Thinking about starting a paladin. I like to solo mostly and thought it would be a nice change from my warlock.
However, I know that Paladins don't get any range skills, so... What do you recommend for pulling? Is there some item that can be used to do this?
Thanks
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I've been prot since level 10 and I gotta say that pulling has never been an issue. For the most part, I just run in and start killing stuff, not caring how many are on me. At level 16 (I think) you get the new taunt that has a 30 yard range and only 8 second CD and I've been using that to pull lately with success. Later, you'll get Avenger's shield. You can also do engineering of course and throw bombs and such.
Pulling is no longer much of a problem with the new taunt, even when it misses it still pulls.
I have also discovered that as a Pally I dont have to be overconcerned with accidentally pulling more than one Mob, Paladins can easily deal with 2 or 3 Mobs of an equal or higher level. As long as you dont get a couple unlucky crits on you.
Also if you go Ret you get the Repentance talent to incapacitate at range so large groups are even less of a threat.
I have also discovered that as a Pally I dont have to be overconcerned with accidentally pulling more than one Mob, Paladins can easily deal with 2 or 3 Mobs of an equal or higher level. As long as you dont get a couple unlucky crits on you.
Also if you go Ret you get the Repentance talent to incapacitate at range so large groups are even less of a threat.
Paladin pulling is confined to 7 basic methods (at least 7 i can think of.)
1. The body pull. Run in and pull them by getting close enough to agro. You have the armor and health to do this. So it works just fine.
2. Prot - Avenger's Shield. Deep Prot talent to pull. Not available till 'mid' game.
3. Holy - 40 yd judgements. Holy talent that will increase the distance of you judgements.
4. The new lvl 16 "taunt". Frankly I have an 80 paly and I haven't used this much. I do find it very nice to pull large groups of mobs that would otherwise disengage due to me running too far away. (Let's say 3 groups of mobs are close, but not close enough to pull all 3 at one time. Each group has 3 mobs. I could tank 2 groups with a body pull and avengers shield. Now I can pull all 9 mobs by body pulling one group, Shielding another, and taunting another... - Very helpful. However, I have yet to try it in instances.)
5. Linken's boomerang - Ranged trinket dropped in Un'Goro crater. (generally considered out-dated)
6. Engineer pulls - They get a variety of ranged stuff.
7. Tailor "Net" pull - This is REALLY stretching it. (Plus what kind of paly is a tailor?)
You will confine 99% of you pulling to the first 4 types listed.
At lower levels this is true. At higher levels, particularly for PROT palys - this is not only true, but preferred. As a prot paly you want to have most pulls contain 4+ mobs of about your level. More mobs = more reflected Damage and more +mana to you. Example: The IC Daily to kill Valkurie... I think you need to kill 20 of em??? I do it in 2 - 3 pulls. That equates to between 7 and 10 mobs per pull. It takes a few minutes, but there is a gate that has 3 groups and a PAT that comes by.... Prot-Paly Solo is probably the most unique and interesting solo in the game.
Edited, Jan 29th 2009 9:44am by Borsuk
1. The body pull. Run in and pull them by getting close enough to agro. You have the armor and health to do this. So it works just fine.
2. Prot - Avenger's Shield. Deep Prot talent to pull. Not available till 'mid' game.
3. Holy - 40 yd judgements. Holy talent that will increase the distance of you judgements.
4. The new lvl 16 "taunt". Frankly I have an 80 paly and I haven't used this much. I do find it very nice to pull large groups of mobs that would otherwise disengage due to me running too far away. (Let's say 3 groups of mobs are close, but not close enough to pull all 3 at one time. Each group has 3 mobs. I could tank 2 groups with a body pull and avengers shield. Now I can pull all 9 mobs by body pulling one group, Shielding another, and taunting another... - Very helpful. However, I have yet to try it in instances.)
5. Linken's boomerang - Ranged trinket dropped in Un'Goro crater. (generally considered out-dated)
6. Engineer pulls - They get a variety of ranged stuff.
7. Tailor "Net" pull - This is REALLY stretching it. (Plus what kind of paly is a tailor?)
You will confine 99% of you pulling to the first 4 types listed.
Quote:
I have also discovered that as a Pally I dont have to be overconcerned with accidentally pulling more than one Mob, Paladins can easily deal with 2 or 3 Mobs of an equal or higher level.
