Paladin v. Warrior TanksFollow

I don't know a whole lot about Warrior tanks...

The main difference I've been noticing, is since no one wants to CC anything, Heroics are more difficult with Warrior tanks because their AoE threat is weaker than Paladins/DKs (haven't run with too many feral tanks, so idk about them).

In situations where waves of enemies are coming at the group, Consecrate and Death-and-Decay(and Pestilence/Bloodboil,etc) are vastly superior to Thunderclap (which also suffers if it isn't timed perfectly and misses a target, something you don't have to worry about with the Area DoT's other tanks get).

On the other hand, Tankadins can't put a 20% atk speed reduction onto a group of enemies, they can only apply it to 1 target at a time via Talent'd Judgment. Where as Warriors can Thunderclap and DK's can bounce Frost Fever onto multiple targets.

Tankadin mana will be less of an issue in 3.1, since they'll be able to refresh Divine Plea (although its not entirely clear how yet).

As far as shield blocking goes, (from what I understand) Paladins are the "more consistent" shield blockers now, and Warriors are the "spikes of 100% shield block chance" tanks now.

Edited, Feb 9th 2009 3:36pm by angryempath

I have noticed while grouping on my alts that runs always seem to go smoother with a Paladin at the helm than a Warrior, for all the reasons mentioned above, and in addition to that, our frontloaded threat. Paladins can gain the necessary threat to hold mobs faster than other tanks can with our Avenger's Shield, and in today's game more than ever, DPS do not wait for the "Sunder rule" (insert other class' ability).

One other thing I love about being a Paladin tank is my ability to continue fighting "as a group" when I am the only person in the group left standing. I've lost count of how many times this expansion alone I have been in a group where sh!@ hit the fan, all the DPS and the healer have died, and I have continued to fight ultimately killing whatever boss we were on. A skilled Paladin tank who knows when to use each of his/her abilities, how to avoid the big attacks, etc.. can do some amazing things when left alone because of our bubbles and healing abilities. Paly tanking really is a lot of fun, especially when the unexpected happens.

I dunno about you guys, but I MASSIVELY out-threat any other tank in my guild.

Seriously, level which ever one makes you happiest. Warrior and Paladin takes are incredibly similar in overall capabilities. Paladins have more extended survivability (we can take a longer, harder beating) while Warriors have more critical survivability (a larger box of ******* tools).

Personally, I play a pally because I hate the rage mechanic.

Pally threat and stam scale slightly better with raid buffs as well. Pallys get 8% stam from Sacred Duty and another 6% from Combat Expertise while warr just get 6% from Vitality. And for every 10 stam a pally gets 3 sp(Touched by the Light) which is a coefficient in every offensive ability except white attacks.

Warriors still tank? Cool. You wouldn't know it from my server. I'm about 100 hero emblems into my gearing process and I can't recall the last warrior I lifebloomed who wasn't swinging two 2H weapons. Can't really blame them, what with the sick numbers fur(r)y warriors are putting out these days.

In all seriousness, you just don't hear about people turning down a tank for a group b/c they aren't <pick a tanking class>, so it just doesn't matter much. Some healers are weird about DKs but that's mostly because so many players are still learning the proper way to handle DK tanking. Also, speaking just for myself, I can't keep track of what spec DKs are supposed to use for tanking. First it was frost, but now I hear that you can tank pretty effectively in any of the three trees. /shrug

Anyway, from my perspective as a healer, keeping a DK up feels alot like keeping a pally up, whereas (as noted above), warrior incoming dmg is a bit more spikey. HP jumps around a bit more. I don't think I've ever healed a feral tank. Huh, never really thought about that before...just feels wrong, a druid healer having never healed his own tank brethren...

edit: spellin'

Edited, Feb 12th 2009 12:57pm by AynLoD

Had a friend that was leveling Bear tank, around level 70 started to get fed up with renegade DPS classes in instances and had to switch to healer. Too many people were just dying before he could lock out threat on groups of multiples - hello Nexus and UK.

It really seems like these instances are just made to be Pulled 4 at a time, it seems rather unfair the difficulty this puts on Bear tanks. Then again, the same difficulties of all-hell-breaking-loose AoEs on many of the leveling-up dungeons in NR puts Paladin healers at a loss - yet once they hit 80 they become a beast of a MT Heal. Same can be said about bear tanks.

You really can put Bear Tanks to good use at 80, sure their mitigation ain't as good but there are MANY fights where Mitigation - especially Blocking - are next to worthless. In those situations, its all about keeping the damage incoming on 1 person so heals can be funneled to that one character. In that regard, as long as its a single target, a Druid can do fine. Doesn't hurt to have 40khp Raid buffed in 200 iLevel gear, either.

I wouldn't be surprised if they bring some oomph to Bear AoE Threat generation. Even warriors have it better than they ever had.

It'll probobly be like plant-hands reaching out of a green circle... So original Blizzard =P

I appreciate all of the input and have decided to go with a pally. I'll share some experiences as well as why I made this decision.

1) I copy/pasted this post to the warrior forums and their response was minimal. A total of three responses with one or two being play whatever you want. I feel that they didnt really answer my questions and if I needed help in the future the help/input I would get here would be greater. So thanks for that. Also the input here was very informative. It wasnt greatly biased towards pallys and provided information from every angle which was helpful.

