SoB/SotM Recoil Damage ThreadFollow

It only matters because some (see also: most) of the people here responded with why they didn't really feel that the recoil from SoB/SotM was that big of an issue and your response was to start up with the namecalling and other associated idiocy.

Ret paladins are not a class in of themselves. They are first and foremost paladins, and in WoW, a paladin is a hybrid class. If you want to put up more than "mid-table" numbers, you need to roll a pure dps class...it's just that simple. If you maintain an extremely narrow view where all you look at in terms of your contribution to a raid group is your dps at the end of an encounter/run, then ya...losing health as part and parcel of using your best dps seal/judgement would seem like an unreasonable penalty. If, however, you look at everything else you bring to a raid group (especially passive healing from JoL and DS in this case), it's really not that big of a deal.

The extra healing you require due to damage from your seal/judgements is (more than) offset by the reduced amount of spot healing that needs to be done on anyone attacking a target you've judged. I asked you to site which encounter/phase resulted in an 11k recoil burst to a ret pally judging Blood/Martyr and you avoided it, preferring instead to call names and basically make an *** of yourself. All that leaves me to go on is the likely assumption that you're referring to a gimmick that gives the player a significant damage boost, ergo the large boost to recoil damage, and it's in that case where the solution becomes extremely simple: learn the fights, and don't do stupid things like judge Blood/Martyr on targets when you've got a damage multiplier in place that will make soaking the recoil a risky proposition.

When the vast majority of people in a thread express respectful opinions contrary to your own and your best response is to call them names and insult their intelligence, you're disrespecting the community. If you have so little respect for the community that namecalling and other related nonsense is the best you have to offer, why the hell are you here?

You'll note that a couple of other people in this thread voiced opposition to the recoil from SoB/SotM, but they didn't let the response to their opinion devolve into idiocy. You created this situation yourself. The only question that leaves is whether or not you're man enough to acknowledge it and either smarten up or bugger off...either option would be fine in my books.

It's been explained to you that just because a conversation took place on Elitist Jerks doesn't mean anything. Elitist Jerks is no longer any more reliable than any other fansite. I could go over their right now, register, and make a post that was the direct opposite of everything I know about prot pallies. There would be absolutely nothing stopping me from doing so, and if I padded it with enough ********* I'm sure I could get any number of prot pallies resentful of the magic DR other classes get (for example) as justification to create an enormous debate over nothing. There would be no substance whatsoever to a thread like that, but by your logic it would be enlightening simply by virtue of the fact that the discussion took place on EJ.

You have a very narrow view, not only of your class/spec and the role you fill in a group, but also of this concept some people call "objectivity." You might want to look into both at some point...preferably sooner rather than later.

I have to admit though...I missed it the first couple of read-throughs but I did get a chuckle out of your post about how you rated someone down for using the expression, "QQ". Mostly because you lost your ability to rate posts a few weeks ago when another one of your tirades against reason trounced your personal karma score. Of course, I don't expect you to understand that.

No you didn't, ya blithering ninny.

You posted here to draw attention to a thread on the o-boards. The topic of that thread was the recoil from SoB/SotM. People reading that thread didn't agree with its premise for one reason or another. They posted why here. You had a temper tantrum and started calling people down for their opinions because they are contrary to yours.



Really? Then why did you post this:



and



So in other words, you're choked that the best you can muster is "mid-table" dps (aka: QQ need moar dps pl0x) and part of that dps comes at the expense of a trivial amount of health (excluding gimmicks).

Riiiiiiight.



If you've got a prot paladin or a holy paladin in your group and you're judging Wisdom, you're a ******* ******. Period. JoL is the primary choice for ret paladins who actually have a clue. Prot paladins used to lay claim to JoL because there was a little omission in the code that let us generate threat from the passive healing provided by people attacking the targets we judged. That bonus threat was taken away and now it's typically considered standard procedure to let the ret pally judge Light because they produce the most healing from it. Other people have said so in this thread. Of course, you only beak off, you don't read. Now you know. So get over your ignorant self, close your mouth, open your mind, and learn.



Here, allow me to bold and capitalize it for emphasis for you since you appear to be glossing over it:

IF JUDGING SOB/SOTM WITH A GIMMICK DAMAGE BUFF IS GOING TO PRODUCE A RECOIL THAT IS GOING TO CAUSE AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF DAMAGE, DON'T JUDGE SOB/SOTM. RE-SEAL SOMETHING ELSE UNTIL THE BUFF IS GONE OR YOU'VE GOT THE HEALTH TO SUSTAIN THE RECOIL.

Also known as: think for yourself, be dynamic (as opposed to a lazy twunt) and adjust your approach to suit the situation instead of expecting Blizzard to adjust the situation to suit you.

Savvy?