At lower levels this is true. At higher levels, particularly for PROT palys - this is not only true, but preferred. As a prot paly you want to have most pulls contain 4+ mobs of about your level. More mobs = more reflected Damage and more +mana to you. Example: The IC Daily to kill Valkurie... I think you need to kill 20 of em??? I do it in 2 - 3 pulls. That equates to between 7 and 10 mobs per pull. It takes a few minutes, but there is a gate that has 3 groups and a PAT that comes by.... Prot-Paly Solo is probably the most unique and interesting solo in the game.
Edited, Jan 29th 2009 9:44am by Borsuk
Borsuk wrote:
5. Linken's boomerang - Ranged trinket dropped in Un'Goro crater. (generally considered out-dated)
Just wanted to note that it's a quest reward, not a drop, so no one gets confused :) And not only is it considered "outdated", but the quest line for it has got to be one of the lamest and longest quest lines ever. Not necessarily in the number of quests (though there are a bunch of them), but in travel time as well.
Also, probably just an oversight, but Holy can also use Holy Shock (once talented) to pull. Worth mentioning :)
Maulgak wrote:
Also, probably just an oversight, but Holy can also use Holy Shock (once talented) to pull. Worth mentioning :)
And Exorcism for undead. When I'm collecting abominations in dead Strat, I keep everything that can possibly pull at range on cooldown.
Maulgak wrote:
Also, probably just an oversight, but Holy can also use Holy Shock (once talented) to pull. Worth mentioning :)
Not likely an oversight.. If you can pull from 40 yards with a Judgement, that sure beats Holy Shock from 20 yards. The only time I'd use Holy Shock or Exorcism to pull a mob is when I'm trying to round up a bunch to AOE down.
To repeat a previous comment though, pulling has never been hard. Even with the old/untalented 20-yard Judgement, you could almost always pull what you wanted as easily as if you had a bow or gun.
Quote:
4. The new lvl 16 "taunt". Frankly I have an 80 paly and I haven't used this much. I do find it very nice to pull large groups of mobs that would otherwise disengage due to me running too far away
Eeeer, in most raid situations, that new taunt should be the only one you use. As an off-tank it should be the only taunt you should ever use ...
HoyadinFTW wrote:
Maulgak wrote:
Also, probably just an oversight, but Holy can also use Holy Shock (once talented) to pull. Worth mentioning :)
Not likely an oversight.. If you can pull from 40 yards with a Judgement, that sure beats Holy Shock from 20 yards. The only time I'd use Holy Shock or Exorcism to pull a mob is when I'm trying to round up a bunch to AOE down.
Actually, you get Holy Shock before increased Judgement range. Also someone may not be speccing full Holy while leveling and could only have Holy Shock and not the increased Judgement range.
Quote:
As an off-tank it should be the only taunt you should ever use ...
Not so. Spiderlings on Maexxna, oozes on Grobbulus (when they're not on the MT), waves during the Gothik fight. Granted most occurrences where you want the multi-taunt are trash/adds, but that doesn't change the fact its just as necessary as ever. Our new taunt fills in gaps that the old one created, not the other way around. You should know any given encounter and know when each taunt is preferred rather then make a rash generalization such as 'only use the new taunt, period'.
Edited, Jan 29th 2009 10:43pm by Maulgak
EDIT: changed second quote to reflect my meaning, as per my later post.
Edited, Jan 31st 2009 5:01pm by Maulgak
Quote:
You should know any given encounter and know when each taunt is preferred rather then make a rash generalization such as 'only use the new taunt, period'.
Maulgak, I don't want to get into any bogged down argument but if you read my comment carefully ...
Quote:
Eeeer, in most raid situations, that new taunt should be the only one you use.
Most = not all. Thus "rash", "generalization" and "period" are not really necessary.
The new taunt does fill in some very important gaps, and is 90% of the time my taunt of choice. In raids, when sometimes you lose track of what's going on with the other 24 members, it's very reconforting to know that you are not going to pull more than you should when you hit the taunt button.
Paladin has been my favorite and main class in WoW for awhile now. Although having a long range pull is NICE. Its not necessary. You learn to adapt. Just like every other class has to adapt for its shortcomings.
In most situations you won't need to pull. Generally your 15 yd judgment is enough. Most extra things you can pull because of it you can handle anyway.
As far as tanking you get a ranged pull at lvl50 in the prot tree. You're generally AoE tanking as a paladin anyway so generally "single" target pulls are a none issues anyway.
Most pulls in the game can be safely made with the 15 yard pull as long as you do it at the right angle and right timing.
