So recently, we've received an influx of people asking questions, and in the past few days we've gotten threads such as this, and most of my posts have been telling people to go look at the sticky.
Then someone, who isn't a regular to these parts (can't think of a better word), comes in and says "I don't agree with you, stop yelling at these people, that's all you "elitists" do." Multiple times. Over and over again. I don't care AT ALL for the Karma system (so don't direct me to site feedback), but when all of my posts relevant to the subject at hand in OTHER threads, maybe me analyzing a WWS, whatever, get Sub-Defaulted, it makes me wonder.
Why am I posting it here instead of a more relevant area, you might be asking? I'll tell you. So I go to look at my posts, and I that I yell at some person to look at the sticky, around a week or two ago. I did that before too, probably for more than a year. Its rated Excellent (Therefore, someone must agree with me). Then weeks go on, Xsarus/Aethien are saying tone it down, the other guys like Zebug, Rinkkel, just random regular guys, are all agreeing on the stupidity of people asking questions that could be found in the Sticky's index. But if someone from some other board see's me flipping out, decides to rate me down, sees me in another thread, and does the same (with complete lack of apparent reason), because they have developed some hatred, or vendetta against me, what's the point?
I realize that this is going to sound like more drama that these boards don't need, or me complaining about the Karma system, but it isn't. Sure, a bunch of you are going to come in and say "You yelled at them you had it coming", go ahead, not what I'm hinting at.
I'M JUST TRYING TO SAY THAT WE NEED A CONCRETE SOLUTION FOR THE PROBLEM OF NEW/UNINFORMED MEMBERS DISREGARDING THE STICKIES AT THE TOP.
I'm ready for flames, but if anyone wants to offer ME suggestions of what I/other regulars should start doing, then I would be grateful.
Edited, Mar 11th 2009 2:42pm by Yuppley
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Unfortunately the only solution that doesn't depend upon people behaving themselves, is for the Hunter forum to have a dedicated moderator who can merge threads into the Help Me section, lock useless threads, and modify members' signatures to read "I spammed the Hunter forum and got eaten by a Ravager!"
Not gonna happen.
Also, isn't the first rule of the karma system that nobody talks about the karma system?
Not gonna happen.
Also, isn't the first rule of the karma system that nobody talks about the karma system?
The solution is to get as many posts as the gruff people like me so that you can get rated down until the idiots get carpal tunnel from red-arrowing and still not lose a point in your average karma. 
Quote:
But if someone from some other board see's me flipping out, decides to rate me down, sees me in another thread, and does the same (with complete lack of apparent reason), because they have developed some hatred, or vendetta against me, what's the point?
Someone cares about forum karma?
Rate down. I smell blood in the water.
isyris wrote:
Also, isn't the first rule of the karma system that nobody talks about the karma system?
Yes it is. Interestingly, the second rule is - if you have any questions, refer to rule one.
"the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
I thought the first rule was:
#1. Always bring your towel.
#1. Always bring your towel.
Everyone should always have a towel. I've noticed in the past that when I tell someone off who happens to be a scholar I usually get rated down a few times in unrelated threads. Stupid, but unless it goes on for a while I'm not going to do anything, and it usually doesn't.
My usual approach to stupid questions is to give a polite referral to the sticky. If they're stupid, then it can be a flame thread. They are fun.
My usual approach to stupid questions is to give a polite referral to the sticky. If they're stupid, then it can be a flame thread. They are fun.
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You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
RPZip wrote:
Quote:
But if someone from some other board see's me flipping out, decides to rate me down, sees me in another thread, and does the same (with complete lack of apparent reason), because they have developed some hatred, or vendetta against me, what's the point?
Someone admits they care about forum karma?
Rate down. I smell blood in the water.
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
Xsarus wrote:
I've noticed in the past that when I tell someone off who happens to be a scholar I usually get rated down a few times in unrelated threads.
It's because you're a dirty liar.
I normally browse with the default filter on.
My eye was caught by the silliness of the "Melee hunter guide" thread so I noticed when it disappeared.
Obviously I swapped to "not filtered" and we have a lot more threads going sub-default here than in most other class forums.
Either we're being carpet-bombed or some people have an astonishingly low threshold for even mildly non-raid, non-endgame discussions.
