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New 80 Drood tankFollow
Out of idle curiosity, what kind of TPS do you typically see at 80?
In 5 mans I'll be around 4k TPS. Higher or lower depending on buffs, alcohol and how closely I'm paying attention.
Much higher in 10 and 25 mans. 10 mans usually floating around 5k, 25 mans I can hit 7k but usually at least 6k.
Much higher in 10 and 25 mans. 10 mans usually floating around 5k, 25 mans I can hit 7k but usually at least 6k.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
I agree. I'd say I'm mid level gear level. I have a lot of best in slot pre-raid pieces, but also a bunch that I will be upgrading over the next week or so.
I typically see between 3.2-4k TPS on heroics. The only one I have any problems with aggro really is VH and that's just the nature of the beast. The only people who tend to rival me on trash pulls is usually single target dps of the 2.6k-3k dps variety. (They make me drop a mangle or two on my main target in between Maul+Swipe spam)
On boss fights I'm usually so far ahead of the DPS that I could go make a sandwich and come back to loot the body.
I'll most likely equip Trickery the moment it drops. I just thought it interesting they had it rated lower than Enraged on a bunch of different places I had researched.
Edited, Feb 11th 2009 3:26pm by Galenmoon
I typically see between 3.2-4k TPS on heroics. The only one I have any problems with aggro really is VH and that's just the nature of the beast. The only people who tend to rival me on trash pulls is usually single target dps of the 2.6k-3k dps variety. (They make me drop a mangle or two on my main target in between Maul+Swipe spam)
On boss fights I'm usually so far ahead of the DPS that I could go make a sandwich and come back to loot the body.
I'll most likely equip Trickery the moment it drops. I just thought it interesting they had it rated lower than Enraged on a bunch of different places I had researched.
Edited, Feb 11th 2009 3:26pm by Galenmoon
Most all gear rating are isolating the piece so they can skew the rankings. When taken as a whole things would be different. But that is harder to model.
My thought is by the time that Trickery drops you will generally have enough other good heroic gear to make the 700 armor not that big of a buff compared to the other stuff you get with the VH staff.
My thought is by the time that Trickery drops you will generally have enough other good heroic gear to make the 700 armor not that big of a buff compared to the other stuff you get with the VH staff.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
In the aftermath of Patch 3.0.8, druids have an 8.75 multiplier on base armor, and a 1.02 multiplier on bonus armor, assuming Dire Bear Form, Survival of the Fittest, Thick Hide, and Austere Earthseige Diamond. Any armor on neckpieces, rings, trinkets, weapons, and extra armor on cloaks recieves the lower multiplier while all other armor, including base armor on cloaks, recieves the higher one.
In this case, this cloak has 486 total armor, 336 bonus armor, and therefore a base of 150 armor. The total Bear Form armor granted by this cloak is:
(150 * 8.75) + (336 * 1.02) = 1656 Armor
WINNER = Cloak of Armed Strife
You have pushed Dodge off the charts with your Expertise (28 = 7% chance to not be dodged or parried and dodge is 6.5%)
Getting parry off is a disgusting amount of expertise and not warranted.
WINNER = Cloak of Armed Strife
Your Hit rating is at about 5.34% with the new cloak on, which puts you over halfway to the 8% mark.
WINNER = Cloak of Armed Strife
You only get .3% dodge and .3% chance to miss from the def rating on the new cloak, where as you got 1.25% chance to dodge from the old.
WINNER = Durable Nerubhide Cape
You lose 2 strength which will affect your threat generation by almost 0
WINNER = Tie
You lose 25 Stamina, which is a sizable amount in bear form
WINNER = Durable Nerubhide Cape
Cloak of Armed Strife = 3
Durable Nerubhide Cape = 2
Tie = 1
Honestly it looks like Nerubhide would be better for boss fights, giving you more mitigation through expertise pushing parry further away, avoidance by increasing your dodge, and health pool in general. There is also no wasted item points on this cloak for a drood. And in reality, unless it's a boss with an aggro drop, we do so much TPS we don't have to worry much about losing aggro in boss fights.
Armed Strife would have the higher armor, though as we get closer and closer to the armor cap, that mitigation isn't as great as it could be and the threat generation would be higher with less misses from more hit rating. Defense rating wastes item points on here with block and parry that we can't use.
Tough decision, but I like Nerubhide myself.
In this case, this cloak has 486 total armor, 336 bonus armor, and therefore a base of 150 armor. The total Bear Form armor granted by this cloak is:
(150 * 8.75) + (336 * 1.02) = 1656 Armor
WINNER = Cloak of Armed Strife
You have pushed Dodge off the charts with your Expertise (28 = 7% chance to not be dodged or parried and dodge is 6.5%)
Getting parry off is a disgusting amount of expertise and not warranted.
