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Warlock Changes in 3.1Follow

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#1 Feb 05 2009 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=7912981820 wrote:
As many of you know the next major content patch will include some very exciting things, such as Ulduar, a new epic raid dungeon, a wealth of new items, and much more. We thought players would especially enjoy reading just a few of the class changes we're currently planning. Please keep in mind, that this list is not at all comprehensive, and more importantly subject to change.

* Improved Shadow Bolt – this talent now provides a 5% spell critical strike buff (similar to Improved Scorch)

* Improved Soul Leech – this talent now provides Replenishment (similar to shadow priests)

* Drain Soul now has a chance to produce Soul Shards even if the target doesn’t die.

* Siphon Life no longer as an active ability but the talent grants the old Siphon Life effect to Corruption.

* Curse of Recklessness and Curse of Weakness have been combined into one spell

* Consume Shadows – this Voidwalker ability is no longer channeled but has a cooldown.

* Several other warlock talents have had their ranks reduced, their effects changed or removed. This list includes but is not limited to Demonic Empathy, Shadow Embrace, Eradication, Suppression, and Pandemic.

* Additional new talents have been added.


For details of other class changes upcoming, please check out the following thread in General:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=7913091638&postId=79122296845
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#2 Feb 05 2009 at 8:56 AM Rating: Decent
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lol, they really are ripping up the class and re-doing it. gotta love most the changes :)
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#3 Feb 05 2009 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, what I want to know is how the talents are changing and what new ones we're getting. Too much to ask for in a sampling though. guess we'll find out as it get's closer to 3.1.
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#4 Feb 05 2009 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Ouch... so glad I read this. I was going to be respecing my lock the next time I played. Looks like I'll wait to see all the changes in 3.1 before I do so.
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#5 Feb 05 2009 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
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seeing as they are changing and adding talents, yeah, I'm waiting for the free re-spec we'll get in 3.1 before changing too.
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#6 Feb 06 2009 at 1:01 AM Rating: Good
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They've only really told us half the information, the only definite buff i see is CoW/CoR. (well and drain soul.)

Shows promise though, roll on 3.1

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#7 Feb 06 2009 at 2:41 AM Rating: Decent
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i actually hate the drain soul change... I have enough shards as it is and seeing as you'll be using DS from 25% to dead if spec'd affliction(which i am) i'm just gonna end up spending most raids deleting shards.... lol.

the improved soul-leach is a buff and the siphon life change is a buff in terms of simplifying the affliction rotation and giving more time to nuke due to less GCDs being cast (not to mention the pvp buff from it

honestly though the CoR/CoW change, though looking like a buff, isn't. if they don't increase the armour reduction of CoRec or the AP reduction of CoW to make it better than that of hunter pets/faerie fire/demo roar(shout) then there'll never be any reason to use that spell in pve because those classes would use those abilities regardless as for them it's not "we can use a dps thing or this", it's just "we can use this".. for us it's "CoA or these crappy curses that are over-written / equaled (IF talented) by other classes stuff"... so it'll always be better for us to use CoA until these spells can provide a larger benefit to the raid than their competitors.... (though for pvp it could have it's uses...)
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#8 Feb 06 2009 at 6:53 AM Rating: Decent
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With Necrosis, the DS thing is not to big of a deal. Just set it to delete any shards that go into bags other than your Shard Bag. Easy enough. Also, we don't yet know HOW it will be implemented. Will it have chance at cast or chance at end to give Shard. If it's at the end, if the mob dies or not, no big deal, as you hardly finish casting it in DS execute anyway. If it's at the beginning, they may as well have just taken shards out of the game, as you could just sit there spamming it every second and fill up on shards very quickly. The only other possibility is on each tick, and I doubt that will happen.

Not to mention the ISB buff. Still not sure if that 5% is in addition to the current buff or instead of. Guess we'll see. It's not huge because mages can do the same thing, and better for now, but if they reduce mages, then it's really nice. Aff locks will get some use out of it, but mostly Meta/Ruin builds. As it is, my gear is at the point where I can beat a Ele Shaman totem buff, just barely. Once I get the rest of what I want, I'll easily top it. A lot has been going around about the Meta/Ruin build, the buff it provides and the advantages of bringing one Meta/Ruin lock for DP. This buff to ISB will also help bring the damage of this build up a bit so we aren't there just for the buff.

Edited, Feb 6th 2009 11:00am by Lathais
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#9 Feb 06 2009 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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* Drain Soul now has a chance to produce Soul Shards even if the target doesn’t die.