This thread on the main forum got answered very kindly and helpfully without any recourse to insults or even any reference to the Hunter FAQ.
I've been posting on Allakhazam for 8 or 9 years now and the tolerance of newbie questions seems to have diminished considerably.
Now the FAQ is brilliant, especially with all the work that went into updating it for WotLK, and I really appreciate the effort that went into it. But for a new player there is so much there it can be a bit overwhelming. And of course there is inevitably a lot there that is irrelevant to a new player simply because the talents or abilities mentioned are not available to them. It took me 3 reads to get the answer to a problem the other day and I knew what I was looking for!
It is certainly a perfectly valid response to tell people to read the FAQ but it takes about the same amount of time to answer a simple question.
Unless of course it is "Which is the best pet?" - in which case flame away
My eye was caught by the silliness of the "Melee hunter guide" thread so I noticed when it disappeared.
Obviously I swapped to "not filtered" and we have a lot more threads going sub-default here than in most other class forums.
Either we're being carpet-bombed or some people have an astonishingly low threshold for even mildly non-raid, non-endgame discussions.
This thread on the main forum got answered very kindly and helpfully without any recourse to insults or even any reference to the Hunter FAQ.
I've been posting on Allakhazam for 8 or 9 years now and the tolerance of newbie questions seems to have diminished considerably.
Now the FAQ is brilliant, especially with all the work that went into updating it for WotLK, and I really appreciate the effort that went into it. But for a new player there is so much there it can be a bit overwhelming. And of course there is inevitably a lot there that is irrelevant to a new player simply because the talents or abilities mentioned are not available to them. It took me 3 reads to get the answer to a problem the other day and I knew what I was looking for!
It is certainly a perfectly valid response to tell people to read the FAQ but it takes about the same amount of time to answer a simple question.
Unless of course it is "Which is the best pet?" - in which case flame away
Wherever I go - there I am.
Klagoth wrote:
I thought the first rule was:
#1. Always bring your towel.
#1. Always bring your towel.
I rate up for any Hitchhiker resets in these forums.
And ohhh noooo, I was mentioned in a Yuppley post....I've now been marked for death.
Something that just dawned on me is that I try to help huntards out in the game much quicker than I do here, think its because I just figure one of you will help out here. Eventhough I'm level 80 and I think I know my class pretty well, I know I am not in the same league as others on this board...for one, I've never done arena or raids...or heroics for that matter.
Just the other day, I saw an 80 hunter when I was on my lock. He had strength gear, spell damage, expertise and defense. I begged him to come here and just read everything he can. Also gave him a few free WotLK enchants (though the stupid WoW karma gods didn't even give me a skill up on yellow enchants and I was being nice @!#$@#%Q$%) I hope he didn't come here and we chased him away:(
Cobra101 wrote:
I've been posting on Allakhazam for 8 or 9 years now and the tolerance of newbie questions seems to have diminished considerably.
Now the FAQ is brilliant, especially with all the work that went into updating it for WotLK, and I really appreciate the effort that went into it. But for a new player there is so much there it can be a bit overwhelming. And of course there is inevitably a lot there that is irrelevant to a new player simply because the talents or abilities mentioned are not available to them. It took me 3 reads to get the answer to a problem the other day and I knew what I was looking for!
It is certainly a perfectly valid response to tell people to read the FAQ but it takes about the same amount of time to answer a simple question.
Unless of course it is "Which is the best pet?" - in which case flame away
Hmm I posted an angry retort to an ***** answer given to a non premium, few posts hunter with a simple question. He got shot down with the "read the FAQ *$&*$&%"
I got a bit annoyed at that point because you see it so often and it is just not fair. How would that ***** person feel if they were new to the forum and asked a simple question yet got abuse? (Of course they would answer, "I am so smart that I would have read the FAQ" well we are not all uber brains Mr *******
So I got angry and posted angry stuff and that I was dissapointed how much the forum had changed to new people and that it seemed a little elitism was creeping in. (By the way, I do apologise for how I worded that retort, it was a little below the belt and could have been said better, I was a little knackered at the time, baby boy is teething and I have forgotten what sleep is, although he does like sitting on my lap and watching me do Naxx LOL!!!)
