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The times they are a-changin' -- 3.1 announcementsFollow

#27 Feb 17 2009 at 6:09 AM Rating: Good
Is it wrong of me to keep Stoneskin Gargoyle even after I'm independently crit immune?

I find the extra defense to be good for Dodge/Parry, I can replace some gems/enchants to get Stamina or Dodge instead of Defense, and the Stoneskin Gargoyle even gives me a 2% Stamina boost.

Is it really that much better to get 4% parry, or fallen crusader?
#28 Feb 17 2009 at 6:32 AM Rating: Good
4% Parry is obvious, a flat 4% avoidance. I think bliz either messed up their math or just figure 2% stam accommodates the lower avoidance, because 25 Defense skill grants you 1% each in Dodge, Parry, and Miss, so only 3% avoidance.

I guess it'd depend on what you're planning to tank (assuming of course you don't need the Defense as a stopgap from your gear), something where you expect to take magic damage (sarth breaths) might warrant the extra stamina over the avoidance.
#29 Feb 17 2009 at 8:08 AM Rating: Decent
Overlord danieldakkak wrote:
Is it wrong of me to keep Stoneskin Gargoyle even after I'm independently crit immune?

I find the extra defense to be good for Dodge/Parry, I can replace some gems/enchants to get Stamina or Dodge instead of Defense, and the Stoneskin Gargoyle even gives me a 2% Stamina boost.

Is it really that much better to get 4% parry, or fallen crusader?


If you're already crit immune without Stoneskin Gargoyle, that extra 25 defense is probably pushing beyond the point where diminishing returns kick in. Best bet would be to stop by a runeforge and swap around runes, checking your avoidance stats between swaps. My guess is that 4% parry would give you the largest bang for your buck at this point.
#30 Feb 17 2009 at 9:45 AM Rating: Decent
Defense avoidance is not affected by DR.

It boils down to 3% avoidance and 2% Stam to 4% parry (which isn't affected by DR either).

I stick with Gargoyle because it frees up my gem choices and enchant choices, simply because I think gemming and enchanting for defense is just stupid once you get t7+ gear.
#31 Feb 17 2009 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
ElementHuman wrote:
Defense avoidance is not affected by DR.


Right, but it's a question of where the defense from the Gargoyle rune fits in. If it's added to your base defense and then your defense rating is calculated on top of that, the Stoneskin Gargoyle rune would actually be rendering your defense rating less effective beyond a certain point. If it's a case where the defense from the Gargoyle rune is applied as the final adjustment, then it's simply wasted itemization beyond a certain point. Either way, if a DK tank is already crit immune from Defense Rating, +4% parry would be a better choice for avoidance. If said DK wanted to swap out defense gems and enchants in favor of more focused avoidance and/or stamina/threat stats and keep the Gargoyle rune, that's an option too.
#32 Feb 17 2009 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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1,594 posts
ElementHuman wrote:
Defense avoidance is not affected by DR.


Miss is subject to DR, and it only comes from Defense. Miss also doesn't proc Rune Strike or Blessing of Sanctuary. I think I'd take 4% parry if I were already crit-immune.
#33 Feb 17 2009 at 10:53 PM Rating: Decent
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947 posts
For what its worth Im amazed everyone is forgetting about the 2% stamina. That HP boost, while minor, I consider to be worth more than a scrap of avoidance either way. Yes 4% parry is superior to the avoidance gained from Stoneskin's Defense, but the 2% HP is just that little bit more room for your healers.
#34 Feb 17 2009 at 11:30 PM Rating: Decent
Sinstralis wrote:
For what its worth Im amazed everyone is forgetting about the 2% stamina. That HP boost, while minor, I consider to be worth more than a scrap of avoidance either way. Yes 4% parry is superior to the avoidance gained from Stoneskin's Defense, but the 2% HP is just that little bit more room for your healers.


2% stamina on a DK can be pretty significant as far as benefit from a weapon enchant goes. Generally speaking, in a game where there is now no set avoidance goal beyond crit immunity (compared to uncrushable goals in TBC), it gives a bit of opportunity to itemize based on preference. You'd have to be in bleeding-edge progression content before the difference between +2% stamina and +4% parry would yield a large enough discrepancy in effective health that one or the other would emerge as the de-facto standard for all DK tanks.

That's a big part of the enjoyment I'm getting out of TBC is the flexibility given to tanks with their builds. A lot of tanks (too many, imo) favor the heavy stamina build. I currently lean towards more of an avoidance/threat build with my pally, and if I decide to gear my DK to tank raid content, I've got some room to play based on what my guild needs the most. If your guild is stalled on a particular raid boss, you can break down the fight and determine which stats would give the most benefit to a tank in terms of survivability.

If, for example, your guild is stalled on Patchwerk, 4% parry would likely do more for tank survivability than 2% stamina. If you're a DK MT struggling to get through phase 1 of heroic Malygos, stamina might be a better alternative in terms of weapon runes. It's all situational, and despite what a lot of DK I've talked to seem convinced of, the Stoneskin Gargoyle rune is not and was never intended to be the best all-around tanking rune for DKs regardless of gear.
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