I apped to one of the better guilds on my holy pally, and they agreed to bring me along for a trial run. Turns out I get to Naxx25 and I'm one of 7 healers. Only paladin healer too, surrounded by CoH priests and druids with wild growth.
I follow the forums, I gem for int, I have the emblem for cheaper HL's, the 4 set, etc.. basically a setup where I should spam holy light.
But I show up to a raid where everyones geared to hell and I'm one of 7 healers. Basically nobody is taking any real damage, a person can't lose more then 2k health without 5 healers zerging to get a heal off (usually wild growth/CoH on the whole group).
So I think it's rather obvious I sucked it up hard on the meters. Then to top it all off, I'm treated like the typical recruit which I found a bit annoying. People pointing out my place on the meters and giving me tips to improve and all that, really pretty unnecessary imo. But I guess most people in positions of authority will try to flaunt it.
What do you think, is that a fair test? I'm not saying I would have been #1 if they brought 4 healers instead, but I would have obviously done much better, and I think it would have been a better way to test a recruit anyways.
Is it just me, or are paladins the worst healers when you start stacking more then necessary?
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Fair test?Follow
If they have so many priests why do they need a holy paladin?
Taking 7 geared healers to a Naxx-25, especially if the tanks and DPS were equally geared, is beyond silly. You should have thrown on a weak DPS set and started DPSing. They should have had 5 healers tops if everyone was in great gear.
Not a fair test IMO.
When they started pointing out your position on the meters I would have said "lol you brought 7 healers! That is at least one and probably 2 more than you need for this content at your gear level."
Edited, Mar 4th 2009 7:03am by jeromesimina
Not a fair test IMO.
When they started pointing out your position on the meters I would have said "lol you brought 7 healers! That is at least one and probably 2 more than you need for this content at your gear level."
Edited, Mar 4th 2009 7:03am by jeromesimina
7 healers is definitely overkill. If there's nothing to heal, there's nothing to heal.
Now...at the same time (devil's advocate here)...bodh will happily point out that he's got all kinds of tricks and shenanigans as a holy pally to outperform other healing classes. I'll let him weigh in on that (hopefully he can be a sport and provide some helpful tips as opposed to simply, "lulz u kant beat drood?!?!?").
Unless all 7 healers were try-outs, you start the run at a disadvantage. They're familiar with the group and the pace and are in a much better position to anticipate the damage and respond to it.
Now...at the same time (devil's advocate here)...bodh will happily point out that he's got all kinds of tricks and shenanigans as a holy pally to outperform other healing classes. I'll let him weigh in on that (hopefully he can be a sport and provide some helpful tips as opposed to simply, "lulz u kant beat drood?!?!?").
Unless all 7 healers were try-outs, you start the run at a disadvantage. They're familiar with the group and the pace and are in a much better position to anticipate the damage and respond to it.
Did you guys clear the place? If so, you probably saw a difference when you got to Sapph. What was your HPS throughout?
Yeah, I agree it was not a fair test. Six healers would be overkill. I have the same problem even when I'm one of five. Usually it's one or two priests and two or one druids adding up to three healers, one shammy, and me. I have a tough time beating the instant heals and ticks of the HoTs.
As we progress through I find my effective healing goes up, but my HPS is usually tops all the way through. When that happens - high HPS and low effective healing, it's usually a sign of too many healers.
Ask them for an 8-man Naxx10 with you and a priest healing.
Yeah, I agree it was not a fair test. Six healers would be overkill. I have the same problem even when I'm one of five. Usually it's one or two priests and two or one druids adding up to three healers, one shammy, and me. I have a tough time beating the instant heals and ticks of the HoTs.
As we progress through I find my effective healing goes up, but my HPS is usually tops all the way through. When that happens - high HPS and low effective healing, it's usually a sign of too many healers.
Ask them for an 8-man Naxx10 with you and a priest healing.
"the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
lamo are you sure you want to be with them. you only need 5-6 max if they are top end could probaly do with 4-5. my guild runs nax 25 with 5-6 and i still think it's over kill. too many hots for a pally to shine i think and too many aoe heals to out do ya. not fair i say even spaming holy light if your only pally and all priest/druids someone will get an instance aoe heal off before ya 5 times out of 8 i would say.