I got shot down, oh boy did I get shot down, how dare I express an opinion in this forum, but your post above show me that I am not the only one that is feeling this way.
I got in touch with Darq and said "that is it, I wont renew my premium", (hurrahs from most of you no doubt), I told Darq why and that was that. My premium helps pay for this site and forum, how many possible new premium members have been turned away by such nasty answers as "Read the FAQ *&%*&%"? Oh well, such is life lol If it continues, as I said to Darq, you will end up with a forum of all the same people chewing over the same topics and hating the same things and really accomplishing nothing other than wasting time.
(The FAQ by the way is a good peice of work, one of the truly great Hunter guides, be a shame if less and less people read it or contributed to it because they get put off coming here so a big thank you to those who wrote and contributed to it, along with advice from some of you on here and that FAQ I am the hunter I am today).
Just my gentle two cents worth, without naming names or being nasty I hope. Let us build a friendlier hunter forum, make me renew my premium membership.
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 9:52am by Morganne
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 9:54am by Morganne
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 9:55am by Morganne
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 9:56am by Morganne
Morganne wrote:
(The FAQ by the way is a good peice of work, one of the truly great Hunter guides, be a shame if less and less people read it or contributed to it because they get put off coming here so a big thank you to those who wrote and contributed to it, along with advice from some of you on here and that FAQ I am the hunter I am today).
It goes in cycles. The forum is usually pretty calm and helpful, then we'll have a surge of really basic questions, and repeated questions that showed people didn't even skim over the topic on the front page and people start to snap a bit. Then it dies down, and will repeat some other time. If you're taking support away from a good website because one post got your panties in a twist I don't know what to say. Reading over your post you got shot down due to the tone of your post, not the content.
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
Morganne wrote:
Cobra101 wrote:
I've been posting on Allakhazam for 8 or 9 years now and the tolerance of newbie questions seems to have diminished considerably.
Now the FAQ is brilliant, especially with all the work that went into updating it for WotLK, and I really appreciate the effort that went into it. But for a new player there is so much there it can be a bit overwhelming. And of course there is inevitably a lot there that is irrelevant to a new player simply because the talents or abilities mentioned are not available to them. It took me 3 reads to get the answer to a problem the other day and I knew what I was looking for!
It is certainly a perfectly valid response to tell people to read the FAQ but it takes about the same amount of time to answer a simple question.
Unless of course it is "Which is the best pet?" - in which case flame away
Hmm I posted an angry retort to an ***** answer given to a non premium, few posts hunter with a simple question. He got shot down with the "read the FAQ *$&*$&%"
I got a bit annoyed at that point because you see it so often and it is just not fair. How would that ***** person feel if they were new to the forum and asked a simple question yet got abuse? (Of course they would answer, "I am so smart that I would have read the FAQ" well we are not all uber brains Mr *******
So I got angry and posted angry stuff and that I was dissapointed how much the forum had changed to new people and that it seemed a little elitism was creeping in. (By the way, I do apologise for how I worded that retort, it was a little below the belt and could have been said better, I was a little knackered at the time, baby boy is teething and I have forgotten what sleep is, although he does like sitting on my lap and watching me do Naxx LOL!!!)
I got shot down, oh boy did I get shot down, how dare I express an opinion in this forum, but your post above show me that I am not the only one that is feeling this way.
I got in touch with Darq and said "that is it, I wont renew my premium", (hurrahs from most of you no doubt), I told Darq why and that was that. My premium helps pay for this site and forum, how many possible new premium members have been turned away by such nasty answers as "Read the FAQ *&%*&%"? Oh well, such is life lol If it continues, as I said to Darq, you will end up with a forum of all the same people chewing over the same topics and hating the same things and really accomplishing nothing other than wasting time.
(The FAQ by the way is a good peice of work, one of the truly great Hunter guides, be a shame if less and less people read it or contributed to it because they get put off coming here so a big thank you to those who wrote and contributed to it, along with advice from some of you on here and that FAQ I am the hunter I am today).
Just my gentle two cents worth, without naming names or being nasty I hope. Let us build a friendlier hunter forum, make me renew my premium membership.
