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Help with Blood rotations/DPS..Follow
Well, made it to 80 on one of my DKs, and had a few questions about maximizing DPS. Now, my character is a fresh 80, still has a few greens, but I am diligently working to improve gear, as I am considering trying a few Heroics.http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Hyjal&n=Shadowhands, is my Armory, if you care to take a look.
I have read Theo's sticky on DPS builds and rotations, so I have a understanding of what, and how, things work.
My normal rotation is IT, PS, OB, HS, HS; if I get a Sudden Doom proc, I try to fit it in between HS's.
Using this rotation, I am only doing 1200-1400 DPS on the Heroic training dummy; I am aware that my hit is low, as well as my expertise, is there anything I am missing? I also realize that it could be a gear issue. Thank you in advance.
Broken link, fixed.
Blood is heavily dependent on gear. Which gimps it slightly until you start to see some better pieces. Also remember that AoE will be weaker compared to Howling Blast or Unholy Blight builds.
Target dummies will show lower DPS that what we see in instances. But don't expect your numbers to shoot through the roof.
The rotation you note is for 51/13/7, don't try using OB later in the cycle with other Blood builds (that don't include Annihilation). If you don't have 13 in Frost, place OB at the start of the cycle.
You already know about needing more Hit, so what's with the Stam gems? Your expertise isn't horrible for the level of gear, I wouldn't worry about it too much for now.
Did you test both Blood and Unholy presence?
Honestly, I would suggest trying other builds at that gear level. Probably 17/0/54.
Good luck!
Blood is heavily dependent on gear. Which gimps it slightly until you start to see some better pieces. Also remember that AoE will be weaker compared to Howling Blast or Unholy Blight builds.
Target dummies will show lower DPS that what we see in instances. But don't expect your numbers to shoot through the roof.
The rotation you note is for 51/13/7, don't try using OB later in the cycle with other Blood builds (that don't include Annihilation). If you don't have 13 in Frost, place OB at the start of the cycle.
You already know about needing more Hit, so what's with the Stam gems? Your expertise isn't horrible for the level of gear, I wouldn't worry about it too much for now.
Did you test both Blood and Unholy presence?
Honestly, I would suggest trying other builds at that gear level. Probably 17/0/54.
Good luck!
Thank you, Therion. I copied the current build from the sticky, and was just trying it on for size.
As far as the stamina gems, was just trying to meet the requirements for my meta, as I have few pieces of gear with gem slots at this point. Also, my health felt a bit low. I am one of those idiots who likes to have lots of hitpoints, just in case it hits the fan.
As far as the suggested builds, I see that you listed a Unholy/Blood build. I will have to look into that. I am learning as I go, and appreciate the expert advice.
And, yes, tried DPSing the Heroic dummy with Blood and Unholy presence; I think I had a bit more damage with Unholy, if I recall correctly.
Well, off to see what I can put together in a Unholy build, thank you again.
As far as the stamina gems, was just trying to meet the requirements for my meta, as I have few pieces of gear with gem slots at this point. Also, my health felt a bit low. I am one of those idiots who likes to have lots of hitpoints, just in case it hits the fan.
As far as the suggested builds, I see that you listed a Unholy/Blood build. I will have to look into that. I am learning as I go, and appreciate the expert advice.
And, yes, tried DPSing the Heroic dummy with Blood and Unholy presence; I think I had a bit more damage with Unholy, if I recall correctly.
Well, off to see what I can put together in a Unholy build, thank you again.
Well, tried the change to Unholy. I went with your suggested build, 17/0/54, and my DPS did increase by about 200ish at one point, might have been a lucky string of crits as well.
I was also unaware that your DPS would be different with the dummy than it would be in a instance. Although, on second thought, why wouldn't it? Instances have lots more movement, different levels of mobs, differing armor, and many other factors. I guess using the dummy is more of a benchmark; something to give you a rough idea. Yes, naive, I know....
Anyways, thank you for the help. Now, I just need a few pieces and I can attempt a Heroic.
I was also unaware that your DPS would be different with the dummy than it would be in a instance. Although, on second thought, why wouldn't it? Instances have lots more movement, different levels of mobs, differing armor, and many other factors. I guess using the dummy is more of a benchmark; something to give you a rough idea. Yes, naive, I know....
Anyways, thank you for the help. Now, I just need a few pieces and I can attempt a Heroic.
Happy to help.
