Hi guys I was looking at the PTR notes for 3.1 and did a little fooling around with the new talents and such I was wondering if this would be a viable build and if not would you share ur two or three cents as to why? I'm still learning and I've read most of the content on dk's on this site. I did a test with something very close to this build with the curent setup. on quest gear at lvl 71 I could pound out about 950ish dps on lvl 70 dummy's with just the standard two minute ghoul. The biggest problem I have is with the rotation the first rotation ends and there is about a 1.5 second gap of nothing. After the first rotation the problems seem to go away because of extra rp dumps and the runic cd's seem to speed up (the whole 8.5 vs 10 sec thing). A few things to keep in mind this is mostly a lvling build I designed to shell out massive amounts of damage to thrash mobs as I run dungeons. but it still seems to work well on solo targets like the dragonkin in nexus as I seem to still pump out the same dps numbers.
3.1 Build
other notes I was in blood persence while testing and horn of winter up. Im not saying this is dps king but it seemed to work better than the 50/0/21. plus I can blood pact the ghoul because we all have been on a run with a trash healer lol. Popping a HB while rime and KM proc's are up nets me about 3000 damage for free.
Edited, Mar 18th 2009 4:02am by highlandr
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If this is for PvE, you're wasting points in Chilblains; if it's a PvP build, you're wasting points in Necrosis and BCB.
If this is a PvE build, you almost need Imp Icy Talons; it's a huge talent with Necrosis and BCB.
I also think that UB will be better than the new (i.e. terrible) HB.
This is what I'd personally roll with.
Therion and I were talking about a build similar to this in PMs, IIRC.
If this is a PvE build, you almost need Imp Icy Talons; it's a huge talent with Necrosis and BCB.
I also think that UB will be better than the new (i.e. terrible) HB.
This is what I'd personally roll with.
Therion and I were talking about a build similar to this in PMs, IIRC.
11 posts
Ok I changed my build up a little. It looks like yours but I kept the HB over UB. Reason is it seem to do more damage outright and its look like its free ever five sec where UB uses 40 Rp I could be using for something else. I would like to know why you perfer UB over HB maybe I missed something. I also changed my glyphs I have never used my death coil to heal so I switched that with CE (not that I use that either but who knows its up for grabs) Also I was thinking about switching out the OB with DS in my rotation so I changed that glyph as well. since it seems like I can get about as much damage with DS and heals.
Other Thoughts:
Did the blood persence get nerfed. I dont see anything in the new tooltip about a damage increase for Imp BP which sucks all you get is the healing effect?
Also I notice that the unholy nows has a rune cd decrease instead of the gcd decrease. I wonder if blizz is going to get rid of the 10 vs 8.5 thing and make us spec unholy for it. If not I wonder if the 10% stacks on the 8.5 sec cd (can we say damn near 7.5 second rune cd's).
I used my background updater today to download the patch 3.1 if you havent you might want to do it now as a heads up nothing sucks more then having to wait to play WoW. It was 555mb in size.
Also under the ghoul frenzy tooltip is says it cost 1 unholy rune and 9% of base mana WTF lol?
Edited for spelling
Edited, Mar 18th 2009 7:15am by highlandr
Other Thoughts:
Did the blood persence get nerfed. I dont see anything in the new tooltip about a damage increase for Imp BP which sucks all you get is the healing effect?
Also I notice that the unholy nows has a rune cd decrease instead of the gcd decrease. I wonder if blizz is going to get rid of the 10 vs 8.5 thing and make us spec unholy for it. If not I wonder if the 10% stacks on the 8.5 sec cd (can we say damn near 7.5 second rune cd's).
I used my background updater today to download the patch 3.1 if you havent you might want to do it now as a heads up nothing sucks more then having to wait to play WoW. It was 555mb in size.
Also under the ghoul frenzy tooltip is says it cost 1 unholy rune and 9% of base mana WTF lol?
Edited for spelling
Edited, Mar 18th 2009 7:15am by highlandr
HB is a waste because it's a GCD that you have to use.
Rime procs on IT; you use IT once in this spec for every two rune cycles; that's maybe one free HB every 20 secs.
UB is up full-time if you use it once in a 20 sec cycle.
UB's damage (I've personally never taken the skill) is supposedly ~250 per sec.
250 * 20 = 5000. You'd have to have HB give you a crit for 5k every single time you use it in order for it to equal UB.
And I have a feeling that's a little on the low side for UB damage for geared DKs.
Also consider that UB is an AoE; so while you're in a trash pack with it up, you're doing more damage.
Also consider that HB's damage has been severely nerfed; it's not seeing double damage on targets with FF up anymore.
UB is the obvious choice in my book when you look at it mathematically.
BTW, I've never personally done a HB over 5k, and my AP is ~3100 self-buffed.
Rime procs on IT; you use IT once in this spec for every two rune cycles; that's maybe one free HB every 20 secs.
UB is up full-time if you use it once in a 20 sec cycle.
UB's damage (I've personally never taken the skill) is supposedly ~250 per sec.
250 * 20 = 5000. You'd have to have HB give you a crit for 5k every single time you use it in order for it to equal UB.
And I have a feeling that's a little on the low side for UB damage for geared DKs.
Also consider that UB is an AoE; so while you're in a trash pack with it up, you're doing more damage.
Also consider that HB's damage has been severely nerfed; it's not seeing double damage on targets with FF up anymore.
UB is the obvious choice in my book when you look at it mathematically.
