Survival Spec, what are you using and why?Follow

Hi Fellow Hunters,

I have spent some time post-patch running my Hunter through Naxx with the Guild and solo'ing as my original spec of BM. It is sad to say that the changes have made a visible difference in DPS.

All I have heard so far on these forums is that Survival\Trap Dancer seems to be the way forward for DPS. Here is where my ignorance kicks in. I have never really paid much attention to the other tree's as I started BM speccing as soon as I earnt talent points. (That seems like so long ago lol).

So to those of you who use Survival Spec, to those of you who have just switched to Survival Spec and for those of us wanting to make the switch I wanted to ask you what build you use, (all links will be studied hard), and if you can find the time just to tell me what the major benefits and detractions are. I know some of this is in the FAQ\Hunter Bible but nothing really compensates for real experience.

All help and information is gratefully recieved as always.

RIP Beast Master

I have a question.

In heroics, I'm barely ever far away from my targets. I like to stay close to my healer in case aggro goes his way and I can throw down a freezing trap(run with the same healer+tank often). Plus, in places like Nexus and UK I feel restricted in the range I can stay at. I could probably easily bump up my range to 36 yards, but for some places, I'd find it near impossible.

How important is it to keep the 30+ yard range with survival? Also, wtf is trap dancing?

Trap Dancing
-------------------

Trap Dancing is a different play style that has been in discussion on the EJ Forums for some time now. It revolves around standing at the ~5yrd dead zone and dropping an Immolation trap every cool down possible. While this spec and approach does yield slightly higher dps thru an increased number of LnL procs and subsequently Explosive shots, there are numerous issues that make difficult to implement in a live raid situation.

1) Boss Hit Box versus Trap Activation - Many bosses have large hit boxes in this current raid content. Traps however, need to be at or near the center of a mobs hit box to activate. Bosses such as Malygos, Sartharion, Sapphiron, Gluth, Grobbulus, etc all have large hit boxes that require you to run to the center of the boss, drop your trap and get back out. While the EJ forums have proposed using Raptor strike / Mongoose bite to fill this dead time running in, it still is a major problem facing this spec.

2) High mobility fights - Not every fight in WotLK right now is like Patchwerk and allows you to stand and nuke and run in to drop your traps fear free. While bosses with predictable movement patterns are somewhat beneficial to trap dancing they also present an issue of staying at range and dropping when you can or constantly moving and trying to drop every trap cool down.

3) Survivability - I know that most healers and raid leaders alike do not want any more melee in on a boss than necessary on alot of fights. Positioning issues like Tail Swipes, Cleaves, Ice Tombs, all put a hunter trap dancing at risk for taking damage which in turn creates yet another person that healers have to worry about. In many cases you can get yourself swiped/cleaved/etc because you are running into the boss. The risks are higher than standing at range and most healers don't like healing hunters as it is.

4) 30 Sec CD on LnL procs - The latest patch has added a 30 sec internal cool down to LnL procs through either stings or traps (no info has arisen proving these timers are separate). This discourages taking Resourcefulness for a reduced trap cool down time although in many cases promotes trap dancing because of the already low proc rate from serpent sting.

Overall thoughts on Trap Dancing:

There will be a select few hunters who master this playstyle and post great results with it. In most other cases, the general hunter population as well as healers and raid leaders everywhere will find themselves more at ease at range dpsing like hunters have always done in the past. It looks like a solid play style when you look at the math on EJ but successfully implementing it into a raid situation will be a great deal more difficult than the potential dps boost it provides. All the ideas of the spec however are not terrible. Any fight where you KNOW where a boss or add will be feel free to toss a trap down and get as many LnL procs as possible.

Thank you for all the answers. Of course the simplest answer was to spec up myself as Surv and see what the deal was.

ZOMG PEW PEW LAZERZ FTW!!!!

Okay a little over the top and child like but after a few years of nothing but BM I am now a convert. I have a shot rotation that has taken my 1.1K DPS on average to 1.5k DPS on average and that is without 'Full' raid buffs, (Only done Heroic UK 5 man with a minimal amount of buffs and pots), on the second figure. The whole trap thing is interesting and will take some to perfect and make proper use off, but overall I am now kicking out much better figures

Here is the build I went for, some may find it familiar.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moonglade&n=Morg%C3%A1nne

Trinkets and rings could be better and so could my Hit cap which is getting closer to the required 8%. (Juggling AP and +Hit at the moment lol)

So I am a hppy chappy with the switch to SV. RIP BM but things change so I guess we get used to it.

Happy hunting all!

I am using your current Talent tree Build and I have to say it rocks. I am rotating with the following -

Aimed
Explosive
Serpent Sting
Steady
and repeat of course dropping Explosive when certain things Proc.

Tell me if you think it needs tweaking\changing or what you are using. I trust your work, it has method and math behind it, thank you Aethien

95% crit and he starts bragging. Why didn't you wait until master tactician procced? That would easily have given you > 100% crit. I believe I had ~105% with MT up.
And 5.3k AP is not very much. Didn't you have some support? I currently have 4.9k with only dragonhawk up.

Edited, Jan 26th 2009 5:49am by Mulgrin

I think with full 25 man buffs, the greatness buff and MT I've seen something like 112%

Woah, nice crit % Aethien.

Well I finally got it together on my DPS and and the whole SV thing and managed to get an awesome night under my belt last night. Took down Sapph, Kel Thuzad, (got Nerubian Conqueror loot), and then Sarth for the first time (Got Staff of the Plaguehound and Hero Cryptstalkers handguards token) - Not bad for one night loot lol. Mana was no issue and my average over the course of the night stayed around 1500K DPS. I have to agree with others at the moment that Mages etc are topping the chart easily along with rogues on DPS.

So I am enjoying it.

Oh and Aethien, got some of your reply to the other topics I posted in. We will have to agree to disagree on those that kieyboard and those that mouse lol but that is life.