For meeting Meta gem requirements use this. If "it" hits the fan, 24 stam will do exactly nothing to save you.
Unholy will do better in groups than blood at your gear level because of its dependence on disease damage over physical damage. With better gear, Blood gets more powerful. Again, just experiment and find what works for you. Oh, and be sure to glyph for the spec you're running!
Here's my list of weapon upgrades. There are a few armor gear lists around but can't recall off the top of my head the URLs.
You might also try my beloved 17/54/0 build (or it's variant 21/50/0)... it's perty good in heroics and not as gear-reliant as deep blood.
Cheers.
For meeting Meta gem requirements use this. If "it" hits the fan, 24 stam will do exactly nothing to save you.
Unholy will do better in groups than blood at your gear level because of its dependence on disease damage over physical damage. With better gear, Blood gets more powerful. Again, just experiment and find what works for you. Oh, and be sure to glyph for the spec you're running!
Here's my list of weapon upgrades. There are a few armor gear lists around but can't recall off the top of my head the URLs.
You might also try my beloved 17/54/0 build (or it's variant 21/50/0)... it's perty good in heroics and not as gear-reliant as deep blood.
Cheers.
Thank you. I had seen the gem you linked, but on that server, I believe it was a tad over-priced. I will look into it again.
The weapon list is very nice. I noticed the Titansteel Destroyer was ranked at I believe 6th( from the top); I had considered it to be my next large upgrade, is this no longer a formidable weapon for lower gear levels?
I might also try the other build you mentioned, it is interesting to experiment a bit, and see what works.
The destroyer is good, in fact if you are capable of rolling that much money then yea definitely get it. (especially if you are human or dwarf).
You dont HAVE to get it, and there are other options that work very well (Loken's axe from HoL).
For DK you want to look at kind of a combination of average weapon damage and dps. (not counting dw specs). I personally go higher DPS > expertise bonus > higher average damage in my priorities. (or you could just look at therion's sheet)
You dont HAVE to get it, and there are other options that work very well (Loken's axe from HoL).
For DK you want to look at kind of a combination of average weapon damage and dps. (not counting dw specs). I personally go higher DPS > expertise bonus > higher average damage in my priorities. (or you could just look at therion's sheet)
If this question isn't up my alley I don't know what is. Alrighty let's get to work...
Spec
I've been playing around with different specs, moving a couple points here, moving a couple points there. I've talked with higher guilds on my server as well as people on this forum and I think this spec is the one I've found to be the best for dps. If you have any specific questions as to why I put talent points into A instead of B, make specific questions in this thread and I'll answer them.
Rotation
OK, like my stickied post says, don't get too set in a rotation that you can't make changes based on your situation. That said, priority should be to first keep your diseases up. Second, assuming you have the oblit glyph, use oblit if at all possible. Third, use your blood runes with heart strike, then look over what (if anything) you have left and use it. Just keep this general idea floating around and you will end up doing the right rotation. As far as your RP dumps, don't make a big deal about them, only RP dump when you're 100% out of runes and can't do anything for a few seconds. Your strikes are your main source of damage, your death coil should be an afterthought. This is another reason that the sudden doom change will be so nice.
You MIGHT get more from being unholy, but if you really want to be a good DK, know how to play every spec effectively so you can roll with the punches as blizzard nerfs or buffs us.
EDIT: When I originally replied to this, there was only 1 response... tell you how much time I had to spend AFK :(
Edited, Feb 9th 2009 12:43am by Dilbrt
Spec
I've been playing around with different specs, moving a couple points here, moving a couple points there. I've talked with higher guilds on my server as well as people on this forum and I think this spec is the one I've found to be the best for dps. If you have any specific questions as to why I put talent points into A instead of B, make specific questions in this thread and I'll answer them.
Rotation
OK, like my stickied post says, don't get too set in a rotation that you can't make changes based on your situation. That said, priority should be to first keep your diseases up. Second, assuming you have the oblit glyph, use oblit if at all possible. Third, use your blood runes with heart strike, then look over what (if anything) you have left and use it. Just keep this general idea floating around and you will end up doing the right rotation. As far as your RP dumps, don't make a big deal about them, only RP dump when you're 100% out of runes and can't do anything for a few seconds. Your strikes are your main source of damage, your death coil should be an afterthought. This is another reason that the sudden doom change will be so nice.
