dps comparism between ele and enhance after patch....Follow

I can't really comment on actual DPS output because i simply don't know what a ele can produce.

I do know that my guild keep asking me to respec to ele cos they benefit from +crit buffs there also seems to be too many enhance shamans around, ive been thinking of levelling another shaman so i can spec ele but Mulgore bores the hell outa me :}

With my resto gear (minus the totem relic that I change to the emblem elem one), specced as elemental, I usually put out 1800-2500 dps. Now, I don't consider that too bad with not having elemental gear.

I'm unsure as enhance though since I haven't had the chance to save up gear for that spec.

But as elemental (which could possibly be why a lot of guilds would rather you be elemental than enhance), you have your totem of wrath (helping casters a lot), along with Elemental Oath, which you critical strike increases your party or raid's spell critical strike chance by 3% (5% if talent is filled).

Not sure if there's more of a reason, but those two things can add up eventually.

Yeah the dps I posted was post-patch. That's why I said I'm not sure how Enhance is though, as I haven't had the chance to compare since I don't have any enhancement gear.

Plus the OP had asked "how much ele shaman can benefit the raid group," which is why I spoke of the two elemental specific talents.

But you're right, elitist Jerks would most likely have hard numbers of the comparison.

I have been ele the past few days trying it out in my resto gear. I have 4/5 valorous with the helm of pilgrimage, shield and mace from heroic KT, and rest from heroic naxx. In heroics I'm pulling 2400-2800 DPS easy. My enh set is 4/5 heroes with valorous helm, pride/greed weps (enchanted), and heroic/naxx 10 offset, hit capped. In heroics I pull 2000-2200 DPS. On lvl 80 dummies I can top out at 3200 as ele and 2800 as enh blowing CDs.

With those numbers it's pretty safe to say that the DPS is about the same considering the gear difference. In a 25 raid setting ele will boost caster SP and crit and enh will boost melee AP. So both specs will help out the raid as a whole.

I know there's a difference in gear, that's why I said there was a gear difference in the second paragraph :)

After what you said about skill level I can understand that. Melee is new to me as my other toons are a mage and lock. I know that I'm usually pretty late at moving from target to target as enh so I know I should do more DPS with my gear. Here is a WWS report of a ele sham doing much better then 3k DPS. Go through the fights since Maly is on there so that will raise it a little, but he's still doing close to 4k on alot of fights. Here is the WWS from one of our naxx 25 groups from last week with a geared enh sham.

There's still not alot of theory crafting up yet, but the numbers are looking good for ele. I may gem for hit and pick up what I can tomorrow and go into 25 naxx with with phil and see how we roll together with the same buffs. I'll have to regem for hit and pick up some badge stuff tomorrow and try to get close to hit cap.

I agree with Gaudion. I have a 78 Shaman that has been played as enhancement sice created, and in blues and greens i can do that much DPS now. (Crit with Lava Burst at near 4000 when Flame Shock is active on target)

I did 5389 dps on Patchwerk this week. The rest of our raid had unusually "low" dps (most of you will say "omg that's low?" but if I had this dps the week before I'd have been 6th on the meters instead of 3rd like this week).

Here is the WWS: Patchwerk Jan 27th

You can browse the other fights too. We don't have an enhancement shaman, so I can't REALLY comment from experience, but from everything I've heard... they are still stronger than elemental by ~300-500 dps on average. It also is highly dependent on fights. Ranged do well on heigen and Sapphiron for instance.

But that's the problem when it comes to comparing DPS. You have to look at everything as a whole. While Patch is the ideal test for maximum DPS, it's unrealistic to use just that encounter alone to compare a melee spec to a ranged spec.

Simple reason is balance. The whole goal in changing elemental was to balance it out with the other DPS specs/classes. So let's play pretend here. Let's just keep it simple and use the two specs ele and enhance.

If true balance is achieved, on Patch you would think that enhance would out dps elemental each time. Whereas on a fight that taxes melee, let's say Grob or Heigan, the elemental should out dps the enhance because there is less movement involved for them.

