So, I know ice block and mirror images and invis. They help me. However, there are some groups where none of that helps. Do I just scorch the whole time? Seriously, I love it when I can go all out (hello pally tank), and not have to worry about it..
But, what, besides MI and invis will reduce threat. IB doesn't, though it helps a bit. Sometimes I'm top on threat from LB on. I don't want to be a healing burden or an annoyance to the tank. I just want to be able to do the most dps I can do, because, besides being a vendor machine and a travel agent, that's the only job I have left.
Help? :)
P.S. Talkin about 5mans, don't have this problem in raids.
edit: I actually did have this problem in raids with trash, but not with the same ppl,
Edited, Jan 14th 2009 6:31am by Trilliandent
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Pulling aggro (Threat management)
Pulling aggro (Threat management)Follow
Don't go with terribad tanks. There really isn't anything else you can do, you should not be having threat issues. Did you pick up burning soul or frost channelling?
Without looking, I know I have frost channeling. Not sure about Burning soul.
But i see so many threads where tanks are like, omfg, dps is not being RESPONSIBLE. I like it when I can go all out but I would also like to know some threat management techniques besides the ones I have. If there are any. :)
But i see so many threads where tanks are like, omfg, dps is not being RESPONSIBLE. I like it when I can go all out but I would also like to know some threat management techniques besides the ones I have. If there are any. :)
19 posts
This might not be that helpfull in the general case, but when doing 5 mans i usally put LB on the target to engage.
Then i follow this by a blizzard
Nuke single target.
If it is a longer aoe fight i use mirror-image to reduce threat and go all out on aoe.
Spawn mobs might be a pain since LB might go off as the npc's spawn creatures and i gain aggro.
But mostly it's up to the tank, if he can't aoe tank then don't use aoe.
If he is a bad aoe tank, go slow aoe and mix in some single target nuking.
As for raids, there is possible to pull aggro but then u go mirror image from start,
after 30s => invisibility( I'm not sure how this work it seems as all threat is gone by just go inivisible for a second but according to posts it should decrease threat over time, let Anobix answer that detail).
On eye i save the inivisibility until the nuking phase(rift bonus).
Then i follow this by a blizzard
Nuke single target.
If it is a longer aoe fight i use mirror-image to reduce threat and go all out on aoe.
Spawn mobs might be a pain since LB might go off as the npc's spawn creatures and i gain aggro.
But mostly it's up to the tank, if he can't aoe tank then don't use aoe.
If he is a bad aoe tank, go slow aoe and mix in some single target nuking.
As for raids, there is possible to pull aggro but then u go mirror image from start,
after 30s => invisibility( I'm not sure how this work it seems as all threat is gone by just go inivisible for a second but according to posts it should decrease threat over time, let Anobix answer that detail).
On eye i save the inivisibility until the nuking phase(rift bonus).
Yeah, I love it when i can see the pally's consecrate and aoe right there. I'm not sure what you mean by blizzarding and single-targetting, though.
I know about the threat bug with the MI. I believe I'll be trying MI during the vortex, as well as fireblast, blastwave and AE, during Malygos.
but in 5mans, I don't really fancy invis as something I use every cd...
I'm just looking for a way to lower the threat in 5mans. Maybe it's 1 less FFB or one less something? Idk.
That's what I'm asking.
Can I honestly say that the tank sucks if I can pull mobs/bosses off of him? I don't think so.
I know about the threat bug with the MI. I believe I'll be trying MI during the vortex, as well as fireblast, blastwave and AE, during Malygos.
but in 5mans, I don't really fancy invis as something I use every cd...
I'm just looking for a way to lower the threat in 5mans. Maybe it's 1 less FFB or one less something? Idk.
That's what I'm asking.
Can I honestly say that the tank sucks if I can pull mobs/bosses off of him? I don't think so.
Well it does depend on the boss, if they have an aggro drop or are constantly moving around then let the tank get some aggro first. If it is a tank and spank you should not be pulling off of a [similarly geared] tank. If you are in epics and they are in greens you are going to have to go really slow.
If you get the newest Omen you can now see your threat with MI up (they have to add 4 million and change to your threat to get the correct number -- thank you EJ!). So that way you know how close you will be when you get out of the MI buff (30 seconds) if you have a chance at pulling, with 3 seconds left pop invis you will be at 0 (or whatever you let it get to) when you come out and should have no aggro problems at all.
If you get the newest Omen you can now see your threat with MI up (they have to add 4 million and change to your threat to get the correct number -- thank you EJ!). So that way you know how close you will be when you get out of the MI buff (30 seconds) if you have a chance at pulling, with 3 seconds left pop invis you will be at 0 (or whatever you let it get to) when you come out and should have no aggro problems at all.
