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#1 Jan 20 2009 at 3:46 AM Rating: Decent
mmo-champion says the patch is coming out today, though they say it's not official, so I don't know why they would say that, but anyway...edit: there is a screenshot on mmo champion which shows that the patch goes live today. :)

There are 5 mages in my guild, and basically there are 2 learning from the other two of us who top the charts most of the time. We're all FFB, with only very slighly different builds. The top dps mage comes on a little while before the server goes down and announces that FFB is no longer going to be top dps and that she will be spec'ing arcane. :) I told her to focus her magic on me, because I was going to be taking her spot as #1. One of the other mages said that one of us should go ahead and spec frost, to which I agreed, because then I'd have to press fewer buttons, and he could stop having to be scorch *****.

All the silliness aside, and I know there's only been a little bit of testing so far, but are any of you going to be specing into the FB/arc spec? Or changing anything at all?

I'm going to stick with what I have for now, because I think using Power Auras is going to increase my dps, which is adequate for what we're doing, but it will be interesting to see what our top mage will do.

What about you?

Edited, Jan 20th 2009 6:19am by Trilliandent
#2 Jan 20 2009 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
The difference ends up being within about 1-2% of each other (from what I have read). The benefit to the arcane/fireball build is that it will be more stable, but if you have good rng/crit frostfire will win out because of the higher critical numbers. Also, they are going to need a lot more hit and will not have the mana savings either.
#3 Jan 20 2009 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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Anobix the Wise wrote:
will not have the mana savings either.


10% from Arcane concentration can't be too bad, right? Just missing the 3% from Precision. Then again, I guess FB costs more than FFB to begin with, so it'll definitely be noticeable.

Anobix the Wise wrote:
The benefit to the arcane/fireball build is that it will be more stable, but if you have good rng/crit frostfire will win out because of the higher critical numbers.


Stable? If we wanted stable, we would have rolled a DoT class. RNG away, bay-bee.
#4 Jan 20 2009 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
2 weeks ago i had switched from FFB to 58/13/0
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Draka&n=Lardcoma
after watching a 400 dps drop in Recount on level 80 target dummies i wasn't impressed with other than the run "n" gun aspect of the spec
Slow wastes your GCD. Unless you're chill effects are immune.
rotation FFB with glyph, AB. rinse repeat.
that was then....
now 58/3/10
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0Vfh0IzeGuMtxdcZVMc
FFB replaced by FB for extra +hit.
the synergy of stacking resistance talents for Incanter's absorbtion now isn't as effective as per 3.08 nerfs now down to a total of a MAX 5% of mages life.
Meh.
new rotation will probably be FB, AB, MB, AB, MB, FB.
yes with evo getting 2 minutes less on CD and actually using mana gems, rotation could easily be FB, AB, AB, MB, AB, FB
obviously this spec isn't full on raid material.
stacking spirit has been the best thing you can do while remaining hit capped ETC.
Mage armor always on. always.
i'm wearing pre naxx blues and epics. but i have 2 other 80's to gear inc a healer.
/played 93 days

Edited, Jan 20th 2009 11:51am by lardcoma

Edited, Jan 20th 2009 1:43pm by lardcoma
#5 Jan 20 2009 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
lardcoma wrote:
wall of text


That rotation is terrible. And please don't double space every single line or whatever, it's really annoying to read.

That being said, yes, slow is a dps loss because of the GCDs. In 3.08 that won't matter because there will be slowing effects (thunderclap etc) on the boss which works for TtW.

58/3/10 is a viable spec, but then again you are using FB which I don't understand why.

http://elitistjerks.com/f75/

Check out the upcomming mage changes thread, there is a lot of talk in there about arcane rotations and also in the 175 page thread about 3.08 talent discussion.
#6 Jan 20 2009 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
-As you can see its been a while since I've played Full arcane spec as religuosly, as FFB,Raid fire, or full frost.
-I was completely unaware of the "arcane shatter" -AB,AB,AB, AM,Abarr double dip. haven't been to EJ in a month, Bad.
-I was Tossin FB for TtW ensnare on trash, i know absolutely useless for bosses.
-There is more rationale for going into Frost channeling for 10% less mana cost at an expense of stripping the arcane tree to bear bones. for me at least less sprit, range, & damage mit.
settling on http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0Vfu0IdgGuMtxdcZbhc-I'll have to test the dummies after the extra maintence.
Thanks for the input, yay 176 pages @EJ. -_-


Edited, Jan 20th 2009 2:48pm by lardcoma
#7 Jan 20 2009 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
Thank you for fixing the previous post.


I apologize if I came off as an *** in my response to you, it wasn't meant to be stated in such a way to have that feeling.

Yeah, the new "Arcane shatter" is brand new in 3.08 making arcane much more viable and such, but will depend heavily on having a consistent latency I would say.

I agree with your about the frost channelling. Granted if one is going into deep arcane it is possible to have a heavy arcane + frost build, but most end at 11 in frost to get icy veins, otherwise you are giving up too many good arcane talents for the arcane spells.
#8 Jan 20 2009 at 1:52 PM Rating: Decent
Its all good, I've been trolling but rarely posting in the 2 years here, and respect your opinion immensely.

-WITHOUTusing slow for TtW on level 80 test dummy
2.1k dps using AB,AB,AB,AM,Abarr. Not jumpin the gun on additional AM procs. Mana gem glyph, mage armor glyph, mana gem every CD and evo every CD. inc 1 runic mana pot 8.2 minutes constant DPM other than Evo in my crap gear. 253 Latency BTW
-I'm content, its around the same #'s I was posting with FFB spec prepatch. I'll have to try out deep fire/ arcane for mana regen next, but thats another post better suited for another topic.