6 is pretty much the max number of healers for current raids. More than that is wasteful, unless your healers also DPS.
I run with 6 in my heroic Naxx's, and two of the priests still compete for DPS while healing. If I'm one of the 6 healers, I'm right up with the melee getting good use out of Seal of Wisdom.
I run with 6 in my heroic Naxx's, and two of the priests still compete for DPS while healing. If I'm one of the 6 healers, I'm right up with the melee getting good use out of Seal of Wisdom.
AureliusSir wrote:
7 healers is definitely overkill. If there's nothing to heal, there's nothing to heal.
Now...at the same time (devil's advocate here)...bodh will happily point out that he's got all kinds of tricks and shenanigans as a holy pally to outperform other healing classes. I'll let him weigh in on that (hopefully he can be a sport and provide some helpful tips as opposed to simply, "lulz u kant beat drood?!?!?").
Unless all 7 healers were try-outs, you start the run at a disadvantage. They're familiar with the group and the pace and are in a much better position to anticipate the damage and respond to it.
Now...at the same time (devil's advocate here)...bodh will happily point out that he's got all kinds of tricks and shenanigans as a holy pally to outperform other healing classes. I'll let him weigh in on that (hopefully he can be a sport and provide some helpful tips as opposed to simply, "lulz u kant beat drood?!?!?").
Unless all 7 healers were try-outs, you start the run at a disadvantage. They're familiar with the group and the pace and are in a much better position to anticipate the damage and respond to it.
The obvious shenanigan is to abuse Judgment of Light, especially if they're only looking at Recount meters. The trick is not to Judge immediately on cooldown but to wait for your prot/ret pally to use his first, so you can overwrite his debuff as soon as you can. If you're the only pally in the raid, it's even better, try to keep Judgement of Light up on as many trash mobs as possible, starting with both the MT's target and the OT's target.
Another good place to get a totally artificial boost is in Construct Quarter, when you run through the "lava" that wipes out everyone's health. Beacon someone, hit Holy Light, Beacon again, ooh another Holy Light... gratz! you just did over 70k completely irrelevant heals!!! For max meter-lulz, step into the lava, heal yourself, wash/rinse and repeat until the raid catches on.
The fun never stops!
Until idiots stop fixating on the heal meters anyway.
HoyadinFTW wrote:
AureliusSir wrote:
7 healers is definitely overkill. If there's nothing to heal, there's nothing to heal.
Now...at the same time (devil's advocate here)...bodh will happily point out that he's got all kinds of tricks and shenanigans as a holy pally to outperform other healing classes. I'll let him weigh in on that (hopefully he can be a sport and provide some helpful tips as opposed to simply, "lulz u kant beat drood?!?!?").
Unless all 7 healers were try-outs, you start the run at a disadvantage. They're familiar with the group and the pace and are in a much better position to anticipate the damage and respond to it.
Now...at the same time (devil's advocate here)...bodh will happily point out that he's got all kinds of tricks and shenanigans as a holy pally to outperform other healing classes. I'll let him weigh in on that (hopefully he can be a sport and provide some helpful tips as opposed to simply, "lulz u kant beat drood?!?!?").
Unless all 7 healers were try-outs, you start the run at a disadvantage. They're familiar with the group and the pace and are in a much better position to anticipate the damage and respond to it.
The obvious shenanigan is to abuse Judgment of Light, especially if they're only looking at Recount meters. The trick is not to Judge immediately on cooldown but to wait for your prot/ret pally to use his first, so you can overwrite his debuff as soon as you can. If you're the only pally in the raid, it's even better, try to keep Judgement of Light up on as many trash mobs as possible, starting with both the MT's target and the OT's target.
Another good place to get a totally artificial boost is in Construct Quarter, when you run through the "lava" that wipes out everyone's health. Beacon someone, hit Holy Light, Beacon again, ooh another Holy Light... gratz! you just did over 70k completely irrelevant heals!!! For max meter-lulz, step into the lava, heal yourself, wash/rinse and repeat until the raid catches on.
The fun never stops!
Until idiots stop fixating on the heal meters anyway.