While I like the possibility of creating more than one shard per mob, I'm concerned that this might lead to spamming drain soul early and often, especially in grouping situations.

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* Consume Shadows – this Voidwalker ability is no longer channeled but has a cooldown.

A cooldown is fine as long as they make CS heal more damage. I often run my VW down to the point where he needs 2 Consume shadows to heal fully.
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#10 Feb 06 2009 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
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the issue with consume shadows isn't the amout it heals, it's the fact that it can't be used in combat.. (making it useless in pvp generally.. lol) hopefully they'll change that though.
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#11 Feb 06 2009 at 10:36 AM Rating: Default
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Improved Soul Leech: this talent now provides Replenishment (similar to shadow priests)

I saw this back on the MMO Champion site.
It sounds really stupid, and not just because warlocks should never run out of mana anyhow, but because of what they think the problems are with mana regeneration, as stated here:
Regeneration while not [casting] will be decreased. We think that (1) the ability to cast heal over time spells and then sit back and (2) benefitting from a clearcasting proc that also gets you out of the five second rule both provide too much mana regeneration, even over short time periods.
To make this change, we are reducing mana regeneration granted by Spirit across the board. However we are also boosting the effects of talents such as Meditation that increase regeneration while casting. The net result should be that your regeneration while casting will stay about the same, but your not-casting regeneration will be reduced. This change will have little impact on dps casters, since they are basically always casting.
--Source

There was more comments related to mana regeneration earlier, but that is the most recent.
If they want people to manage mana, then they are trying to solve the problem backwards. They should remove Replenishment all together, and instead, make players depends more on personal sources, like talents or potions. This post, followed by the warlock change, is internally inconsistent with Blizzard's goal that players should not ignore mana.

Edited, Feb 6th 2009 1:37pm by sederix
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#12 Feb 06 2009 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Not when you think about it. A shadow priest has replenishment, and they are not going to take it away from them as they've had it forever. So, when they do start making mana management an issue through encounter tuning, people will start saying, well I guess we have to bring a SPriest. Going in line with their bring the player not the class philosophy, they are giving more classes the replenishment buff so people will say, "we need to bring a SPriest, Warlock, Hunter or Mage, oh, we already have at least one of those, no need to bring someone special just for a buff."

Edited, Feb 6th 2009 2:02pm by Lathais
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#13 Feb 06 2009 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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A shadow priest has replenishment, and they are not going to take it away from them as they've had it forever. So, when they do start making mana management an issue through encounter tuning, people will start saying, well I guess we have to bring a SPriest. Going in line with their bring the player not the class philosophy, they are giving more classes the replenishment buff so people will say, "we need to bring a SPriest, Warlock, Hunter or Mage, oh, we already have at least one of those, no need to bring someone special just for a buff.

Vampiric Touch never had the Replenishment buff, it simply restored mana based on the damage delt (and it was better than it is now, as far as that).
Instead of needing a specific class for a group, they should just make each mana-dependent class have their own source of regeneration (potions, or talents). None of this group-buff nonsense, which is inconsistent with their claim that they want mana to be managed instead of ignored.
Also, giving warlocks a group-buff for regernation is over the top. We've never had mana issues, and are one of the few classes in the game that actually can ignore the mana pool. Adding Replenishment tells me that Blizzard is not looking at the problem for what it is, and this is just a quick fix.

[Edit]
The beauty of the old VT was that one HAD to be in combat in order to get the kind of regeneration Blizzard was describing in the quote. They took it away, and now they are saying they want more players manage mana better. I think they should just give more players something similar to Replenishment, but it not be a group buff, if they still want to implement procs.
I'm fine for all sorts of mana flow, however it's really irritating to see how they cant make up their minds solving a problem.

Edited, Feb 6th 2009 2:56pm by sederix
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#14 Feb 06 2009 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Vampiric Touch never had the Replenishment buff, it simply restored mana based on the damage delt (and it was better than it is now, as far as that).
Instead of needing a specific class for a group, they should just make each mana-dependent class have their own source of regeneration (potions, or talents). None of this group-buff nonsense, which is inconsistent with their claim that they want mana to be managed instead of ignored.
Also, giving warlocks a group-buff for regernation is over the top. We've never had mana issues, and are one of the few classes in the game that actually can ignore the mana pool. Adding Replenishment tells me that Blizzard is not looking at the problem for what it is, and this is just a quick fix.


