Defense Squeeze In the Transition between Heroic and T7 gear.
I have 5 blue pieces left – A tanking sword I got somewhere and the Dark Iron Shoulders from Boss1 in H.HoL. My rings are Blue, but with good defense – WTB the Earthguard one. My trinkets are weak – I have the 1st War ‘Dodge’ trinket from badges and then nothing. I got something that increases my health, I still have the Def Trinket from the Overlord quest, I have random greens that will add +Hit for threat.
Everything that would need Defense enchants has them. (Working on the exalted Sons of H. I have the Lesser one currently) But I have the Back, Shoulders, chest, etc…
It seems like there is a real narrowing in the amount of Defense on some gear drops.
I had blue BS gloves that had like 70 Def. My Nax Purples have nearly ½ the DEF?
I had the BS shield – Picked up the Crest of Lorderon (From H.CoS) – Less DEF
Same with my T7 Chest piece. I had the Silver something or other – Got my T7 --- Again – way less Defense.
My bank is filled with old tanking gear in the case that I might need to drop down to an old piece in order to keep 540/535 depending on Raid/Heroic.
Is it just me? I guy in my guild is in the same boat – He has better pieces that he can’t wear – because equipping the better gear would drop him into crit range.
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Losing Defense as you gear higher? Follow
This is how it kinda works out yeah, but it's nothing to worry about.
You're probably going to lose alot more def but you'll gain alot more parry, dodge and block rating. The defense you lose should be pretty much compensated by gaining some additional sockets and maybe do some more enchants. I can't see your gear so I can't say this without doubt.
So you lose a bit on defense but get alot of additional avoidance. Which will help you to get 102,4% total avoidance. It's not really neccesary but it's still nice to have.
,Zig
You're probably going to lose alot more def but you'll gain alot more parry, dodge and block rating. The defense you lose should be pretty much compensated by gaining some additional sockets and maybe do some more enchants. I can't see your gear so I can't say this without doubt.
So you lose a bit on defense but get alot of additional avoidance. Which will help you to get 102,4% total avoidance. It's not really neccesary but it's still nice to have.
,Zig
Get the trinket from Regular HOL, I'd say. Its a great item that you can switch out for more defense should it be needed instead of having to leave out a complete upgrade in STR/STAM/Mitigation/Avoidance from another item.
Other than that, I feel the same way. Blue BOE gear had loads of +defense on it so it was easy to become crit immune and start your first heroics. Many pieces have less defense rating the better they are though.
Good luck!
Other than that, I feel the same way. Blue BOE gear had loads of +defense on it so it was easy to become crit immune and start your first heroics. Many pieces have less defense rating the better they are though.
Good luck!
Raid-entry gear is loaded with Defense. I call it Blizzard's way of smacking the newbs that grab the Nerubhide Cloak early because they have "enough Defense already" for their ignorance. Defense is relatively easy to budget and neccessary for getting into raiding. The item level of raid-entry gear doesn't allow for a myriad of different stats on each piece so Defense gets the most attention. It gets you up to raid-viable quickly by boosting your avoidence a modest amount and making you crit immune.
As you've noticed how the Defense rollercoaster works, you've probably noticed that you're getting a whole #%(ton more out of some of this gear with lower Defense as well. It becomes a numbers game to maintain that crit immunity, but if you can hold it -- the higher end gear makes you a better rounded, superior tank.
As you've noticed how the Defense rollercoaster works, you've probably noticed that you're getting a whole #%(ton more out of some of this gear with lower Defense as well. It becomes a numbers game to maintain that crit immunity, but if you can hold it -- the higher end gear makes you a better rounded, superior tank.
While I knew it would happen from reading the posts here, I'm still annoyed when I'm standing in front of the T7 vendor and I suddenly realize I need to put my best shield down and pick up an old one - Just to stay 540+....
Good thing I didn't vendor off my old tanking gear...
I've been hovering around 26 - 27k base HP for about 2 weeks. Raid buff (BoK + Priests + Food + Flasks puts me at around 30k) but the DK tank in our raid usually is at 32k. I don't particularly care about his stats - but I want to be as well geared as possible.
I really need that damn red sword to drop...
Good thing I didn't vendor off my old tanking gear...
I've been hovering around 26 - 27k base HP for about 2 weeks. Raid buff (BoK + Priests + Food + Flasks puts me at around 30k) but the DK tank in our raid usually is at 32k. I don't particularly care about his stats - but I want to be as well geared as possible.
I really need that damn red sword to drop...
Blizzard has put in ridiculous trinkets to make up for the fact that emblem/raid gear has less defense but better avoidance.