When trying to achieve balance in the real gaming situation you have to take into account actual encounters. If, for example, elemental was to consistently out-DPS enhance on Patch, imagine how much more they would out-DPS them on fights like Grob and Heigan where a good portion of the fight they are just standing there casting away, while the enhance is running around like a chicken with their head cut off.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2009 3:37pm by SynnTastic

I was actually thinking about this, and it actually makes sense in the right setup. The goal when setting up your run setup is to lose the least amount of dps possible. If 3/4 of all your dps is melee, you lose alot more dps if the melee is running. This is actually a really smart choice if your setup dictates it. I've found a number of bosses that, just because there is a common "efficient" strategy, the most efficient strategy might be really different from the norm.

Most melee moves are instant and can be cast on the run as long as you are in range of the boss.

Most spells are not instant and have a cast time.

If caster DPS are running they can't DPS nearly as effectively as melee. Heals are almost non-existant with the exception of druids HoTs, and priests renew, PoM, and CoH.

Even if you are loaded with all melee DPS and 3 druid healers, it would still be more beneficial to have the druids on the platform, simply because if they are running the dance they run the risk of going out of range, and the people on the platform would more than likely be oblivious to that. As a healer I literally have to go to the edge of the platform sometimes to get in range for heals on the tank and DPS when they go into area 4.

You mistook what I said. It wasn't meant as a rule, it was meant more to be an idea or fictional example to help people easily understand why patches isn't ideal testing for balance.

Yes, Patches is a great test of maximum potential DPS. Yes, Patches is an ideal fight that removes all variables that hinder DPS. But Patches is not a good fight to determine if one class is balanced with another. Simply because throwing in variables, favors some classes and specs(melee vs. ranged) over others which results in higher DPS for those particular specs in that encounter.



I also didn't refute what I said in the second post. What I said in the second post was that melee are more effective running with the boss than casters are while running. That doesn't refute what I said, since I clarified that Heigan and Grob have less movement involved for casters. If casters are on the platform, the only time they have to move is during phase two when no DPS is being done to the boss except carryover DoTs.

My original point again is that the Heigan fight favors ranged casters because they aren't required to move. The ranged casters have an ideal fighting situation, while the melee have to deal with the variable of movement while DPSing.

Same thing for Grobulus(I'm going to make up the yardage, because I honestly have no clue how the room scales with real measurements, but I will keep them in sync). All classes at some point have to run here. The difference is, the melee DPS have to run 10 yards behind the kite path if they are injected with poison, and then have to run another 20 yards to get back to Grob's current spot on the kite path. Meanwhile a ranged caster only has to run roughly 10 yards to the side behind the kite path to drop his poison ring and then 10 yards back to the center of the room to begin casting again. During the running time, neither class can DPS, but the melee have to run significantly more to get back to the point where they can DPS compared to ranged.

Either way, my original point again was that Patchwerk is a fight that removes all variables. It is fine for determining maximum potential DPS, it isn't good for determining balanced DPS. Because variables often favor one type of class over another(ranged over melee).

If you have a ranged class out DPS a melee class on a fight where all variables are removed, when you take those same two classes and put them in a fight where the variables favor the ranged class, how much more will that class out-dps the one that has to deal with the unfavorable conditions. That isn't balance.

Edit because I forgot to mention: Heigan's ability to increase casting time by 300% is not a random cast, it is an aura that has a 20 yard radius.

If you are a caster and get hit by the aura, you are too close and need to move back. Which isn't really a variable for the fight, since the melee are constantly moving they are forced to use only instant spells anyway, and besides that, there aren't that many abilities a melee have that aren't instant to begin with, off the top of my head, slam for warriors is the only one I can think of, but there is a talent that procs making it istant.


Edited, Feb 10th 2009 1:02pm by SynnTastic

I think you're misunderstanding the phases. I mean that the DPS fight heigan on the platform during P1, and the casters run and gun like how the melee normally do. In phase 2 EVERYONE runs, like normal. I guess it depends on if your melee DPS is higher or your caster DPS is higher. Also depends on your healing classes, because barring HoTs, shields, and instant-casts, there will be a couple of seconds every 15 seconds where you won't be getting heals.

I agree. The only time I could see the use in it is if you have, say, a tank, 6 melee, one caster, and two healers. Then it MIGHT be worthwhile.

A strategy I want to try next time is getting EVERYONE on the platform in P1. Apparently if you put all your casters at one corner and all the melee at another, no one needs to run and no one gets the spell slow. Everyone still runs P2, but by then he should be down to around 30% hp thanks to the insane damage output.