I would allow lack of ranged pulling abilities dissuade you from playing a potentially very enjoyable class.
In most situations you won't need to pull. Generally your 15 yd judgment is enough. Most extra things you can pull because of it you can handle anyway.
As far as tanking you get a ranged pull at lvl50 in the prot tree. You're generally AoE tanking as a paladin anyway so generally "single" target pulls are a none issues anyway.
Most pulls in the game can be safely made with the 15 yard pull as long as you do it at the right angle and right timing.
I would allow lack of ranged pulling abilities dissuade you from playing a potentially very enjoyable class.
Sorry LG, I was referring to the second half of that quote, about OTing, in which you did say "only taunt you should ever use". I will change my previous post to reflect this.
I have to disagree about the new taunt. I too don't want to start arguing about it, because really what's the point? It doesn't make anyone a better player or show any big weaknesses in style either way.
I find that Righteous Defense is far more applicable in the majority of situations for either tanking role. Should it be required that the second tank grab one of the trash mobs off the other tank (not really.. maybe the dancing weapons in military quarter) then Judgement/Shield or Exorcism (if applicable) is still the preferred method. I suppose if it came right down to it the new taunt would work.
The vast majority of reasons to taunt tends to be when something spawns during a fight and runs at breakneck speed for the clothies. And Righteous Defense is just far superior for that. I do agree that for fights that have a mechanic that requires taunting, the new taunt is generally a better idea. 4H being the primary example. I still prefer Righteous Defense in Vault though simply because the debuff on RD is a full 3 seconds as opposed to the 1 second debuff on the new taunt, and Archavon is usually a couple steps away out of weapons range when the aggro shifts happen.
Edited, Feb 1st 2009 12:23pm by Losie
I find that Righteous Defense is far more applicable in the majority of situations for either tanking role. Should it be required that the second tank grab one of the trash mobs off the other tank (not really.. maybe the dancing weapons in military quarter) then Judgement/Shield or Exorcism (if applicable) is still the preferred method. I suppose if it came right down to it the new taunt would work.
The vast majority of reasons to taunt tends to be when something spawns during a fight and runs at breakneck speed for the clothies. And Righteous Defense is just far superior for that. I do agree that for fights that have a mechanic that requires taunting, the new taunt is generally a better idea. 4H being the primary example. I still prefer Righteous Defense in Vault though simply because the debuff on RD is a full 3 seconds as opposed to the 1 second debuff on the new taunt, and Archavon is usually a couple steps away out of weapons range when the aggro shifts happen.
Edited, Feb 1st 2009 12:23pm by Losie
Quote:
I still prefer Righteous Defense in Vault though simply because the debuff on RD is a full 3 seconds as opposed to the 1 second debuff on the new taunt.
I've spent a good 10 minutes testing the miss rate on the new taunt. It has the same 3 second duration RD does.
It also has a 17% base miss rate and no glyph.. I stacked all the hit I had from all three sets of gear (13.5%), and it missed on the fourth cast. I hate unreliable taunts.
Wow, this thread is getting better, that's why I do like Allakhazam's forums ...
Let me revisit my prior statement ...
The new taunt is something I do use a lot. In raids, it's my preferred method of taunting under normal circumstances, ie: Mobs under control. In case CC breaks, I still use the new taunt 1st. The reason being that when I hit RD I'm not really 100% sure of what it is I'm going to taunt.
Example :
Mob A breaks CC and makes a beeline for your healer of choice. Just before you are going to taunt him off, another tank taunts it. You hit RD, and get said mob and two others, which were already under control by other tank.
Using the new taunt, you just get your runner and that's it. It's not really a big deal, but I do prefer it.
Of course, when all hell breaks, I hit all taunts + shield + what not and hope there's enough healers left ...
Let me revisit my prior statement ...
The new taunt is something I do use a lot. In raids, it's my preferred method of taunting under normal circumstances, ie: Mobs under control. In case CC breaks, I still use the new taunt 1st. The reason being that when I hit RD I'm not really 100% sure of what it is I'm going to taunt.
Example :
Mob A breaks CC and makes a beeline for your healer of choice. Just before you are going to taunt him off, another tank taunts it. You hit RD, and get said mob and two others, which were already under control by other tank.
Using the new taunt, you just get your runner and that's it. It's not really a big deal, but I do prefer it.
Of course, when all hell breaks, I hit all taunts + shield + what not and hope there's enough healers left ...
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