Trinket from Loken in HoL: +65 Defense Rating
Trinket from Thaddeus in 10-man Naxx: +84 Defense Rating
My Prot Paladin is in almost all Purple gear. I have one defense enchant (+20 def to shield) and my defense is at 553 and my avoidance is creeping up towards 102.4
It isn't any big deal at all if you have the right defense trinket. I still have the HoL one, but I am trying to get the repelling charge from Thaddeus. The Loken trinket gives you nearly 10% of the defense rating you need by itself, the Thaddeus trinket gives you over 12% of the defense rating you need all by itself.
The head glyph from Argent Crusade adds 20 defense to your helm, the lesser SoH glyph adds 10 to shoulders. Staying at or above 689 defense rating seems tough when you first start getting upgrades, which is why everyone tells you to get the +65 DR trinket from Loken. It makes staying above 689 much easier.
Trinket from Loken in HoL: +65 Defense Rating
Trinket from Thaddeus in 10-man Naxx: +84 Defense Rating
My Prot Paladin is in almost all Purple gear. I have one defense enchant (+20 def to shield) and my defense is at 553 and my avoidance is creeping up towards 102.4
It isn't any big deal at all if you have the right defense trinket. I still have the HoL one, but I am trying to get the repelling charge from Thaddeus. The Loken trinket gives you nearly 10% of the defense rating you need by itself, the Thaddeus trinket gives you over 12% of the defense rating you need all by itself.
The head glyph from Argent Crusade adds 20 defense to your helm, the lesser SoH glyph adds 10 to shoulders. Staying at or above 689 defense rating seems tough when you first start getting upgrades, which is why everyone tells you to get the +65 DR trinket from Loken. It makes staying above 689 much easier.
You're WAYYY ahead (In terms of pure HP.. which I know isn't much but it's what you're comparing) of a buffed DK tank with 32k HP (which is actually somewhat low for a buffed DK) if you're sitting around 30k buffed. You wouldn't compare your HP to a Druid's on a 1:1 basis, why do it for a DK? The only class to class HP comparison that has even the remotest relevance is Paladin to Warrior, and even then -- it's a poor benchmark.
There's nothing wrong with the Titansteel Shield. I'd imagine it shares the same item level with the ugly emblem one and the Crest of Lordaeron. The three are all good but just itemized differently. Titansteel being defesne heavy, The Crest being stam/hit heavy and the emblem shield being a mix of the both.
I use the Titansteel for when I have to tank raid bosses (gives me that extra 5 defense that isn't paramount in heroics) and I use the Crest for heroics with an 18 stam patch on it.
I use the Titansteel for when I have to tank raid bosses (gives me that extra 5 defense that isn't paramount in heroics) and I use the Crest for heroics with an 18 stam patch on it.
My pally is in mostly iLvl 213 epics with raid buffed HP at 36.5k and my defense is just above crit immune. I have 24 defense rating from gems and if I dropped that, I wouldn't be crit immune anymore. I've also dropped a couple of defense enchants in favor of stamina (bracers) and stats (chest) for that little added boost to my health pool. My unbuffed combined avoidance is something like 103.5%. If it weren't for the whole crit immunity, I'd drop a little more avoidance in favor of stamina and count on raid buffs to keep me block capped, but being independently block capped has its merits.
Generally speaking, becoming crit immune is only the first part of gearing a tank. After that it's a tradeoff game where you balance the stat changes from one upgrade with what you can work with on others (gems/enchants) in order to maintain what you need and then (when possible ) tweak what you want. It can be frustrating at times, but I've never encountered a situation where an upgrade that dropped me below 540 defense meant that I had to downgrade to push back above the threshold.
Seal of the Pantheon will give you a lot more breathing space, and it's not that difficult to get. I'd make that a priority if even if you're doing weekly Naxx10 clears.
Generally speaking, becoming crit immune is only the first part of gearing a tank. After that it's a tradeoff game where you balance the stat changes from one upgrade with what you can work with on others (gems/enchants) in order to maintain what you need and then (when possible ) tweak what you want. It can be frustrating at times, but I've never encountered a situation where an upgrade that dropped me below 540 defense meant that I had to downgrade to push back above the threshold.
Seal of the Pantheon will give you a lot more breathing space, and it's not that difficult to get. I'd make that a priority if even if you're doing weekly Naxx10 clears.
Having at least one of the Defense trinkets is great (Loken or Thaddeus) if you get in a pinch with certain gear. Generally though you can get a whole lot more out of other trinkets most of the time. It would sure hurt to NOT have one of them for the occasional time that you really need it though.
As for the shields -- The Titansteel, Lordaeron, and Discarded Plate are all comparable. The Titansteel provides OODLES of Defense, and is usually considered the entry piece (of the three) because it doesn't give a whole lot else. Lordaeron loses some Defense for a bit of hit and it generally considered a better rounded shield. The Discarded Plate is interesting though. You lose that hit but gain the highest PURE avoidence out of all three. From a pure survivability standpoint it probably offers the most.