Priests don't have problems with HP pools, why should they get the Fort Buff? Just because a class doesn't have problems with something doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to provide a buff to others. Also, we do have to watch our mana, to know when to Life Tap.

I really don't see how giving us a useful buff when we only have one that's really kinda questionable is a bad thing.

Also, look at this in conjunction with the other changes, not just by itself. There are plenty of ways to nerf mana regeneration including changing mana costs, making bosses hit harder so you have to use bigger heals, adding AoE damage in fights so you have to constantly heal instead of using the 5 second rule to get mana regen....so on and so forth. Basically, the buff is in the game already, and they are giving it to more people so you don't have to worry about having it or not.

Edited, Feb 6th 2009 2:59pm by Lathais
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#15 Feb 06 2009 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Thing is, we might STILL not put any points in that talent anyways. Depending on how it works and if it stacks with other classes replenishment talents (and chances are it doesn't), they are buffing a useless talent to near-uselessness. But I'm gonna take a look at what they are doing to the talent trees, if I can put points in there w/o hurting my specc too much, I MIGHT give it a try. Otherwise I don't.

Oh, and I hope for an update on the progress for these changes ASAP b/c I'm a little underwhelmed right now.

Edited, Feb 6th 2009 5:44pm by Wortschmied
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#16 Feb 06 2009 at 4:00 PM Rating: Default
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actually the current form of improved soul-leach is amazing and a requirement for raiding as destruction (the less GCDs you waste lifetapping, the better your dps will be), i do agree the change is a bit strange.. not sure how it'll work with other replenishments or if it'll mean destro will loose some of the mana efficiency it's currently got.. shall have to wait and see / ask someone who knows more about the replenishment buff...
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#17 Feb 07 2009 at 8:37 AM Rating: Good
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Priests don't have problems with HP pools, why should they get the Fort Buff? Just because a class doesn't have problems with something doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to provide a buff to others. Also, we do have to watch our mana, to know when to Life Tap.

Priests were a "utility" class, until recently when the scrapped the idea of shadow priests being mana batteries. Fortitude is a remnant of that time; and now lots of classes have stat buffs, making this ability seem arbitrary. I agree that it is now.
Warlocks are a pure DPS class. We dont heal or protect the tank, and we were never a utility class. Adding non-damage related buffs to our class is really strange.

Edited, Feb 7th 2009 11:38am by sederix
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#18 Feb 07 2009 at 9:18 AM Rating: Decent
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well it benefits us in some ways.. if other classes can deal as much damage as us, but also provide some utility, then they're the better choice for the raid spot in theory... the idea is to make no class 'mandatory' in a raid so instead you can 'bring the player, not the class'. I like the concept, but personally I think all 'pure' dps classes shouldn't really bring any utility beyond their CCs, instead i think we should benefit from doing more damage (personally i think it's kinda like this now.. in my guild warlocks and dps warriors top the meters, with most the other dps not far behind.. the fact is we provide the least utility but maximum dps and well.. it rocks ^^)
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#19 Feb 09 2009 at 6:58 AM Rating: Good
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Warlocks are a pure DPS class. We dont heal or protect the tank, and we were never a utility class. Adding non-damage related buffs to our class is really strange.


That's odd, seeing as originally our Curses actually were used, and those used to bring a lot of utility to a fight depending on circumstances. Healthstones and Soulstones have always made us able to bring raid utility. Not to mention 2 forms of CC, even if noone uses Seduce because they can't do it right. We were also used on some fights to kite because of CoEx and Searing Pain, and even a couple fights in the past where we would tank. Before the changes, Felhunter brought a Resistance buff that was sometimes needed, Succy could Seduce, Imp brought Blood Pact. All those sound like things that used to make us a utility class.

Really though, I remember some really fun Heroic Slabs runs where I'd have to Seduce one, banish another, keep CoT on another and still DPS. All while providing Blood Pact and HS to the group and SS on a rezzer. Tell me that's not utility.

Edited, Feb 9th 2009 10:03am by Lathais
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#20 Feb 09 2009 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent
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That's odd, seeing as originally our Curses actually were used, and those used to bring a lot of utility to a fight depending on circumstances. Healthstones and Soulstones have always made us able to bring raid utility.

We're not a "utility class", not we dont have utilities. Priests were a utility class (or still are; shadow priests are no longer), according to Blizzard, while warlocks/mages, etc. are "pure DPS".
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#21 Feb 09 2009 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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shadow priests are utility. 3% hit and replenishment.
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