BTW, I've never personally done a HB over 5k, and my AP is ~3100 self-buffed.
11 posts
Well since you put it that way lol...
I never really speced unholy so I cant really say much about UB it just seemed like another DnD to me. Just less costly. Thanks for clearing those up for me as well.
On another note have you played around with an unholy speced PvP build I was puting one together but remembered you said BcB and necrosis are worthless where would you put those points to get further down in the build?
Spelling
Edited, Mar 18th 2009 7:26am by highlandr
I never really speced unholy so I cant really say much about UB it just seemed like another DnD to me. Just less costly. Thanks for clearing those up for me as well.
On another note have you played around with an unholy speced PvP build I was puting one together but remembered you said BcB and necrosis are worthless where would you put those points to get further down in the build?
Spelling
Edited, Mar 18th 2009 7:26am by highlandr
I'm playing Unholy right now in arena (shadowfrost to be exact), which specializes in IT damage and getting Gargoyle out quickly.
In 3.1, the build is getting a tremendous nerf, though. We're losing the Glyph of Blood Boil, which procs a 50% snare on everyone within 20 yards of you that has a disease up on getting hit with Blood Boil.
Without that snare, I don't know how the build will fare.
I'm looking into this build for 3.1 PvP. Glyph of Blood Boil is being changed to Glyph of Heart Strike; HS procs a 50% snare on your target now, which is undispelable. With the DRW glyph, DRW can be up for ~45 secs at a time, and with a 1.5 min cooldown, that's a lot of extra damage, despite the 50% damage nerf.
Shadowfrost may be ok, but I'm unsure.
In 3.1, the build is getting a tremendous nerf, though. We're losing the Glyph of Blood Boil, which procs a 50% snare on everyone within 20 yards of you that has a disease up on getting hit with Blood Boil.
Without that snare, I don't know how the build will fare.
I'm looking into this build for 3.1 PvP. Glyph of Blood Boil is being changed to Glyph of Heart Strike; HS procs a 50% snare on your target now, which is undispelable. With the DRW glyph, DRW can be up for ~45 secs at a time, and with a 1.5 min cooldown, that's a lot of extra damage, despite the 50% damage nerf.
Shadowfrost may be ok, but I'm unsure.
I'm really going to miss 16k Howlings. Q + Q = QQ
To be fair, that mega-hit was probably on Thad or something.. but still.... ZOMG!
Anyhoo... Right now UB is looking much, much better than the new, nerfed-into-the-floor HB in 3.1 for raiding. But with the math still being adjusted, nothing is for certain. Honestly, I'm predicting a solid nerf-bat whack to UB before we go live (and probably to the glyph as well) and a slight buff to HB.
But suppose that they offered equal damage over the same amount of time. What then? Well...
UB offers a softer threat profile due to its AoE + DoT-iness compared to the onslaught of a "hey, let's start with an HB crit." Your tanks will appreciate you not diverting them from the dumb mages who are STILL CASTING! Why are you still casting you %&*$...... um... sorry... back to topic...
UB is fire and forget RP dumpage making it very flexible regarding when you want to use it, HB eats up one of your rotation slots in a much less flexible way. Toss in the glyph for it and it's even more uptime on your primary target with single-mob abilities while at the same time loading up the meters with your AoE sweetness.
UB is very cheap at 40 RP (um, what, couple of Oblits?) whereas HB takes out a FU combo and cannot currently return death runes for other uses. This, if nothing else, would be the best reason: It's just less demanding on our resources.
The 0/50/21 variations I'm looking into are basically single-target frost builds with the happy utility of UB on the side with some of the benefits of early Unholy. But right now it's still early to declare anything as more than experimental.
In the end, yeah, I still love seeing all those perty numbers when I slap my HB down on slimes or zombie gaggles. And yes, I'm going to miss it. But better is better and right now UB is better.
Let's see if it lasts. =)
To be fair, that mega-hit was probably on Thad or something.. but still.... ZOMG!
Anyhoo... Right now UB is looking much, much better than the new, nerfed-into-the-floor HB in 3.1 for raiding. But with the math still being adjusted, nothing is for certain. Honestly, I'm predicting a solid nerf-bat whack to UB before we go live (and probably to the glyph as well) and a slight buff to HB.
But suppose that they offered equal damage over the same amount of time. What then? Well...
UB offers a softer threat profile due to its AoE + DoT-iness compared to the onslaught of a "hey, let's start with an HB crit." Your tanks will appreciate you not diverting them from the dumb mages who are STILL CASTING! Why are you still casting you %&*$...... um... sorry... back to topic...
UB is fire and forget RP dumpage making it very flexible regarding when you want to use it, HB eats up one of your rotation slots in a much less flexible way. Toss in the glyph for it and it's even more uptime on your primary target with single-mob abilities while at the same time loading up the meters with your AoE sweetness.
UB is very cheap at 40 RP (um, what, couple of Oblits?) whereas HB takes out a FU combo and cannot currently return death runes for other uses. This, if nothing else, would be the best reason: It's just less demanding on our resources.
The 0/50/21 variations I'm looking into are basically single-target frost builds with the happy utility of UB on the side with some of the benefits of early Unholy. But right now it's still early to declare anything as more than experimental.
In the end, yeah, I still love seeing all those perty numbers when I slap my HB down on slimes or zombie gaggles. And yes, I'm going to miss it. But better is better and right now UB is better.
Let's see if it lasts. =)
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