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3.1 Shaman Changes (So Far) Follow

#1 Feb 05 2009 at 6:44 AM Rating: Good
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SHAMAN

Chain Lightning – now jumps to 4 targets but does less damage. We wanted to make the distinction between Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning more clear.

Storm, Earth and Fire – this talent now increases all damage done by Flame Shock, not just periodic damage.

Spirit Weapons – now reduces all threat, not just melee threat.

Unleashed Rage – reduced to 2 ranks, now also increases your critical strike chance with melee attacks by 1/2%.

Totem streamlining: The Mana Spring and Healing Stream Totems have been combined. The Disease Cleansing and Poison Cleansing Totems have been combined.

We are also working on giving Enhancement and Elemental more PvP utility.

As a Resto, the totem "streamlining" makes me drool.

Chain Lightning will probably be cut entirely from Elemental rotations on single targets now. Hopefully Flame Shock's damage increase will make up for or exceed the amount of DPS lost in doing so. Not having to keep track of CL's cooldown anymore on said single-target fights should make them a little easier to play.

Enhancement stuff: Good, but... meh. I don't really care. =D
#2 Feb 05 2009 at 8:33 AM Rating: Good
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The CL change seems odd. I mean I can understand adding a 4th target and clarifying it as an AoE move, but by reducing the damage to the initial target, they are taking a large chunk out of our DPS (on single targets) if we take CL out of our rotation. They just went and buffed our DPS, then reduced it with this change, seems like running in circles.

The increase in the initial cast damage for flame shock would have to be significant to make up for the lost damage from CL. I guess for now we can only assume that the current 60% increase in periodic damage will also be applied to the initial cast, which would be the significant increase needed, but it's anyone's guess what they actually are going to increase the initial damage by.

But that leads to even more questions.

Would the increase damage from the initial cast of Flame Shock mean you would want to cast FS every time it's off cool down to make up for the lost DPS from CL?

If that is the case, will it no longer be worth it to get the FS glyph? With a slight change in the rotation, cast LvB with 3 seconds left on the FS DoT timer, you clip your last tick, but you still get the crit cast off in time, and then cast LvB every time it's off CD, and re-apply FS after. You will be casting FS every 8 seconds instead of 6, but it leaves you open to another glyph.

Will there be new glyphs worth getting? The next best option we have now is flametongue (assuming you already have glyph of lava and lightning bolt) for it's 2% crit increase.

It's definitely interesting, which is a good thing to me, and I can't wait to see some of the other changes, not just to classes but what gets added to professions.

Edited, Feb 5th 2009 11:35am by SynnTastic
#3 Feb 05 2009 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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2,396 posts
SynnTastic wrote:
The increase in the initial cast damage for flame shock would have to be significant to make up for the lost damage from CL. I guess for now we can only assume that the current 60% increase in periodic damage will also be applied to the initial cast, which would be the significant increase needed, but it's anyone's guess what they actually are going to increase the initial damage by.

It wouldn't have to be all that significant.

There is a lot of differing opinion and information on Elitist Jerks, but after going on an information binge and sifting through a lot of the Elemental threads, I'm seeing most people recommending CL on single targets as a kind of "fix", casting only one or two to smooth out your rotations and make sure none of your primary spells (FS, LvB, LB) get clipped.

If that's true, then Flame Shock won't have all that much to make up for and Chain Lightning hitting four targets unglyphed will make Elementals better at AoE. (I know I personally don't take the CL glyph right now, preferring to focus on single-target DPS. Trash is trivial, bosses are serious business.)

Quote:
But that leads to even more questions.

Would the increase damage from the initial cast of Flame Shock mean you would want to cast FS every time it's off cool down to make up for the lost DPS from CL?

If that is the case, will it no longer be worth it to get the FS glyph? With a slight change in the rotation, cast LvB with 3 seconds left on the FS DoT timer, you clip your last tick, but you still get the crit cast off in time, and then cast LvB every time it's off CD, and re-apply FS after. You will be casting FS every 8 seconds instead of 6, but it leaves you open to another glyph.

Will there be new glyphs worth getting? The next best option we have now is flametongue (assuming you already have glyph of lava and lightning bolt) for it's 2% crit increase.

I'm guessing not. Remember, raid encounters exist to destroy your rotations, which is why good players operate on priority systems. Fights like Patches where you can actually stand still and fire off a precise rotation that adds up to 5k+ DPS are the exception, not the rule. You have to move, you have to switch targets, you have to do this, you have to do that. I would still roll with the FS glyph.

As for new or better glyphs, who knows?

Edited, Feb 5th 2009 1:26pm by Gaudion
#4 Feb 05 2009 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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2,101 posts
Gaudion wrote:
Remember, raid encounters exist to destroy your rotations, which is why good players operate on priority systems. Fights like Patches where you can actually stand still and fire off a precise rotation that adds up to 5k+ DPS are the exception, not the rule. You have to move, you have to switch targets, you have to do this, you have to do that. I would still roll with the FS glyph.


