulus after 4 wipes then gave up after 2 wipes on Gluth. Perhaps not the most successful run ever, but I did win the Necklace from Grobulus.
Ive also worked out why I failed against King Dred perviously. I never examined the tank before going in. A bear tank with 8 peices of dps gear and only 25k HP with BoK. Failed epically in CoS today, but the Hunter was only managing 560DPS... I could have beat him if I tried.
EbanySalamonderiel wrote:
Ive followed your advice (as best I can) and got myself some better gear. I now have 19k+ mana unbuffed, 30% crit and 1560 spellpower.
Managed Nexus today with very little incident and got myself the mace. Much easier when dps arent eating ormoroks spikes. Got myself a few level 80 blues which are far better for instances than the pvp gear I was running around in (boots and belt).
My list of items badly needing upgraded is starting to shrink: Chest, Helm and Shoulders.
Any advice for where to find a good Chest and Shoulders? Doesnt have to be best in slot, but there has to be something better than my Saronite stuff out there.
I looked at getting a Wispcloak but it didnt seem enough of an upgrade over my current cloak to warrant the 600g pricetag.
You may also note that I picked up JCing to get the nice Int stacking trinket and Dragon's Eye gems.
As a side note, I got to do Naxx!!! We killed Grobulus after 4 wipes then gave up after 2 wipes on Gluth. Perhaps not the most successful run ever, but I did win the Necklace from Grobulus.
Ive also worked out why I failed against King Dred perviously. I never examined the tank before going in. A bear tank with 8 peices of dps gear and only 25k HP with BoK. Failed epically in CoS today, but the Hunter was only managing 560DPS... I could have beat him if I tried.
Managed Nexus today with very little incident and got myself the mace. Much easier when dps arent eating ormoroks spikes. Got myself a few level 80 blues which are far better for instances than the pvp gear I was running around in (boots and belt).
My list of items badly needing upgraded is starting to shrink: Chest, Helm and Shoulders.
Any advice for where to find a good Chest and Shoulders? Doesnt have to be best in slot, but there has to be something better than my Saronite stuff out there.
I looked at getting a Wispcloak but it didnt seem enough of an upgrade over my current cloak to warrant the 600g pricetag.
You may also note that I picked up JCing to get the nice Int stacking trinket and Dragon's Eye gems.
As a side note, I got to do Naxx!!! We killed Grobulus after 4 wipes then gave up after 2 wipes on Gluth. Perhaps not the most successful run ever, but I did win the Necklace from Grobulus.
Ive also worked out why I failed against King Dred perviously. I never examined the tank before going in. A bear tank with 8 peices of dps gear and only 25k HP with BoK. Failed epically in CoS today, but the Hunter was only managing 560DPS... I could have beat him if I tried.
Congratulations - in some ways, the bigger the instance the easier it is, because DPS who stand in the fire cost the group less of its margin when you can't keep them up anymore. Grob is a big test in this department, because everyone has to watch out for themselves and the spacing makes it particularly hard to recover...
As for advice, if you're having success, and it sounds like you are, I wouldn't worry about stacking a particular stat for now and to concentrate on solid upgrades. Replacing saronite and titansteel is almost always a good thing in my opinion, but (heresy!) try to keep your SP where it is when you do so (the next 100 SP will be decisive more often in the near future than the next 1000 mana). Not to mention that the gear selection is pretty thin - heroic chestpieces tend to be MP5-heavy, and heroic plate shoulders blow. Just aim for upgrades, don't ignore mail, and both Violet Hold(H) and Utgarde Pinnacle(H) are pretty close to the best for drops. UP is particularly good if your group is competent because it will stretch you even if your group isn't trying for achievements.
I was in a pug group for Naxx tonight, where 4 out of 10 (including both tanks) had never fought most of the bosses there. It went spectacularly. Cleared Arachnid with 0 wipes, Plague with a couple wipes on Heigan (I cant dance) and up to the 4 Horseman in Military. The other healer was a priest with the full tier set and I outhealed her all the way through, although she danced better than me.
Also blitzed CoS and Nexus last night with 0 deaths and got the Infinite Corrupter in CoS. Yes deaths can still happen when I make mistakes, but I think I can safely say I am a competent healer.
Now I am sure you dont all want a running commentary of what instances I have managed. Although you have to understand my excitement, only a few months ago clearing Deadmines was an achievement, so doing anything endgame makes me over the moon.
I think I should let this topic die now, but thank you people for your help, when I clear Heroic Naxx then ill come back and thank you again.
Edit: Was ready to slap the ret paladins against Loatheb, healing is very limited in that fight and both were using Seal of the Martyr... I was having a hard enough time keeping the rest of the raid alive without those 2 taking chunks out of themselves.
Edited, Mar 30th 2009 10:24pm by EbanySalamonderiel
Also blitzed CoS and Nexus last night with 0 deaths and got the Infinite Corrupter in CoS. Yes deaths can still happen when I make mistakes, but I think I can safely say I am a competent healer.
Now I am sure you dont all want a running commentary of what instances I have managed. Although you have to understand my excitement, only a few months ago clearing Deadmines was an achievement, so doing anything endgame makes me over the moon.
I think I should let this topic die now, but thank you people for your help, when I clear Heroic Naxx then ill come back and thank you again.
Edit: Was ready to slap the ret paladins against Loatheb, healing is very limited in that fight and both were using Seal of the Martyr... I was having a hard enough time keeping the rest of the raid alive without those 2 taking chunks out of themselves.
Edited, Mar 30th 2009 10:24pm by EbanySalamonderiel
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