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Surviving the patch.Follow

#1 Jan 20 2009 at 8:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Hunter Aspects are now off the Global Cooldown again. They still have a shared 1 second cooldown.
All Hunter pet abilities with a cooldown of 30 seconds or more are no longer on the global cooldown.
Arcane Shot: Mana cost lowered to match the cost of Steady Shot.
Aspect of the Wild - This aspect is now raid-wide.
Call of the Wild: The benefit from this pet talent now applies to only the Hunter and their own pet.
Deterrence: Design changed to grant 100% parry and 100% chance to "deflect" spells coming from the front, but prevents the Hunter from attacking. Lasts 5 seconds and has a 90 second cooldown.
Explosive Shot: Damage increased substantially, and additional scaling added to compensate Survival Hunters for the decrease in power of Steady Shot. No longer deals damage to secondary targets.
Ferocious Inspiration: This talent now also increase the damage the Hunter does with Arcane Shot by 3/6/9%.
Improved Tracking(Survival): This talent has been slightly re-designed. Now reads: While tracking Beasts, Demons, Dragonkin, Elementals, Giants, Humanoids and Undead, all ranged damage done to those types is increased by 1/2/3/4/5%.
Kill Shot – Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds, down from 35 sec.
Kindred Spirits: This talent now grants only 3/6/9/12/15% pet damage.
Lock and Load: Now has a 30 second cooldown.
Readiness: No longer resets the cooldown on Bestial Wrath.
Steady Shot: Now gains 10% of attack power as damage instead of 20%.
Serpent’s Swiftness: This talent now grants only 2/4/6/8/10% bonus attack speed to pet. The hunter attack speed bonus is unchanged.
Tranquilizing Shot (Hunter): Cooldown increased to 8 sec, up from 6. Mana cost reduced to 8%, down from 12%.
Unleashed Fury: This talent now grants only 3/6/9/12/15% pet damage.
Viper Sting: Now drains a percentage of maximum mana.
Volley: The damage has been reduced on all ranks by approximately 30% (including attack power scaling).


From http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=35140.0

I just specced readiness last week, and was planning on still trying it out for a few heroics before making my decision on switching. Readiness not affecting BW has changed my mind, of course. I knew about the nerf to SS, but didn't think they were going to take away mah BW as well!

Now I'm all flustered on what spec to take. I've never even tried survival, but I am to understand that it will be the new top DPS spec? Also, will the use of volley go the way of the Dodo?

Just looking for some advice before I get back to playing.
#2 Jan 20 2009 at 8:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Volley is still good enough to be used on trash packs, but will likely not be the default spell with 3 or less targets.

SV on the ptr was the highest dps spec, but I'm not sure about the numbers with the slightly lower coefficient as I've been busy and haven't been able to follow it the last week.

I would say that at this point you can pick any given spec and do decent dps. I'd say unless you're at the top end raiding and trying to squeeze out damage you can play as any spec. Of course if you are in that position, you've probably cleared everything and can experiment.

I'm under the impression that SV is currently top dps if you trap dance, not sure otherwise.

There should be a current spreadsheet at the EJ forums, I'd say check it out. There might even be a new thread, as they seem to be trying to avoid the year long threads from the past lately.

Edited, Jan 20th 2009 10:53am by Xsarus
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#3 Jan 20 2009 at 8:57 AM Rating: Decent
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I'll be going 1/19/51 with a raptor/wasp(when we're lacking a feral or balance druid) specced the usual dps way.
#4 Jan 20 2009 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
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/facepalm.

I won't even know what to shoot, and when.

This is going to take a lot of practice.
#5 Jan 20 2009 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
I'll be going 1/19/51 with a raptor/wasp(when we're lacking a feral or balance druid) specced the usual dps way.
Same, except I was going to swap one point from hunting party into sniper training. From what I've seen of the modeling 2 points should be enough, and sniper training is a flat dps upgrade if you manage to use it. Either that or 2/3 EW depending on what my crit is.

I actually really wish there was a spare point to put in scatter shot.

Edited, Jan 20th 2009 12:00pm by Xsarus
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#6 Jan 20 2009 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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As a dedicated BM hunter, I'm... fearful. But, as I enjoy the BM spec and my funny little beasts... I don't expect to change. I guess I'll learn to mash buttons harder/faster/better than before in an effort to compensate for my DPS envy.
#7 Jan 20 2009 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Is BM dead? Ughhhh, I just started my Hunter (now level 28), I have been specing into BM should I respec?
#8 Jan 20 2009 at 10:17 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Is BM dead? Ughhhh, I just started my Hunter (now level 28), I have been specing into BM should I respec?


