So after sitting on the self for over a year, I decided to fire up my old Pally. It is level 45 Ret spec with a 2H AX. I notice when I grab a mob, I hit it with judgment then start swinging, sometimes the damage is in the 600-1000 range depending if it crits, this is on a level 40-45 mob with 1600-2000 HP. What I notice is, it takes the appropriate amount of HP loss upon my first attack, then the mob gets what I estimate to 200-500 HP back. Checking the combat log I don't see it healing, or showing any HP back. It also doesn't seem to matter what seal I am using. This has been happening for the last few days.
Like I said, I am new to all the new pally stuff, so sorry in advance if I am missing something.
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hitting mob, it gets HP backFollow
I've noticed this before to. The question I have to ask is: did you take Vindication?
Vindication, when it procs, lowers a mob's stats by 20%, which lowers its HP pool as well (whether it be directly lowering HP or sta). So in a sense the mob isn't really "gaining" HP, its max HP is reduced to a number closer to what its current HP is after you swung at it.
Vindication, when it procs, lowers a mob's stats by 20%, which lowers its HP pool as well (whether it be directly lowering HP or sta). So in a sense the mob isn't really "gaining" HP, its max HP is reduced to a number closer to what its current HP is after you swung at it.
26 posts
More than likely it is server lag. I've seen this happen several times on different toons.
Quote:
I've noticed this before to. The question I have to ask is: did you take Vindication?
Vindication, when it procs, lowers a mob's stats by 20%, which lowers its HP pool as well (whether it be directly lowering HP or sta). So in a sense the mob isn't really "gaining" HP, its max HP is reduced to a number closer to what its current HP is after you swung at it.
Vindication, when it procs, lowers a mob's stats by 20%, which lowers its HP pool as well (whether it be directly lowering HP or sta). So in a sense the mob isn't really "gaining" HP, its max HP is reduced to a number closer to what its current HP is after you swung at it.
I do have Vindication, this must be what's happening. Thanks.
I don't take vindication for PVP just for this purpose... Too often it procs and bumps their HP over 20% ruining what I thought was gonna be a Hammer of Wrath finisher. Also, PvP ret builds tend to struggle finding witch talents to skim out. PvE rets are different and jsut get everything.
Actually I also have seen this issue however I don't think that it is Vindication (on mobs at least) because the effect of Vindication lasts for 15 seconds and at 80 (and 70 previously) it was a very rare mob that lasted that long so it might be something else.
5 posts
So you're doing damage, but then vindication becomes active and the damage you have done has become useless. So, use the new pull/aggro spell (hand or reckoning) before you attack a mob. It will allways activate vindication so it will lower the mobs health before you hit him. That way you don't lose the damage because of vindication activating after a couple of hits, because it will activate 100% of the time with hand of reckoning. :) It may not be a lot, but it's still better than putting your judgement on a cooldown to do damage, and then so see the judgement was useless because the mob has max HP again because of vindication activating during the fight.
RichardvdD wrote:
So you're doing damage, but then vindication becomes active and the damage you have done has become useless.
Mob has 20 stamina.
Mob has 200/200 (100%) health.
You hit mob for 20 health.
Mob has 180/200 (90%) health.
Vindication pops and decreases mob's stats by 20%.
Mob has 16 stamina.
Mob has 160/160 (100%) health.
Hopefully the colors and change of writing made it clear enough.
Before Vindication procced, the mob had a 'current health' of 180 out of a 'maximum health' of 200. The health bar would display the percentage which is 90%. When Vindication procced, the mob's maximum health dropped to 160, and since your current health can never exceed your maximum health, the current health also dropped to 160. The health bar would then have to compensate because now the mob has 160/160 health which is 100%. So when you watch the health bar, it does seem like the mob receives health from Vindication, but keep an eye on the current and maximum health values as well. You'll notice them drop.
Edited, Feb 14th 2009 6:57pm by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
The thing I hate about Vindication, though, is that if it wears off, they seem to gain HP back.
Or at least it used to? Maybe it was a bug and they fixed it... but using Mazra's example...
Mob has 16 stamina and you take it down to 40/160.
Vindication wears off for whatever reason, and the mob gains 4 stamina.
Now the mob has 80/200.
I don't know if it still works like like that now, but I'm pretty sure it did. Maybe it didn't, but I coulda sworn I remember that happening. It is kinda rare; it isn't often that Vindication will actually full out wear off, but sometimes if the RNG is unkind to you, sometimes it can.
Or at least it used to? Maybe it was a bug and they fixed it... but using Mazra's example...
Mob has 16 stamina and you take it down to 40/160.
Vindication wears off for whatever reason, and the mob gains 4 stamina.
Now the mob has 80/200.