I CERTAINLY wouldn't worry about having to use the Titansteel Shield Wall for a while. It's a nice piece of tin.
As for the shields -- The Titansteel, Lordaeron, and Discarded Plate are all comparable. The Titansteel provides OODLES of Defense, and is usually considered the entry piece (of the three) because it doesn't give a whole lot else. Lordaeron loses some Defense for a bit of hit and it generally considered a better rounded shield. The Discarded Plate is interesting though. You lose that hit but gain the highest PURE avoidence out of all three. From a pure survivability standpoint it probably offers the most.
I CERTAINLY wouldn't worry about having to use the Titansteel Shield Wall for a while. It's a nice piece of tin.
There is one way you can buffer yourself with crit-capping; but it is cheating. Resilience.
The crit reduction from resilience is greater than, but stacks with, that from defense. It is also fairly easy to get, especially if you don't have SoH rep - go to Wintergrasp, and buy the resilience inscription for shoulders for 30 shards. That +15 resilience rating is the equivalent of about +25defense rating (IIRC) in terms to crit immunity, and might just serve as a much needed buffer to drop below 540 defense without becoming critable.
There is a downside though. A tank is *expected* to have 540 defense, and so unless you have an understanding guild, you might have a job persuading people you are actually crit-immune when your defense rating says otherwise.
Still works as a stop-gap measure though.
The crit reduction from resilience is greater than, but stacks with, that from defense. It is also fairly easy to get, especially if you don't have SoH rep - go to Wintergrasp, and buy the resilience inscription for shoulders for 30 shards. That +15 resilience rating is the equivalent of about +25defense rating (IIRC) in terms to crit immunity, and might just serve as a much needed buffer to drop below 540 defense without becoming critable.
There is a downside though. A tank is *expected* to have 540 defense, and so unless you have an understanding guild, you might have a job persuading people you are actually crit-immune when your defense rating says otherwise.
Still works as a stop-gap measure though.
Lansdowne wrote:
There is one way you can buffer yourself with crit-capping; but it is cheating. Resilience.
The crit reduction from resilience is greater than, but stacks with, that from defense. It is also fairly easy to get, especially if you don't have SoH rep - go to Wintergrasp, and buy the resilience inscription for shoulders for 30 shards. That +15 resilience rating is the equivalent of about +25defense rating (IIRC) in terms to crit immunity, and might just serve as a much needed buffer to drop below 540 defense without becoming critable.
There is a downside though. A tank is *expected* to have 540 defense, and so unless you have an understanding guild, you might have a job persuading people you are actually crit-immune when your defense rating says otherwise.
Still works as a stop-gap measure though.
The crit reduction from resilience is greater than, but stacks with, that from defense. It is also fairly easy to get, especially if you don't have SoH rep - go to Wintergrasp, and buy the resilience inscription for shoulders for 30 shards. That +15 resilience rating is the equivalent of about +25defense rating (IIRC) in terms to crit immunity, and might just serve as a much needed buffer to drop below 540 defense without becoming critable.
There is a downside though. A tank is *expected* to have 540 defense, and so unless you have an understanding guild, you might have a job persuading people you are actually crit-immune when your defense rating says otherwise.
Still works as a stop-gap measure though.
I think most people don't advise going down the Resilience path to get crit immune because apart from that little enchant your swapping in pvp gear that is really not itemized towards tanks. Sure you will get Res and stamina but you will lose out on avoidance, block value, expertise and hit.
IMO the Thaddius trinket is meh. I use it for the huge amount of defense it gives but you lose out a fair bit on other nice trinket cooldowns equipping it. When your in a pinch the increase in hitpoints won't help you as much as the dodge on the Heroic Emblem Trinket.
Oh, I agree, it's not a great way to do things by any stretch of the imagination. It is most useful for tankadins that are fresh 80 and don't yet have the defense gear in the first place. And I certainly don't advocate swapping out good tank gear for PvP gear if at all avoidable, for exactly the reasons you described.
I'm merely saying it's a quick and easy way, using an easily available enchant or gem, to buffer your crit-capping by just one of two defense points. If you're dropping down too far enough to need to actually start swapping gear out, then you do need to start looking at swapping back in old defense-rich gear as everyone else has said.
In any case, i'm just pointing out that it's possible, not nescessarily recommended.
Edited, Mar 21st 2009 1:54pm by Lansdowne
I'm merely saying it's a quick and easy way, using an easily available enchant or gem, to buffer your crit-capping by just one of two defense points. If you're dropping down too far enough to need to actually start swapping gear out, then you do need to start looking at swapping back in old defense-rich gear as everyone else has said.
In any case, i'm just pointing out that it's possible, not nescessarily recommended.
Edited, Mar 21st 2009 1:54pm by Lansdowne
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