No *good* hunter is ever dead, but the BM spec has been nerfed a bit, ranking us behind MM and SV specs somewhat in the DPS/Raid Preference aspect of the game. Just remember, it's not just the spec that makes a good addition to the team, it's a player that knows how to use what he(she) has to the best of his(her) ability. Be dependable, be consistant... if you build it, they will come. :)
#9 Jan 20 2009 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Good cause I don't want to change. I like my bear and the spec I am in now. Although I am just leveling at this point obv.
#10 Jan 20 2009 at 10:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think we just became similar to locks. They have a generally accepted leveling spec (affliction) then a raid DPS spec (destro). So if you are leveling, BM will still be great because your pet is just a beast (get it....beast....oh I kill me). Though once you get to level 80 and raiding, it might be wise to drop the BM.
#11 Jan 20 2009 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
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My question is, how significant will be the differences in DPS between the three trees?

How big of a hit will BM hunters take DPS wise? Like, 10-15%, or 20-25%? The changes seem pretty significant, wondering if anyone has any additional info or done more testing.

Does the new SV spec compare to readiness spec pre 3.08, or will I see a decrease in damage comparatively no matter what spec I choose now?

Just more questions on the subject. I'm sure to test it out when I get home, but other people's feelings and results would be nice to see.
#12 Jan 20 2009 at 1:22 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure I'm going to trust anything for a while. We still haven't heard the full force of the QQ'ing from the patch and once we do, Blizz may tweak BM a bit more- who knows.

So if you're levelling and BM, you'll probably be just fine.

If you're end-game and can play the other specs, you'll do okay to switch when you at a good point gear wise (most BM'ers don't gear haste heavily).

If you are stuck in BM and can't handle the other specs (MM was definitely more 'active' of a spec for me, and I haven't done SV yet. I probably won't as trap dancing doesn't sound attractive at all.) then you might still put out more dps as BM then you would as MM or SV. It's a player skill restriction. Nothing wrong at all with that as not everyone can be dexterity on the keyboard master. I know I'm not.

So, play what gives YOU the player the best dps, as end-game, that is what you are mostly there for. Give the other specs a try if you want but if you can't bring their dps up to what you have as BM, then go back to BM and don't worry what everyone else says. You're doing the best you can with the spec you're best at. Nobody can ask for anything more from you, but if a group chooses to not invite you, don't take it personally, they are just looking for a certain level of dps that you might not be able to offer.

I'm BM currently but will probably flip back to MM for end-game as I liked that spec, but that's only if it remains as is by the time I reach end-game and the odds of it staying put for that long are slim to none... ^_^
#13 Jan 20 2009 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Good advice, ty
#14 Jan 20 2009 at 3:01 PM Rating: Default
2/51/18

This looks like it can pump some DPS and be fun. Any comments?
#15 Jan 20 2009 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good
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1,047 posts
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
I'll be going 1/19/51 with a raptor/wasp(when we're lacking a feral or balance druid) specced the usual dps way.


Why not move a point from GftT to max Sniper Training? I'm sure you have enough crit...

I'm using the following myself
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?tal=200000000000000000000000000053051010000000000000000005300002500033330502135301331
Needed the extra point in IAotH because my haste is low, and I skipped Imp Stings for that and Trap Mastery for fights when I do trap dance.
#16 Jan 20 2009 at 8:56 PM Rating: Good
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Just got out of 25 nax a few minutes ago. We cleared spider and plague quarters tonight.

I feel almost useless now. I have been #1-2 every run in 10/25 nax and 10/25 vault. Always fighting for #1 with our lock and barely keeping our mage at #3. I set the meter when we start and leave it run until we're done, as I like to see the total and average contribution for the entire night. Pre-nerf I would go as high 6k on big trash pulls; tonight I could barely hit 3500 on same trash pulls. On boss fights everyone's dps dropped to a normal range and I would hit for around 3k on bosses pre-nerf; tonight I was barely hitting 2500 on bosses.

I finished tonight in 5th on dps, 3rd on total damage. On dps the lock was #1 (3300), the mage #2(3100), a pug dk took #3 (2800), and another mage took #4(2700). Then me at #5 (2500).

During trash pulls volley was way behind everyone. Even a shammy was hitting alot higher dps on trash pulls. I think I was down to like 7-8th place on trash.