WINNER = Cloak of Armed Strife
Your Hit rating is at about 5.34% with the new cloak on, which puts you over halfway to the 8% mark.
WINNER = Cloak of Armed Strife
You only get .3% dodge and .3% chance to miss from the def rating on the new cloak, where as you got 1.25% chance to dodge from the old.
WINNER = Durable Nerubhide Cape
You lose 2 strength which will affect your threat generation by almost 0
WINNER = Tie
You lose 25 Stamina, which is a sizable amount in bear form
WINNER = Durable Nerubhide Cape
Cloak of Armed Strife = 3
Durable Nerubhide Cape = 2
Tie = 1
Honestly it looks like Nerubhide would be better for boss fights, giving you more mitigation through expertise pushing parry further away, avoidance by increasing your dodge, and health pool in general. There is also no wasted item points on this cloak for a drood. And in reality, unless it's a boss with an aggro drop, we do so much TPS we don't have to worry much about losing aggro in boss fights.
Armed Strife would have the higher armor, though as we get closer and closer to the armor cap, that mitigation isn't as great as it could be and the threat generation would be higher with less misses from more hit rating. Defense rating wastes item points on here with block and parry that we can't use.
Tough decision, but I like Nerubhide myself.
Don't forget you aren't getting the bonus armor multiplied on that thing on account of our recent changes; Allakhazam doesn't show it having bonus, but wowhead does. 336 bonus means it's still a 150 armor multiplied cloak, with 336 extra armor unmultiplied on top of that when all is said and done.
Expertise and hit exchange at an equal rate, so you're getting slightly 'more' out of the hit rating on the new cloak (both on account of 28 > 21 and the fact that hit rating will reduce/prevent growl resists, but does this ever happen? >.>), but you lose a marginal amount of threat gain via the lower strength, and take a stam hit.
The defense rating means 0.3% chance to be missed/dodge (so that makes 0.6% avoidance?); the dodge rating is a flat 1.25% chance to dodge.
Mostly stating the obvious but I'd stick with the old one, I can't picture a meager 300 armor winning over all that >.>
Edit: Beaten sorta but I thought they were excluding bonus armor from ALL multipliers, on every class? They were as concerned over the matter with DK as they were with Druid as I recall.
Edited, Feb 11th 2009 4:59pm by Norellicus
Expertise and hit exchange at an equal rate, so you're getting slightly 'more' out of the hit rating on the new cloak (both on account of 28 > 21 and the fact that hit rating will reduce/prevent growl resists, but does this ever happen? >.>), but you lose a marginal amount of threat gain via the lower strength, and take a stam hit.
The defense rating means 0.3% chance to be missed/dodge (so that makes 0.6% avoidance?); the dodge rating is a flat 1.25% chance to dodge.
Mostly stating the obvious but I'd stick with the old one, I can't picture a meager 300 armor winning over all that >.>
Edit: Beaten sorta but I thought they were excluding bonus armor from ALL multipliers, on every class? They were as concerned over the matter with DK as they were with Druid as I recall.
Edited, Feb 11th 2009 4:59pm by Norellicus
As far as I know, this is correct, unless you know of a blue post/patch note I don't know about.
I was hoping for an excuse to wear my new cloak. It looks cooler. ;p
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Do it anyway. Don't tell your healers. See if they notice any change :P
I think I will take your advice. Plus I may end up with better rage generation. Me likey rage.
Also I like the look of gear this xpac no more space alien craziness. Still want a sexier head piece and shoulders. linky
Also I like the look of gear this xpac no more space alien craziness. Still want a sexier head piece and shoulders. linky
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Horsemouth wrote:
That is why I jump around like a crack head in game when I tank and need a beer to boot.
When I read that I got the image of a bear with glass boots on his feet, staring at them in confused wonder. Oh my wonderful over active imagination strikes again!
Galenmoon wrote:
Unfortunately, this is how I normally look.... Makapuu
FTFY
O, wait a minute...
DAMN YOU BLIZZ.
70 levels and still waiting...
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Horsemouth wrote:
Galenmoon wrote:
Unfortunately, this is how I normally look.... Makapuu
FTFY
O, wait a minute...
DAMN YOU BLIZZ.
80 levels and still waiting...
fix'd :P
I dunno about you, but I didn't wait to get the form to wish it was cooler :P
Edited, Feb 12th 2009 7:18am by Galenmoon
I second that whole "give us new forms" thing. I'd like to have a few choices that can be switched, maybe for a small fee, at a trainer or something. Y'know, hi-res forms. I find myself walking around in Caster form a lot when I don't need to be shapeshifted just because the new armor is awesome looking and forms don't reflect it one bit. :(
I think that first part about Expertise and Hit being equal only applies to a Cat Druid, as a Bear Druid will have to deal with both Parry and Dodge. Expertise would have twice Hit's value in that case. Though that bit about Growl missing less is probably true, and makes it a good idea to have at least a bit of Hit from a piece or two of gear.