That's true, but I don't really recall many raid encounters where you wouldn't be able to go through a couple 8 second rotations (FS > multiple LBs > LvB > FS)having to move, I mean unless you get unlucky and are hit with, oh say grobs poison injection a couple times in a row(that always sucks, random my ***). Usually you are given an average of 30 seconds or so to get a few rotations in there.

That's why I said it's interesting, because speculating on change and how it will affect gameplay, to me, is just as fun as actually playing.
#5 Feb 05 2009 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
I'm not sure how taking CH out of my rotation will work. With my current haste I had my rotation set up perfectly. FS-LvB-LB-CH-LB-LB and then LvB would come off of CD right as the GCD from my last LB was up. In my second time through it was LvB-LB-LB-LB-FS. Then when the FS GCD was up LvB would come up. This was all with 302 haste and seemed to work perfectly.

Quote:
We are also working on giving Enhancement and Elemental more PvP utility.


I'm not getting too optimistic about this really. Probably some gimmick changes or additions so they can say, "hey look, we gave you this" and call it good. Most likely though it won't be near enough to have much effect on our kiting/stun/survivability/CC issues.

The day they make changing into and out of ghost wolf act just like a druid changing forms is the day I'll think they're actually taking sham PvP seriously.
#6 Feb 05 2009 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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2,396 posts
DarkHybridX wrote:
The day they make changing into and out of ghost wolf act just like a druid changing forms is the day I'll think they're actually taking sham PvP seriously.

Aside from that I'm not even sure what else they think they can give us. They could increase Hex's range, I guess... I certainly wouldn't mind that. Uh... Wind Shock could stun for a couple seconds? I dunno. I'm almost curious to see what they come up with, but then I remind myself that it'll almost certainly have something to do with totems and will therefore be useless.
#7 Feb 06 2009 at 2:25 AM Rating: Decent
Gaudion wrote:
Aside from that I'm not even sure what else they think they can give us. They could increase Hex's range, I guess... I certainly wouldn't mind that. Uh... Wind Shock could stun for a couple seconds? I dunno. I'm almost curious to see what they come up with, but then I remind myself that it'll almost certainly have something to do with totems and will therefore be useless.


That's pretty much what I'm thinking. They'll give us something that can be used in very few situations and say, "Look, we buffed you. Your welcome." and leave it at that.

The other ideas I have besides the ghost wolf thing are:

Resto - Cleanse Spirit needs to remove EVERYTHING off of you, not just one thing per cast. Some may call this OP, but if rogues can instantly reapply two poisons then I don't see a problem with it.

Enh - If the follow through with the HP raise then all I have is a leap ability. Rogues can cloak and sprint to you, DKs can grip you in, warriors can charge you, pallys can bubble or BoF and get to you. Why should we be the only melee class that cannot close range?

Ele - We need something that will allow us to gain some distance on a target. Hex is pointless since your target can just follow you around or LoS you.

And for a added bonus we need a stun and a snare that either a trainable talent or near the very top of one of the trees (pref enh)

What it really comes down to is ele cannot cast and enh can be kited by all range classes too easily yet cannot go toe to toe with any melee class. I don't feel that resto is in as bad of a shape as the other two classes.
#8 Feb 06 2009 at 3:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I like the mana regen changes most of all and how they dont/barely affect us. (which is completly rightous if u ask me)
I think it was ridiculous if u compared our regen to others.
Sure u can outgear the current content and laugh at your own mana bar most of the time.

We must also take Ulduar in mind and how they are currently thinking of buffing all of the priests aoe heals.
Dual speccing will also make them excellent healers because they can switch between disc/holy.

Should this concern us? Maybe not.

At least i want to feel that i am atleast able to push out the same amount of healing for the same time and this isnt the case atm. (the numbers are about equal but time they can cast isnt)

Those changes will bring us more up to par with the other healers in the future content.

On pvp grounds i think they should really change hex atleast a little.

It's almost like a fear, except there's no los issue as the hexed guy could just run to get dispelled.
It has a 45sec cooldown.
It shares DR with sheep/sap/repentance for no reason
It is considered as a poly, meaning druids can shapeshift it.
It is a curse so various classes can dispell it.
You can still use all non offensive physical abilities like spellreflect (i mean wtf a frogg shield reflecting), evade, vanish, sprint, shield wall,totems, iceblock, disengage...
This includes CoS and the list goes on...
Most important is the range i think though

Think the ability to do all those things is a bit over the top and doesnt qualify it as a CC because your opponent simply aint controlled.

It is a powerfull spell however but i think atleast some of the things above should be changed.

Overal good changes and nice to see they are trying to improve us in both pve (through nerfing others mana regen and totem streamlining :P) and working on pvp.


Edited, Feb 6th 2009 6:59am by Raqiel
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