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 9:52am by Morganne
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 9:54am by Morganne
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 9:55am by Morganne
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 9:56am by Morganne
Cut the drama whoring. Dropping your premium has zero impact on the way these boards are handled for two reasons:
1.) The forums are free, premium or not.
2.) Allakhazam staff are not responsible for the postings of their members. (Though they are responsible for ensuring the place remains within the confines of the rules they set forth. At present those rules do not include requiring every post to spout rays of sunshine.)
You're either acutely aware of both of these or woefully ignorant.
Your removal of your premium has turned you into nothing more than a bandwidth leech with a chip on her shoulder.
Regarding the matter of just answering the simple questions instead of telling people to read the FAQ...
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime. -Author unknown
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 11:01am by Norellicus
Quote:
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime
This totally fails to account for human nature.
The reality is :- Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, give him a net - and he will play football with the fish.
Wherever I go - there I am.
Cobra101 wrote:
Quote:
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime
This totally fails to account for human nature.
The reality is :- Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, give him a net - and he will play football with the fish.
Only if he's british.
Overlord Norellicus wrote:
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime. -Author unknown
Well, Robin Williams is rumored to have said - Give a man a fish, he eats for a day; but give him a stick of dynamite and soon the village will be littered with tiny pieces of raw fish.
Anyway, back to the subject at hand. The downside to flaming someone for asking a question that is in the FAQ is that it is unlikely to have any effect on the next someone who saunters in and does the same, unless that person has at least lurked some. But generally if the person has lurked s/he will know about the FAQ and will use it.
So, even if 1 out of 10 people who get flamed is the type of person who could wind up being a good contributor, flaming may tend to turn them off to the Allakhazam experience and a potentially good contributor is lost. The group loses. In the end the flaming serves the sole purpose of giving the regular contributors a chance to blow off steam built up from seeing the same posts over and over, and over.
The question then becomes "Does the group as a whole prefer to encourage new contributors (I know - this is not the only way to do that, but it is one way) by sucking it up and giving an answer with a pointed, but moderately so, referral to the FAQ (as I have seen Xsarus and a couple of others do)?" If not, then the group should flame these posts. If so, then the group should try to be more tolerant of them.
For my part, I'm not a regular contributor in this particular class forum so I don't know that my vote would mean much. My opinion though, is that we all started somewhere and it was without knowledge. I was attracted to Allakhazam years ago because I found many helpful people here. They explained to posters asking dumb questions what the fish analogy alludes to - that giving you the answer does not make you a better player, it makes you a lazier player. That helping you find the answer helps you learn how to find more information, leading you to become a better player. But they always pointed in the direction leading to the answer, be it the FAQ, a guide on this forum, or another resource.
"the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
It has occurred to me that the best solution to simple questions may be not to link to the FAQ, but rather to quote the FAQ in a post, with a link afterwards.
For example:
Help I tamed a big mean bear but he's tiny now! What did I do wrong?
Actually, that's a very common question here. According to the FAQ:
(Hmm, looking through the FAQ I noticed a couple other things that seemed to be missing. What is the policy on suggesting changes/additions?)
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 12:02pm by isyris
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 12:32pm by isyris
For example:
Help I tamed a big mean bear but he's tiny now! What did I do wrong?
Actually, that's a very common question here. According to the FAQ:
Quote:
Insert quote from FAQ here--to be honest, I couldn't find one -edit, okay, now I know where it is, I really need to run a search instead of just skimming through- However this still serves to illustrate the format I am suggesting.
(Hmm, looking through the FAQ I noticed a couple other things that seemed to be missing. What is the policy on suggesting changes/additions?)
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 12:02pm by isyris
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 12:32pm by isyris
isyris wrote:
(Hmm, looking through the FAQ I noticed a couple other things that seemed to be missing. What is the policy on suggesting changes/additions?)
Then PM me or post it in the FAQ.
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
isyris wrote:
(Hmm, looking through the FAQ I noticed a couple other things that seemed to be missing. What is the policy on suggesting changes/additions?)
Then PM me or post it in the FAQ.
Ya know, Emperors with a good sense of humor are so hard to find nowadays. But I guess what with all those liberals running around demanding no more torturing people for fun, no more having people executed on a whim and whatnot, it must be pretty tough for Emperors to find things to keep themselves laughing.