I don't know if it still works like like that now, but I'm pretty sure it did. Maybe it didn't, but I coulda sworn I remember that happening. It is kinda rare; it isn't often that Vindication will actually full out wear off, but sometimes if the RNG is unkind to you, sometimes it can.
Color me clueless, but why would the mob go from 40/160 to 80/200? Your current health does not go up when your stamina does. It's one of those funny little things. If you have 100/200 health and someone gives you a health buff (ie. Blood Pact) of, say, 50 health, your maximum and current health is increased by that value, instantly putting you at 150/250 health (in other words, you received 50 health). However, when your stamina stat is increased it only affects your maximum health, not your current.
Try unequipping some armor with +stamina on it, then equip it again. You'll notice that you do not receive the health immediately, but instead have to wait for your health regen to fill your health pool.
So to use your example, it would go from 40/160 (25%) to 40/200 (20%) when Vindication fades, actually causing a drop in percentage (reverse effect of what you see when Vindication kicks in).
Try unequipping some armor with +stamina on it, then equip it again. You'll notice that you do not receive the health immediately, but instead have to wait for your health regen to fill your health pool.
So to use your example, it would go from 40/160 (25%) to 40/200 (20%) when Vindication fades, actually causing a drop in percentage (reverse effect of what you see when Vindication kicks in).
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Mazra wrote:
Color me clueless, but why would the mob go from 40/160 to 80/200? Your current health does not go up when your stamina does. It's one of those funny little things. If you have 100/200 health and someone gives you a health buff (ie. Blood Pact) of, say, 50 health, your maximum and current health is increased by that value, instantly putting you at 150/250 health (in other words, you received 50 health). However, when your stamina stat is increased it only affects your maximum health, not your current.
Try unequipping some armor with +stamina on it, then equip it again. You'll notice that you do not receive the health immediately, but instead have to wait for your health regen to fill your health pool.
So to use your example, it would go from 40/160 (25%) to 40/200 (20%) when Vindication fades, actually causing a drop in percentage (reverse effect of what you see when Vindication kicks in).
Try unequipping some armor with +stamina on it, then equip it again. You'll notice that you do not receive the health immediately, but instead have to wait for your health regen to fill your health pool.
So to use your example, it would go from 40/160 (25%) to 40/200 (20%) when Vindication fades, actually causing a drop in percentage (reverse effect of what you see when Vindication kicks in).
You sure?
huh.
I coulda sworn otherwise, but maybe not. My memory isn't good enough to remember that, so I'll take your word for that, at least until dual-spec hits live, which probably won't be for quite awhile lol. That and I probably won't take vindication this time around anyways.
I've fought ret paladins and then dispelled their Vindication. My current health doesn't change, and my percent of remaining health goes down when I do.
For Zariamnk:
Above indicates a health bar. Every colon indicates 10% health, red for existing health and blue for lost health. The above health is at 70% (200 minus 60 = 140, which is 70% of 200), and the vertical line indicates the current health which is 140. Below is what happens when Vindication is applied.
As you can see, Vindication caused the maximum health to drop by 20%, which is 40 health points in the above example. This means the new maximum health is 160, but the current health is still 140. As you remember, I mentioned that 140 was 70% of 200, but now that the maximum health is down to 160, it's actually 87.5%, so on the health bar the current health would appear to go up.
Now, whatever effect takes place when Vindication is applied, the opposite has to happen when Vindication is removed.
It's really as simple as that, but if you haven't thought about it, it can be hard to wrap your head around. And I'm by no means a shark at math (I almost flunked it in high school), so forgive me if it's a bit off.
Edited, Feb 17th 2009 2:22pm by Mazra
[0]::::::::::::::|140|::::::|200]
Above indicates a health bar. Every colon indicates 10% health, red for existing health and blue for lost health. The above health is at 70% (200 minus 60 = 140, which is 70% of 200), and the vertical line indicates the current health which is 140. Below is what happens when Vindication is applied.
[0]::::::::::::::|140|::::::[200] [0]::::::::::::::::::|140|::[160]
As you can see, Vindication caused the maximum health to drop by 20%, which is 40 health points in the above example. This means the new maximum health is 160, but the current health is still 140. As you remember, I mentioned that 140 was 70% of 200, but now that the maximum health is down to 160, it's actually 87.5%, so on the health bar the current health would appear to go up.
Now, whatever effect takes place when Vindication is applied, the opposite has to happen when Vindication is removed.
[0]::::::::::::::::::|140|::[160] [0]::::::::::::::|140|::::::[200]
It's really as simple as that, but if you haven't thought about it, it can be hard to wrap your head around. And I'm by no means a shark at math (I almost flunked it in high school), so forgive me if it's a bit off.
Edited, Feb 17th 2009 2:22pm by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
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