There were also a few other hunters but most of them were bottom dps, like mid teens for dps ranks.

I really dont want to spec sv, i tried it before and hated it. I tried mm before and liked it because I felt like I hit as hard as a truck; but questing and what not sucked as pets couldnt keep threat without using fd and md every time it was up.

I will most likely stay bm, and try to find any way possible to keep up my dps and settle for top 5 in raid dps.
#17 Jan 20 2009 at 10:26 PM Rating: Good
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I need the Hit in Focus Aim. How does this look?
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cxbZce0oZe00i0cIhxdAhcd
#18 Jan 21 2009 at 4:18 AM Rating: Default
*sigh*

so much for volley. it was the only channeling spell for my level =/
#19 Jan 21 2009 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
I'm not going to criticize the volley nerf so quickly. I did Naxx last night as well and while my volley was critting for about 2k where it used to be 2600, I still dominated the entire night. I am SV at present and will probably stay that way as my gear supports it very well (14.67 % haste) but I've played all hunter specs and many variations of each.

I supose the difference between me and others is that I will do whatever it takes to insure my spot in a raid and incidentally that is how I ended SV this time.

My suggestion is either do what needs to be done to perform wether it be a change in spec, gear or playstyle. It makes no sense to hold onto an underperforming build because you find part of it aesthetically pleasing and yet still complain about it.

To back up that hunters can still easily perform at the top, here is our WWS from a Naxx clear last night.

http://wowwebstats.com/fh1h35yugcsz3
#20 Jan 21 2009 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
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830 posts
I don't think anyone is 'hanging on' to anything. You need to stay in your old build to compare it against the changes in the patch. Clearly the early Cookie Cutter LK BM build is no longer optimal by my own tests.

Admittedly I'm a casual player with mish-mash gear mostly from Kara and S3 Arena. I haven't been thrilled by much other gear in these early LK levels to do anything but replace my bow.

So, I suppose in "Half Full" mode, I have a chance to try whatever new Cookie Cutter build for BM is popular or switch over to MM. I guess I can gear from now on for haste but I've already passed up a lot of haste gear because I was BM, which means I have to change spec on gear that isn't meant for the spec I'm changing into- ugly is all that is.

In "Half Empty" mode, Blizz seems to have decided to kill the BM spec for a bit to force more over to SV and MM. Who knows, maybe they are watching to see how many Hunters actually switch and how many just muddle through. My only complaint is that in BM, the pet is supposed to rock. Right now, my pet took the biggest hit in the patch, at least according to my pre-patch / post-patch numbers which seems to be the lions share (pardon the pun) of my dps loss.

I'm not QQ'ing, just in a conundrum due to the patch and not exactly sure where to go from here. So, I'm not even hanging on to anything, I'm willing to change, but WHICH WAY is now the operative question!

(edit: my lousy spelling.)

Edited, Jan 21st 2009 3:18pm by sloshot
#21 Jan 26 2009 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
Capra What is your shot rotation ? You seem to be putting out nice dps. Like you said i just can't stay BM and complain i need to make a change.

Edited, Jan 26th 2009 1:53pm by Dzwolf
#22 Jan 26 2009 at 8:21 PM Rating: Decent
At the time of those reports it was a simple

es/ss/ss/ss/es

during LnL proc it goes to

es/ss/es/ss/es

swap in a serpent sting in place of steady shot when needed of course.

I've since specced to aim shot and will play with that tomorrow in a new round of raids and it should up dps slightly.
#23 Jan 27 2009 at 4:53 AM Rating: Decent
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I've seen that the proper rotation for LnL is ES/SS/ES but I haven't seen the reason why. Does back to back ES shots override a tick from the first ES?
#24 Jan 27 2009 at 5:02 AM Rating: Decent
Yes, that is why. By putting any kind of GCD in between you explosive shots, you allow them to do their full damage.
#25 Jan 27 2009 at 9:10 AM Rating: Default
Sketso wrote:
As a dedicated BM hunter, I'm... fearful. But, as I enjoy the BM spec and my funny little beasts... I don't expect to change. I guess I'll learn to mash buttons harder/faster/better than before in an effort to compensate for my DPS envy.



This!
#26 Jan 27 2009 at 11:11 AM Rating: Decent
Capra,

You say es/ss/ss/ss/es So es = Explosive shot but is the ss serpant sting or steady shot both are ss Sorry confused Also with you utilizing aimed shot how are you going to work that into the rotation Thanks

Edited, Jan 27th 2009 2:28pm by Dzwolf
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