"the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Cobra101 wrote:
I've been posting on Allakhazam for 8 or 9 years now and the tolerance of newbie questions seems to have diminished considerably.
I would agree with this to a certain extent. What I have noticed is that there are certain people who are very vocal on all of the Alla forums who tend to make *ahem* 'harsh' posts. Since it's the same people all the time, I can only assume that this is a quirk of their personality and not necessarily directed at the OP. Nevertheless, this can be very intimidating for a newbie who desperately needs information but doesn't want to be flamed for asking a 'stupid' question.
I think Isyris' idea of quoting and linking the FAQs in a response is a good one. It is certainly more civilized than flaming someone. Besides, if you really think someone's question is that stupid, you're not obligated to respond to it. Sometimes knowing when to keep your mouth shut is the best thing of all.
Seriously, mystery person who likes red buttons? You took offense to my jesting previous post? Or are you just rating down out of spite?
Here's another one for you, if you want...feeding time! Have fun not moving my 6k posts' karma.
Edit: lol don't know my own postcount
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 6:00pm by Norellicus
Here's another one for you, if you want...feeding time! Have fun not moving my 6k posts' karma.
Edit: lol don't know my own postcount
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 6:00pm by Norellicus
Cobra101 wrote:
I've been posting on Allakhazam for 8 or 9 years now and the tolerance of newbie questions seems to have diminished considerably.
I call it the RPZip, Theophany, and Aethien effect.
It's for the better; with the sheer amount of information available now in the stickies of each class forum (thanks to the three noted previously in my post), and with people like Aethien, Xsarus, myself, Therion, RPZip, and a few others posting as much a we do, the odds of not finding information that you used to be able to ask about is pretty much nil.
When the information is readily available, it's irritating to the people that take hours to gather the information and write it down in an easily legible form when the question that's covered quite in-depth in either an FAQ or the wiki is asked in a thread by a total noob.
whining about karma = red button.
Seriously, if you think you're being ratecamped PM an admin, else it's probably just that you posted something stupid.
Seriously, if you think you're being ratecamped PM an admin, else it's probably just that you posted something stupid.
I wasn't whining :(
I was winning.
Because I'm awesome.
I was winning.
Because I'm awesome.
I haven't seen a large amount of venom spewed at a newbies recently but there will always be 'colorful' comments or incredibly terse comments directed at someone who fails to even scan the top few posts. I don't blame anyone for their frustration, and venting a little on a newbie with a "read the sticky" comment isn't a hideous thing. Unloading on them for paragraphs IS a hideous thing.
When an admin slaps someone, they tend to realize they took it too far, and sometimes even another 'regular' can calm them down or get them to back off. We all should know when we go overboard. I'm all for keeping the admins happy with the Hunter Forum.
I value the experience and patience I recieved from the 'regulars' when I first began posting. I tried to leave my ego out of it and respect the fact that I was 'ascending the mountain' and asking for help. If I came in with tons of attitude and ego, I think I could expect the same back. When I see that, I sit back and let the fireworks start <pass the popcorn>.
I still have nothing but respect for those on this board and rather than 'counter' a frustrated rant by a regular (who knows what kind of day they've had, I know I have gawdawful ones) I'll just post a short request for the newbie to visit the sticky and give them as brief of an answer as I can so they'll visit the sticky looking for more detailed information.
When an admin slaps someone, they tend to realize they took it too far, and sometimes even another 'regular' can calm them down or get them to back off. We all should know when we go overboard. I'm all for keeping the admins happy with the Hunter Forum.
I value the experience and patience I recieved from the 'regulars' when I first began posting. I tried to leave my ego out of it and respect the fact that I was 'ascending the mountain' and asking for help. If I came in with tons of attitude and ego, I think I could expect the same back. When I see that, I sit back and let the fireworks start <pass the popcorn>.
I still have nothing but respect for those on this board and rather than 'counter' a frustrated rant by a regular (who knows what kind of day they've had, I know I have gawdawful ones) I'll just post a short request for the newbie to visit the sticky and give them as brief of an answer as I can so they'll visit the sticky looking for more detailed information.
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