Edited, Jan 20th 2009 5:11pm by lardcoma
#9 Jan 20 2009 at 4:39 PM Rating: Good
Dummies are one thing, I would wait until you get a chance with raid buffs (or at least theorycraft it with Rawr or simulcraft).
#10 Jan 21 2009 at 12:23 AM Rating: Decent
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This evening I tried out a 57/3/11 spec w/all the damage increasing or mana regen boosting talents in the arcane tree and arcane blast/mage armor/arcane power glyphs. It was fun to try out for a 25 man OS and one wing of Naxx 10 but I switched back to FFB already.

Even with the increase in dps in the arcane tree it feels a bit underwhelming and our raid missed the 10% spell crit boost from Improved Scorch (only 1 mage, myself).
#11 Jan 21 2009 at 3:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,180 posts
I've already made my switch... to shadow priest (but no more on that front incase Poldaran Karma-camps me :P)

I think I may go back to frost on my mage, she'll probably only be needed for 10mans, and then either alt runs or decursing/dealing with adds. I think for add duty frost will be much more use, but from an overall dps view I realise it's not going to be anything special.

I did try arcane on the test realm, but it just wasn't as fun as I was expecting it to be (I did try it pre-wrath in BT and for some reason I liked it more then than I do now, even though it's essentially the same).
#12 Jan 21 2009 at 5:10 AM Rating: Decent
Our top dps mage decided not to switch, especially when she discovered something else about hit cap. So we all ran FFB again tonite. One of our "proteges" stopped using firebolt and discovered that he could join the other two of us in the top three. :)

I did have someone question my abilities as mage class officer when I didn't have everyone immediately spec to the obviously superior arcane raiding spec, but, well, he ended up on ignore, and I'm still class officer.


I'm still having fun with ffb. So are the other 2 chart-toppers in the guild. It would take a LOT to get any of us to switch, though I am trying to talk one into becoming our "focus magic" *****. So, we'd have "focus magic" ***** and "scorch *****."

But I doubt we'll all three continue to raid in the same group, so, that'd only be the funnest in 25 man.

I'm still firmly rooted in ffb and doin well. :)
#13 Jan 21 2009 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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I orginally was an arcane mage...I switched to FFB spec cause arcane wasnt cutting it for raids in naxx. Last night I went back to Arcane Spec and I was in 2-3rd place most of the night. darn Shadowpriest and there broken dps :P Arcane is rather fun :P . was getting crit missle hits of 3-4k a piece for over 15k damage and I was getting arcane barrage and blast crits for over 10k. never ran out of mana..had gems and evocation(2min Cd)I never had to use a mana pot. I loved arcane before, but I am really loving it now and I can raid with it too
#14 Jan 21 2009 at 8:22 PM Rating: Good
using molten or mage armor? if you aren't having mana problems with mage armor use molten.
#15 Jan 21 2009 at 10:18 PM Rating: Decent
http://wowwebstats.com/5fgxzximmhub1


That's our WWS from 25 Naxx tonight. Saiyan was FFB last week and did 2911 DPS and went arcane this week. Yalla is still FFB. Saiyan seemed to like arcane for this run and it did help his overall DPS.
#16 Jan 21 2009 at 10:53 PM Rating: Good
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One of our mages went Arcane as well and found himself doing very strong DPS(he actually outDPSed me on bosses). We were shy our usual Moonkin, so I'm curious to see how it stacks up with some Boom from the kin.
#17 Jan 22 2009 at 4:57 AM Rating: Decent
I made the switch =), was kinda getting tired of how rng is such a big part of ffb's dps.
Went on a 25 naxx later on that night, and...i think i did great, using the ab x3 then arcane barrage with the usual missile barrage. I thought it would be heavy on mana, but i did totally fine with molten armor on and with evocation's 2 min cd..it is fun...can almost get 3 burn phase on bosses (the ab/pom/iv/trinket/gem)

I kinda like the fact that arcane doenst' so heavy on crit...hated i was 500+ dps before i was having bad luck =(

but over all, is fun.... seeing barrage can crit 10k+ =3

Edited, Jan 22nd 2009 8:00am by ocolloco
#18 Jan 23 2009 at 6:12 AM Rating: Decent
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
One of our mages went Arcane as well and found himself doing very strong DPS(he actually outDPSed me on bosses). We were shy our usual Moonkin, so I'm curious to see how it stacks up with some Boom from the kin.


We've trying hard to get spriest/boomkin in our raids. But as of now, the mage gear is suffering heavily (though we have relief in our bank for when hit isn't such a heavy burden). 3% is a lot. :)
#19 Jan 23 2009 at 10:02 AM Rating: Decent
- Raid buffs = Sick Dpm.
- 25 Vault posted last night 2563 DPS #5 on meters and 8 in total Damage fully raid buffed, Mage Armor, Elixir of SP, Elixer of spirit, Blackend Basilisk for mp5 and focus magic on a boomkin :D Didn't have to Evo once.
- Able to spam AB when necessary to beat the enrage.
Got outrolled for Tier Chest by the only other mage on the run; wearing 4 pieces of Heroes Frostfire. -_- Did 10 man after got my gloves. I love when i pop Pom, get back to back Forge ember and and sundial procs hit over 3k SP and crit for 16k, happy yes. can it get more sick, definately.

- in 5's this week averaged around 2100 DPS in Heroics, Mage armor, Tender Shoveltusk, no elixers.
- I'll have to get web stats to post the proof this week.

Edited, Jan 23rd 2009 1:06pm by lardcoma
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