Edited, Feb 12th 2009 9:50am by Selverein
Quote:
Expertise and hit exchange at an equal rate, so you're getting slightly 'more' out of the hit rating on the new cloak (both on account of 28 > 21 and the fact that hit rating will reduce/prevent growl resists, but does this ever happen? >.>)
I think that first part about Expertise and Hit being equal only applies to a Cat Druid, as a Bear Druid will have to deal with both Parry and Dodge. Expertise would have twice Hit's value in that case. Though that bit about Growl missing less is probably true, and makes it a good idea to have at least a bit of Hit from a piece or two of gear.
Edited, Feb 12th 2009 9:50am by Selverein
Expertise actually has twice as much value up until you push dodge off the chart, then it's only worth about the same as hit for tanks. Really, once you push dodge off the charts (6.5%), it's not worth working towards more exp beyond what happens to show up on upgrades. Most times you'll want to hit that 6.5% mark, then push to get your 8% hit without gimping your avoidance/stamina.
One thing we didn't think about with that new cloak Horse...how hard is your dodge hitting diminishing returns? Because although you are getting 1.25% dodge from that cloak, how much do you end up getting after diminishing returns at the level of dodge you have?
Won't make it completely even, but it would definitely bring it closer together, since your chance to be missed won't take a hit from diminishing returns yet.
One thing we didn't think about with that new cloak Horse...how hard is your dodge hitting diminishing returns? Because although you are getting 1.25% dodge from that cloak, how much do you end up getting after diminishing returns at the level of dodge you have?
Won't make it completely even, but it would definitely bring it closer together, since your chance to be missed won't take a hit from diminishing returns yet.
Selverein wrote:
I second that whole "give us new forms" thing. I'd like to have a few choices that can be switched, maybe for a small fee, at a trainer or something. Y'know, hi-res forms. I find myself walking around in Caster form a lot when I don't need to be shapeshifted just because the new armor is awesome looking and forms don't reflect it one bit. :(
I think that first part about Expertise and Hit being equal only applies to a Cat Druid, as a Bear Druid will have to deal with both Parry and Dodge. Expertise would have twice Hit's value in that case. Though that bit about Growl missing less is probably true, and makes it a good idea to have at least a bit of Hit from a piece or two of gear.
Edited, Feb 12th 2009 9:50am by Selverein
Quote:
Expertise and hit exchange at an equal rate, so you're getting slightly 'more' out of the hit rating on the new cloak (both on account of 28 > 21 and the fact that hit rating will reduce/prevent growl resists, but does this ever happen? >.>)
I think that first part about Expertise and Hit being equal only applies to a Cat Druid, as a Bear Druid will have to deal with both Parry and Dodge. Expertise would have twice Hit's value in that case. Though that bit about Growl missing less is probably true, and makes it a good idea to have at least a bit of Hit from a piece or two of gear.
Edited, Feb 12th 2009 9:50am by Selverein
Many druids will hit the expertise soft cap (dodge cap) with no problem. I personally sit really high on Expertise; last time I checked I was around 34 (muhc higher than the 26 dodge cap). As for growl, does anyone else use the Glyph of Growl? Makes your growl never miss. I took it over Glyph of Mangle because with Improved Mangle the debuff never falls off anyway. I might need to look at my glyphs again though...
Edit: Hit is still important, but for a tank I agree that expertise > hit. Expertise has a tough-to-quantify amount of mitigation added to it, since a parried attack makes your enemy attack faster. Fewer parries means less damage.
Edited, Feb 12th 2009 12:30pm by LockeColeMA
I agree Locke.
I'm in what I'd consider, ready for Raids, but could still pick up a few pieces from heroics gear level.
I already have 24 expertise (6%) and 148 Hit (4.51%).
So I'm already only .5% under the dodge soft cap and 3.49% away from hitting the specials hit cap in what amounts to average gear.
EDIT: I can haz spelling...
Edited, Feb 12th 2009 12:46pm by Galenmoon
I'm in what I'd consider, ready for Raids, but could still pick up a few pieces from heroics gear level.
I already have 24 expertise (6%) and 148 Hit (4.51%).
So I'm already only .5% under the dodge soft cap and 3.49% away from hitting the specials hit cap in what amounts to average gear.
EDIT: I can haz spelling...
Edited, Feb 12th 2009 12:46pm by Galenmoon
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