Oh no, they've grasped the crux of the message. They've responded here regarding why they don't support the crux of the OP's message in the o-boards thread. What is it about that that you're having a hard time understanding? I'm sorry...you may be willing to debase yourself to participate in o-boards idiocy, but I'm not. I'm not wasting the time to log in and cast my lot with that churning mass of adolescent retardation. You brought up the topic here, people are responding to it here. If you don't want people to respond here, don't start threads here. Just because you don't want it discussed here doesn't reflect in any way on the intelligence of anyone responding here. It's not your ******* forum, and it couldn't be made more clear to you that neither your attitude nor your "expertise" is welcome here, so knock it off or **** off. Either that, or expect to get ripped into when you post like a moron.



It is about you, because you didn't just bring the thread to the attention of these boards, you commented with your opinion on them, and when you're the OP of the thread, whether you intended it/want it or not, you are inviting feedback on your opinions. It just turns out in this case that your opinion is neither based in fact, and your supporting arguments are not more than namecalling and lame defenses for your namecalling. You're an idiot. It's just that simple.



The difference is that they can site why the information the gleaned from EJ is valid. They back up the validity of the data with logic. You back it up based on the source. Enormous, enormous difference. You've yet to offer a cogent argument to anything you've posted here. You duck, dodge, and call names. You're useless.



No. People have said the complaints in general about SoB/SotM are QQ. You connect that (like a moron) as though it's a personal attack on you and go flailing and wailing in an attempt to defend yourself against the heinous personal assault that is generalized commentary because you're too stupid to distinguish the two.



Take your own advice much?



No, you should keep your opinion for so long as you can back it up with fact and ditch your ****-poor attitude. See how that works? You can hold any number of varied opinions, but when your first response to someone who challenges that opinion in any way is to immediately (see also: immediately) start namecalling like a butthurt 9 yr old, you're going to suffer in your reputation with the community. I just found it was amusing that you claimed you had done something that you're incapable of doing. You're just full of all manner of misinformation and ignorance, aren't you?

[quote]Mate, you're a weasel. I've met some 'limp wristed' plonkers in my time, but you take the biscuit. I can live without karma, as I said, if people take some small victory from marking a subject down because they're jumped on some ill-informed bandwagon then good for them. Karma neither makes a subject right or wrong, try to remember that before you use it as a measure for some for of righteousness.
[/quote]

Sort of like you claiming to rate someone down for using the expression, "QQ"?

******* hypocrite.

Final tip: OT means off topic, not whatever the hell you think it means.

That made absolutely no sense, but okay. Little of anything you say makes sense. I reckon most people are used to it by now.

Toasting with epic bread.

The recoil on SOB doesn't bother me one bit (Shammy healers anyone?) and it would be absolutely insane to cry and moan over every "unfair" thing thrust upon your class or any class. The truth is that unless something is game-breakingly wrong, it's best to roll with the punches. This game is a constant balancing act comprised of ten very heavy and oddly shaped blocks called "classes", Blizz is only just trying to make sure it all doesn't come crashing down on them.

You'd what, punch me? Stand outside my house, wave your arms around and shout really loudly? Call me names and appeal to my sense of pity?

Can you emoplode any harder? I'm curious. You seem to be testing the boundaries of man's capacity for self-humiliation.

man, i missed out on some fun today i guess... this thread continues to privide me with some laughs.



but don't worry aurelius, he won't come back with anything intelligent. just more name calling. much easier since it takes no brian power... unlike maybe showing some math, citing real situations rather than unreferenced 11k recoils, maybe showing some WWS that contradict the WWS reports i showed that SUPPORTED MY VIEW..



hmm, to be very honest, even if i'm the only pally present, i still use JoL. i think i've gotten to a point in a boss fight where i actually ran out of mana maybe 2 or 3 times... every time its because i got sidetracked (text messages while raiding are a bad idea, trust me) and forgot to use DP on cooldown. and yes, when i get low, i'll use JoW for a bit to help get enough mana to dps again. if you're using the abilities you've been given as a pally and still running out of mana, there's something wrong. JotW + DP + just a little healing = plenty of mana for a ret pally using Judgement, CS, DS, Ex, and occassional Cons. if you prioritize them like that then you'll be using your most mana efficient abilities when they're off cooldown and you'll probably find that maybe consecrate won't be up all the time.... but you'll almost always be hitting some ability and you'll be doing ok on mana. you'll be getting low, but you'll last the duration of any fight in naxx unless your raid just plain sucks. I won't even comment on the likelihood of that if they're letting you raid with them... If you have another pally there to give you JoW and BoW then you'll never have mana problems again...



um, noone here is denying that there is recoil damage from SoB... not sure what you meant by proving it to us. I'm pretty sure every paladin here knows that every time we do damage w/ Seal or Judgement of Blood or the Martyr we deal damage back to ourselves... but i think you mean why do you need to prove it's a problem, and just failed the grammar test. ;) that's fine. fortunately for you this isn't a spelling and grammar forum. yes, if i was worthy of any "high position" (not sure when the last time i ran for president of the pally forums was though and i don't remember aurelius ever saying he was king here so i don't know what high position you're referring to) i would look at the mathematical calculations on WWS. wait a sec... I DID! and i linked it here... um, hmm, isn't that curious. maybe i am worthy after all. i'll be running for alla pally forum president next time the its election season... ;) but on the other hand, when i did link it and it supported what i was saying, did you ever manage to show me a WWS that disagreed or validated the viewpoint you have spent so much time defending? i thought not.