2) Being a healer I know all about overzealous dps and casters who wont wait to AoE, mainly because I try to scramble to save them. Yes, I know I should let them die, but I generally dont feel like listening to them complain about dying so I try to keep them alive and just warn them that I wont heal them if they continue to pull aggro.

As to my experiences, there have been some interesting ones. I joined a group for heroic UP the other night with a pally tank. I usually armory the tanks when I get in a group so I can know what to expect. His health was around 2400 with defense of 520. I know he wasnt crit immune and his health seemed a little low but I decided to give it a try anyway. During the first few pulls I noticed him taking a lot of damage (i.e. I was throwing out regrowths/nourish to keep him alive, which isnt typical for me). I suddenly realize that he isnt using holy shield. For the first 15 minutes I never saw him cast it once. When I mention this to him in group, his reply is "Oh, I forgot I had that". This should have been my sign to leave. But I continuted anyway. He proceeds to use it once at the beginning of the next pull, and maybe once every 4-5 pulls. Needless to say there are deaths because he also throws consecration out maybe halfway through the fight and dps get aggro and either they die or I die from healing them. When I asked the difference between 10/30 min blessings(because I truely didnt know) it took someone else in the group to say the 30 min ones required regents. His reply(because he had been using the 10 min ones) was that he normally didnt symbol of kings....There was my second sign to leave. To keep this short, he also didnt realize he had Bless of Sanctury. We finished the instance and I made a note to never group with him again. How could he not have known talents and critical abilities...Anyway, sorry for the long story.

On a positive note, I get another group for heroic UK the next day with a pally with similar hp/stats. I am wary at this point but they mentioned they were a guild group and their healer had fallen asleep at the keyboard. I told them of my experiences with the paladin from the day before and we all got a good laugh out of it. While maybe not geared that great, the pally knew what he was doing and the instance went smoothly. It just went to show that I'm glad that I didnt make a decision on a class based on the stupidity of one person.

Anyway, I'm moving right along with my pally and maybe you'll hear from me soon. On a side note, I have two accounts and my druid is on one while my pally is on the other. Would grinding with my druid there to heal for constant kills be faster leveling? I was thinking maybe constantly grinding elites would be good exp or a place with mobs near or above my level with a fast respawn and a large number of mobs so I wouldnt have to run all over to find them. The undead castle/ruin thing comes to mind in hellfire. The outer ridge where the undead are posted every 15 yards or so with a fast respawn. Anyway, if anyone has any place in the mid 50's all the way up to 80 that would be good for that kind of thing please share.

Korosha, 80 Resto Druid
Silvermark, 80 Demo Lock
Xeath, 70 Unholy Death Knight

I have yet to have to ask DPS to slow done at the start of AoE pulls. Swipe and glyphed Maul are very high AoE threat. Have to position mobs though.

Rarity of bear druids is based on huge DPS buffs to cat and moonkin.

They are slowly smearing out the various tank strengths as well. Pick a tank based on the mechanics you prefer using as Mindel stated. Not on which is better, they all can tank if the player can play.

i hear ya there my main was prot pally to 70 but then we got too many so rolled a druid to go boomkin only to end up bear for raids lol. but the one thing i wish duids did have was an attack to hit all around them not just a frontal 180. maybe on a 30+sec cool down. i know i hate spider wing in naxx if it wasnt for them yanking you all around and my dps aoeing from start i could tank them all np in 25 man but being yanked before i could get a swipe off really hurts. atm lvling up my pally some. think after that gonna lvl my warrior as prot he's only 48.

Not to mention it would be hard to implement a charge for us without vastly overpowering us.

Our abilities are designed in a way that allows for us to take advantage of the fact that we can start spamming everything at the very start of a fight. Without a charge this is neccessary sometimes in order to get control (for a very simple example, look at the recent change to Violet Hold, the Dragonflight Squad that spawns on the upper-left terrace and splits up. Being able to frontload on both groups without having to engage in combat and build up rage is our advantage -- charging is theirs).

Charges don't really fit the persona of the character either. Warriors are immensely skilled combatants but far more agile, random, and undisciplined. Much like a pre-dark age Greek soldier as depicted by people like Homer. Individual heroes. We're much closer related to the post-dark age Hoplites. Immensely disciplined (but pitifully agile) and immovable beacons of raw force.

Too much thought? /agree -- Blizzard has been known to says "damn the persona of a character class" in the past. Still, I can do without a charge :D

charge in to get yanked part way there or swipe not hit all of them around them since there is a range and some of the pulls they are spread out. i've yet to try it on 10- man was just 25 man where no one single targeted and heals started right away and while i was trying to gather them all up lost random ones to random dps. but eh it's not supose to be 1 tankable lol. some times back peddling gets annoying like the mass stunns where your trying to back up and bam mobs get stunned so now swipe only hitting ones you backed up to. i'm just waiting to see how they change our armor again.

When I tank heroic Violet hold and that portal opens up I will wait up on the left stairs until the mobs spawn drop a consecrate then head off to Avenger's Shield the other two. Otherwise you can just wait at the stairs in front of the door with your party for both groups to link back up. As long as the dps wait and are behind you there shouldn't be a problem.

Edited, Feb 17th 2009 3:50pm by arthoriuss