Spec dilemmaFollow

Alrighty, here's the situation: my guild is pretty small, only running 10 man content atm. We currently have 0 Ret Paladins in the guild except for me when I do a respec, thus leaving us with 0 Prot Paladins, lol. We have 2 Holy Paladins that raid currently, though generally not at the same time. We mix it up between those 2, a Resto Druid, and a Resto Shaman. We also have an Elemental Shaman who raids the majority of the time (though is trying to sit out more and more to make room for lesser geared DPS) and a Rogue who doesn't raid much at all.

Now, unless I'm missing something (I used this calc on MMO-Champ to check buffs/debuffs) Elemental Shaman, Rogues, and Ret Paladins are the classes/specs that bring a 3% increased crit chance to a raid: Heart of the Crusader, Master Poisoner, and Totem of Wrath. I've been running with Heart of the Crusader in my spec, mostly due to lack of other sources for this debuff in our guild lineup.

Both of our Holy Paladins have been running a Kings setup, not taking full advantage of the Ret tree's goodness. One of them was more or less PvP specced like a BC Holy would do, but has since done a slight respec to include up to Conviction in Ret, keeping Kings. I have seen an increase in his performance. He was asking me advice on whether he should drop Kings and go for the full crit buff of the Ret tree, or to continue rocking Kings.

Ok, now that I think all the necessary info is out there, lol, I would like some opinions on what to do here. I've been thinking about redoing my spec to pick up Kings and Imp. Might, but would be losing out on Heart of the Crusader. This would at least free up our Holy Paladins to spec into the full Ret crit bonus. It also means that when our Elemental Shaman was not around, we would be missing out on the 3% crit debuff completely. Just how important (remember, 10 man content) is that 3% crit debuff relative to having a Paladin who can buff Kings? Also, if I were the one speccing Kings, I could not myself receive this buff. Suppose one Holy Paly could stay Kings specced, one go full crit specced, but again we generally don't have both present at the same time.

Ok, maybe that was just me rambling, lol. I would like to hear any opinions on the matter, if anyone can comprehend what I said :P hehe. Thanks in advance.

Edited, Jan 27th 2009 3:57am by Maulgak

I normally spec 51/5/15 for both Kings and Heart of the Crusdaer and keep a judgement up at all times. I'm missing out on the extra 3% crit from sanctified seals but it's better overall for the raid as I'm only one of 2 palas that spec kings in the guild (no rets) and my crit % is pretty decent anyway (35% holy).

On the other hand, when I go prot, I still pick up both kings and HotC with a 0/58/13 build, perhaps you can show us what your spec is at the mo?

its amazing what a Ret pally brings to the table. they kinda just fill in all the missing holes. without one, you are left making these types of decisions.

you really need to let Holy worry about Kings. you can even have them do imp Might and Heart on their way to Conviction for a 51/5/15.

as Prot this leaves you with a little more freedom to take some extras(maybe some Benediction or Reckoning or even full Stoicism or Unyielding Faith). you would get your Kings buff and the raid would get the 3% crit.

the problem with leaving the raid buffs up to the Holy is that they need to keep the judgements up. this is not instinctual to every Holy pally since it is not part of a normal rotation. then you need to decide who gets Kings vs imp Might, you would also probably lose imp Wis.


include a Ret pally in the mix: Holy still takes Kings. Ret supplies the imp Might, the +3% crit, reg Wis + Replenishment, +3% haste, Ret aura dmg, the biggest JoL, +3% dmg for Sanctified Ret, DS heals, good looks, and a buttload of dmg.

JoL procs != threat anymore

You should see my 25 man raids. We sometimes have 6 pallys, 3 holy, 2 ret and 1 more in one of the three trees. PallyPower is a must then. Only thing that sucks is tier gear are a battle especially since we also have like 3 mages and around 2 priests.

PvE you definitely want Conviction as a holy pally, by losing kings you can get 3% more crit, its personal preference. I like having Kings so I don't bother with 3% crit (I am at 36% holy crit though unbuffed).

If you have a Shadowpriest raiding and giving you replenishment then the loss of 3% crit isn't going to break your raid. If not then look at recruiting ret (though 3 pallies in a 10 man is suboptimal).