Thats an awesomely rogueish way to bump up your meter lol. Reminds me of when I used to stun and SoC judge critters in between pulls back in early TBC to up my damage done in raids =P
Well we had a very geared ret paladin who was judging light. I was impressed with how coordinated the whole raid was. I don't think they would have been impressed with the new holy recruit overwriting light from the geared out ret paladin. Everyone knows a ret's JoL is better then a holy's, and this guy had almost every best in slot item. Plus the healers (especially the main officer) were watching the meters like hawks, breaking down my %'s of heals, etc, they obviously would have noticed that JoL spam as it's the oldest trick in the book. Wouldn't have looked good, to say the least.
A retribution paladin's judgement of light doesn't scale with the spellpower gained from Sheath of Light. That is to say, all of his or her spellpower. If you have time between heals, you should try to overwrite the tanks JoLs (a ret pally should probably be judging wisdom instead).
ArtemisEnteri wrote:
A retribution paladin's judgement of light doesn't scale with the spellpower gained from Sheath of Light. That is to say, all of his or her spellpower. If you have time between heals, you should try to overwrite the tanks JoLs (a ret pally should probably be judging wisdom instead).
Priority for JoL goes ret > prot > holy, since the spell scales off equal parts attack power + spell power. A ret paladin might be pushing 4500 attack power raid buffed, while a holy paladin only pushes 2300 spellpower raid buffed.
For JoW, it doesn't matter who judges it. It's chance on attack to restore 2% base mana, doesn't scale with gear/AP/SP or anything. Basically your best ret pally should judge light, if theres no ret pally in the raid, the prot should do it. If neither of them are in the raid, the highest SP holy should do it. For wisdom, anyone can do it, usually a prot pally. Light doesn't give extra threat anymore, but a prot is far more likely to judge every CD then a holy.
TL;DR, best ret judge light, prot or another ret judge wisdom, holy can overwrite wisdom if they want because it doesn't matter who does wisdom. But light should always be judged by a ret pally since it's nearly twice as effective as a holy judging it.
Doesn't overwriting a Judgement also get rid of any effects that Judgement may have tied to it by talents? (Judgements of the Just and Heart of the Crusader) Granted this shouldn't matter if you're overwriting a Ret's Judgement as Holy should have Heart in their spec as well, but this would matter if overwriting a Prot's judgement, no?
28 posts
No, it's not a fair test. That answers your question...
As to the rest...
I think you should take another look at what you want out of a guild. If they are willing to have you, and you just want to get gear and see content, it may be a good fit. If everyone else is wearing BiS, then more stuff for you. However, if you want to actually progress (which a guild running 7 healers is unlikely to be able to do), or you want to actually be a part of the necessary healing, then you may be better off looking for another guild.
Somebody up above said that you should ask for a Naxx10 with only a priest with you. I haven't healed it with 8, as suggested, but I've cleared it with 10 and only a priest by my side. We even did Spore Loser, which is loads of fun and a giant pita.
I think you should think about another guild, personally. They may be great people once you're a member, but from what you have described, I'd thank them for the opportunity and look around more. Meters are a giant load of crap, and they're almost useless with healing. If people don't die, you're doing fine. "Not if you sit there and no nothing and the guy next to you has to compensate!" No, b/c he will run out of mana, and then you can HL to your heart's content! ;)
Find a nice guild that will let you actually play a part (once you've proved yourself), and you'll be much happier. :)
As to the rest...
I think you should take another look at what you want out of a guild. If they are willing to have you, and you just want to get gear and see content, it may be a good fit. If everyone else is wearing BiS, then more stuff for you. However, if you want to actually progress (which a guild running 7 healers is unlikely to be able to do), or you want to actually be a part of the necessary healing, then you may be better off looking for another guild.
Somebody up above said that you should ask for a Naxx10 with only a priest with you. I haven't healed it with 8, as suggested, but I've cleared it with 10 and only a priest by my side. We even did Spore Loser, which is loads of fun and a giant pita.
I think you should think about another guild, personally. They may be great people once you're a member, but from what you have described, I'd thank them for the opportunity and look around more. Meters are a giant load of crap, and they're almost useless with healing. If people don't die, you're doing fine. "Not if you sit there and no nothing and the guy next to you has to compensate!" No, b/c he will run out of mana, and then you can HL to your heart's content! ;)
Find a nice guild that will let you actually play a part (once you've proved yourself), and you'll be much happier. :)
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