i loved that one. last i checked when i open my character sheet, i don't see "Seal of Blood" anywhere in my stats. ;) pretty sure you mean it's our primary ability. or maybe spell. just got a laugh out of that right after you essentially called aurelius stupid...



i know... i read your stupidity and i feel like it's making me stupider. i mean, look at this post, i haven't used a single bit of math. and i love me some good argument proving math :)



lol, you're disrespecting people who have been making a serious and INTELLIGENT contribution to the Paladin forums here on allakhazam for quite a while. Tommyguns, RuenBahamat and Aurelius have posted quite intelligently on the topic of Retribution Paladins. They have all proved themselves to be worth listening to. disagreeing with them is perfectly alright. debating with them is fine. disrespecting them and calling them names is not alright.



...... and you know what about debate? oh, that's right. nothing. most of us have debated issues before. i think about the only poster here who uses name calling in his arguements is Bohdi. But he is one of our most experienced paladins and even when he's name calling he's usually bringing up good points. sometimes i still disagree with him after the debate. but such is life. overall though most of the posters here have managed to debeate issues without resorting to name calling as our primary arguement which is the weakest of tactics. it's a last resort tactic when you know you've been beat to try by whatever means possible to sway the opinions of some listener or reader out there. it doesn't work though, i'm sorry to say.



most of us do respect many of the posters at EJ. i definitely read EJ pally threads to better understand my ret pally. does that mean i agree with everyone there? no. but i bet you beleive everything you read just cause some books are good don't you? wait. i mean everything you see on tv... doubt you read much since you've said a few times here that reading is hard for you.



i literaly almost died when i read that. i had to walk away so i couldn't see it or i might never have stopped laughing. you have the most closed mind i've seen in a long time. nothing you have "shown" or "written over and over" has indicated that you had an open mind. you posted over and over that sure we can disagree with you but it means we are stupid, ignorant or unwilling to accept the truth which is whatever you say it is. admitting that you cannot control other peoples ability to disagree with you is not the same as having an open mind.

all in all though, you've given me a reason to come back to the allakhazam forums more than once a week. i've been a little absent here as i've been more focused on work and having a real life again lately and of course my free time here at home has been on wow rather than the forums. but i had missed the forums so thankyou for bringing me back :) can we possibly end this name calling thread now though? i think we've established enough times that this topic is going to bring out the worst in you.

perhaps it's time to start fresh. post a new thread on a topic we can discuss and lets try to pretend you never showed your @$$ like this. maybe your next try will redeem you and we can welcome you more willingly to the pally community here. i don't hold a grudge (can't promise that for everyone else here) so if you can prove that you can have intelligent discussion without name calling i'm always willing to forget a rough start. we don't always have to agree. but if you don't agree with us, maybe try a more civil tone and intelligent arguments and we'll be able to respectfully disagree. we might even see that you have a valid point or that the best position is somewhere between our PoV and your PoV and we'll all come to a compromise.. positive interaction like that IS possible and makes everyone feel all warm and fuzzy inside. name calling only makes people mad and honestly, won't make you feel good about yourself or anyone else in the end. more importantly, positive interaction like that helps us all to be better paladins, while name calling, never has done that. just something to chew on.

no you wont. your psych profile is so textbook. your need for self-indulgence trumps your discipline anyday.

right now, you are reading this and you are powerless. if you post, you prove your weakness. if you dont post, you deny yourself any feeling of gratification you get from the delusion of thinking you are right.

this is the 2nd time you have 'threaten' to leave the thread which you started. your next post will be "Whatever, I don't care." but you do care. have fun.

You realise you just proved him totally correct?

Douchebag.

I'm sticking my nose in because my main happens to be a paladin, and because you happen to be posting in the paladin forums and insulting some very knowledgeable players, most of whom were posting when I arrived and none of whom are exceptionally mean people. I'd been following some of your posts after your first rant a few weeks ago, and was beginning to think that I'd maybe misjudged you a little. But this thread basically confirms my initial impression that you're just a giant douche to be totally true! It's more of an ego boost than I could ever give myself.

This isn't a Hobson's choice scenario we're presenting you with, Goggy. Post well and be treated well, post badly and be treated badly, or don't post at all, and save us all the trouble. You're unwilling to post well, and apparently totally incapable of not posting, so you're basically ******* yourself over.

I'll use a helpful metaphor. It's as if you've been presented with a brick wall blocking your path. Instead of climbing over the wall, or looking for a different path, you've been beating your worthless skull against it and then telling the bricks how stupid they are.