You MIGHT get more from being unholy, but if you really want to be a good DK, know how to play every spec effectively so you can roll with the punches as blizzard nerfs or buffs us.
EDIT: When I originally replied to this, there was only 1 response... tell you how much time I had to spend AFK :(
Edited, Feb 9th 2009 12:43am by Dilbrt
Dilbrt wrote:
If you have any specific questions as to why I put talent points into A instead of B, make specific questions in this thread and I'll answer them.
I was wondering why you chose 5/5 in toughness as opposed to 2/2 glacier rot and 5/5 black ice. Thanks in advance.
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Dilbrt wrote:
If you have any specific questions as to why I put talent points into A instead of B, make specific questions in this thread and I'll answer them.
I was wondering why you chose 5/5 in toughness as opposed to 2/2 glacier rot and 5/5 black ice. Thanks in advance.
Toughness gives me armor, which, with bladed armor gives me more AP. That AP affects everything I do, as opposed to extra frost damage which only affects Icy Touch and Frost Fever. It's actually a significant boost to AP. Glacier rot I don't take because of a fellow alla poster that pointed out 2/5 black ice does more damage overall than glacier rot.
@ Dilbrt...Ah, that makes sense...for some reason I didn't think that would work, but if it does then it would be a much better option (especially because Blood DKs only have one source of Frost damage).
Has anyone tried out the 51/0/20 diseaseless build and if so what are your opinions? Elitist Jerks mentions it.
Thanks,
Thanks,
I just ran 51/0/20 disease-less for most of the last raid week. So far it's the simplest build in execution that I've come across and the damage was surprisingly respectable. Found that it was more effective and efficient to go by priority rather than any strict rotation. There was a lot of Oblit/HS/HS/Oblit/HS/HS mixed rotation stuff going on. Also noticed that Sudden Doom was high priority. Oh, and I blew the badges for this build and went with the Sigil of Haunted Dreams which seems to be decent only for a HS-heavy build. Also note that the Blood Strike glyph does seem to effect HS as well.
Honestly, it was fun to a degree but I wouldn't suggest it outside of 25-toon raiding. It's very heavily dependent on raid buffs (Sunder of special note), not to mention how it relies on best-in-slot gearing. It definitely lagged a little in heroics compared to the 32/39 DW build I was rocking right before (in large part due to AoE). But all in all I really like the changes to Blood (HS's cleave is very nice) and could see how the 51/0/20 build could be very attractive. I might go back after a few upgrades to be honest. Worth trying out though. Nothing wrong with experimenting right now. It's not like we have to min/max for Naxx =)
Honestly, it was fun to a degree but I wouldn't suggest it outside of 25-toon raiding. It's very heavily dependent on raid buffs (Sunder of special note), not to mention how it relies on best-in-slot gearing. It definitely lagged a little in heroics compared to the 32/39 DW build I was rocking right before (in large part due to AoE). But all in all I really like the changes to Blood (HS's cleave is very nice) and could see how the 51/0/20 build could be very attractive. I might go back after a few upgrades to be honest. Worth trying out though. Nothing wrong with experimenting right now. It's not like we have to min/max for Naxx =)
I've been running with the 51/0/20 build for a while now and really like it. I still run diseases, which does tighen up your rotation a bit, but still quite workable. I didn't put points into Epidemic as the rotation I run is:
IT-PS-HS-HS-OB-Dump
HS-HS-HS-HS-OB-Dump
I'll have to reread that post to find out if moving OB to the front will make any major difference, but may have to investigate further by picking up Epidemic and moving OB. Does the addtional 6 secs of disease time carry through the complete second HS-HS-HS-HS cycle? If so, that may be the better way to go. Hrm...
IT-PS-HS-HS-OB-Dump
HS-HS-HS-HS-OB-Dump
I'll have to reread that post to find out if moving OB to the front will make any major difference, but may have to investigate further by picking up Epidemic and moving OB. Does the addtional 6 secs of disease time carry through the complete second HS-HS-HS-HS cycle? If so, that may be the better way to go. Hrm...
Do either of you 51/0/20s have parses of 25 man?
Just thought I would drop a update. Now Exalted with Ebon Blade, picked up the boots, gemmed, enchanted, etc., very nice upgrade.
I was browsing the sites for possible upgrades, as well as Atlasloot enhanced, and did not see anything for certain slots; namely hands, belt, and possibly legs. Anyone have some suggestions? I do like the legs from either HoS, or HoL, can't recall exactly, but they were pretty fair. Remember, I am not ready for Heroics as of yet.
Also finally dropped the cash for the Titansteel Destroyer. This weapon made a huge difference, not sure, but I assume it was because of the + hit.
Thanks for all the help.
Ailitardif posted a great list of gear and where to get it from from elitist jerks a while back.
Read and enjoy
@Dilbrt: I don't have any parses, but will check out WoW Meter Online and see how that works.
Edited, Feb 11th 2009 2:37pm by Jornam
Read and enjoy
@Dilbrt: I don't have any parses, but will check out WoW Meter Online and see how that works.
Edited, Feb 11th 2009 2:37pm by Jornam
Quote:
Do either of you 51/0/20s have parses of 25 man?
Nothing all that useful. I was tanking in the portals for Sarth (WWS has "issues" with portal + nonportal parsing) and was spec'd differently for the rest of the raid week (edit: 3 slightly different variations, with and without diseases). I'm back to my preferred blood spec right now but expect to be sat tonight for the naxx farm. Soon as I have a representative parse I'll post it up.
Not sure I would use Sarth for analysis anyway as you'll end up using diseases on the AoE junk not to mention all that running around =)
-----
Look at the plate dps legs from Wyrmrest, I used those for a while. Badge belt and I think I used some heroic drop hands when she first started naxx, but I can't recall exactly which they were.
Edited, Feb 11th 2009 12:58pm by TherionSaysWhat
Back again. I had some luck, ran UP, and got a a pretty decent set of legs from Ymiron. Thankfully, I wasn't in a group with a ton of plate-wearers.
Jornam, thank you for the list. That is VERY handy to have around.
I'll probably be back to update again at some point. And, of course, let everyone know how I did in my first Heroic, when I get to that point.
TherionSaysWhat, Assassin Reject wrote:
Quote:
Do either of you 51/0/20s have parses of 25 man?
Nothing all that useful. I was tanking in the portals for Sarth (WWS has "issues" with portal + nonportal parsing) and was spec'd differently for the rest of the raid week (edit: 3 slightly different variations, with and without diseases). I'm back to my preferred blood spec right now but expect to be sat tonight for the naxx farm. Soon as I have a representative parse I'll post it up.
Not sure I would use Sarth for analysis anyway as you'll end up using diseases on the AoE junk not to mention all that running around =)
-----
Look at the plate dps legs from Wyrmrest, I used those for a while. Badge belt and I think I used some heroic drop hands when she first started naxx, but I can't recall exactly which they were.
Edited, Feb 11th 2009 12:58pm by TherionSaysWhat
See my parse thread, I use something better than WWS now
I'll check it out.
For completeness in this thread here's a rather disappointing patch as disease-less 51/0/20 with mid-range naxx gear (and a few blues). 4k in a lame 3min. Important note: Due to a messed up macro I didn't pull AotD which would have been a large chunk. I r dum.
Honestly, we're all really bored with Naxx and aren't putting in our best efforts anymore. Sad really....
Cheers!
For completeness in this thread here's a rather disappointing patch as disease-less 51/0/20 with mid-range naxx gear (and a few blues). 4k in a lame 3min. Important note: Due to a messed up macro I didn't pull AotD which would have been a large chunk. I r dum.
Honestly, we're all really bored with Naxx and aren't putting in our best efforts anymore. Sad really....
Cheers!
Blue Post on Diseaseless Build
Not sure what to make of that, but it will probably go the way of DW build...guess Blizz is a fan on 2-h disease builds.
Not sure what to make of that, but it will probably go the way of DW build...guess Blizz is a fan on 2-h disease builds.
Update. I was just curious if anyone would care to give my Armory a once over ( see post above for link ) and let me know if I could possibly step into a easier Heroic. I am currently Unholy, and I think my last Heroic dummy test I did roughly 1700 DPS. Not awe-inspiring, I know, but a huge improvement over my previous.
Anyways, thank you all for the advice, feedback, and generally excellent information.
Anyways, thank you all for the advice, feedback, and generally excellent information.
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Blue Post on Diseaseless Build
Not sure what to make of that, but it will probably go the way of DW build...guess Blizz is a fan on 2-h disease builds.
Not sure what to make of that, but it will probably go the way of DW build...guess Blizz is a fan on 2-h disease builds.
Yup
Edited, Feb 13th 2009 1:00pm by Dilbrt
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