As a tank (paly) and a mage:
First and foremost - Follow kill order. Do not progress to the next target until the first one is dead or will die in 1 hit. Stand far away - you get a Agro-reducing stat from standing about 30 yards away.(anobix plz correct for proper yds) So - 1k damage at 1 yd away is greater threat than 1k damage at 40 yds.
Large Pull management -
Example: 4 pulls in H. UK. Please apply CC where and only when I ask for it. If I ask you to sheep - you should keep sheep up until I am ready to kill the mob - that means Re-Apply it if it breaks or runs out. Please realize that IF I ask you not to apply it - I expect you'll wait for me to gather all the mobs on me. (Most 4 pulls there have the mobs in a Square box shape - Think about the pull prior to boss 1)
If I shield the mobs - At best I hit two of them. If I'm running inbound to Consecrate and let them gather on me - then suddenly I see you're damn Pyro going over my head - that's a problem. Give me a minute to get them on me. My shield only hit 2 of them, the other two are weakly agro'd.
Stupid DPS problems -
Example: Happened to me twice in the last few days. Warriors are the biggest culprit, but paly and DK are guilty too...
Warrior issue: I'm wearing plate - thus I'll just off tank the X. I (As the MT) indend to Shield, Gather, Consecrate, Hammer... etc... So - I fire my shield, I'm running in - and I hear that idiot War. sound of Charge. Then - one of my mobs is stun'd and I can't gather properly....
Paly issue: I'm a Ret Paly - I stun crap and then hit it. Same basic pull, however, suddenly there's that little "Stunned" symbol over the mobs head, the Ret Paly's spinning like a freaking idiot - pulling all the agro in the world. I'm not getting hit - so the Ret aura I asked that moron to put up is not building threat. He's blown all of his CD...
DK issue: I used to be a warlock, but now I'm in Plate - I know that pally has 4 mobs neatly stacked around him.... I'll use that damn "DK Pull" tool that's really a PVP or anti-caster/kiter tool to pull one of his mobs out... Since i'm in plate, it's cool...
All three of those stupid mistakes have happened in the last few days. They cause me to focus on getting back agro. YES - those plate wearers will live through it, but the healer must heal them - The Plate wearer doesn't have a +agro buff. thus - often times the healer draws agro. What do my good mages do? They nuke the idiot's pull - why? - cause when the idiot loses agro - they frost nova, attempt to sheep - anything to keep mobs off my healer - They know I can take the hits - so long as the healer is ok... thus we end up with agro splattered everywhere, I'm running around and not taking advantage of any of my Shield or +Block value. My agro from consecrate is being wasted on an empty spot where I indended to tank the mobs. The agro from my +heal Judgement is being wasted. I'm waiting on shield to get of cooldown. My 3-mob hammer is a waste - none of the mobs are grouped up thus I get 1 mob maybe 2....
Meanwhile - the idiot plate wearer is /w me about agro problems and why I'm ******** up.
From my experience it's melee who ***** up the agro relationships between me and my mobs. That causes me to react. Usually causing a high spike damage toon (like a mage) to magically crit twice, freeze the mob, then IL before they realize - I'm running the other way to save the perfect demonstration of Peter's Principle that is many DPS Warriors & DK.
Edited, Jan 14th 2009 12:04pm by Borsuk
First and foremost - Follow kill order. Do not progress to the next target until the first one is dead or will die in 1 hit. Stand far away - you get a Agro-reducing stat from standing about 30 yards away.(anobix plz correct for proper yds) So - 1k damage at 1 yd away is greater threat than 1k damage at 40 yds.
Large Pull management -
Example: 4 pulls in H. UK. Please apply CC where and only when I ask for it. If I ask you to sheep - you should keep sheep up until I am ready to kill the mob - that means Re-Apply it if it breaks or runs out. Please realize that IF I ask you not to apply it - I expect you'll wait for me to gather all the mobs on me. (Most 4 pulls there have the mobs in a Square box shape - Think about the pull prior to boss 1)
If I shield the mobs - At best I hit two of them. If I'm running inbound to Consecrate and let them gather on me - then suddenly I see you're damn Pyro going over my head - that's a problem. Give me a minute to get them on me. My shield only hit 2 of them, the other two are weakly agro'd.
Stupid DPS problems -
Example: Happened to me twice in the last few days. Warriors are the biggest culprit, but paly and DK are guilty too...
Warrior issue: I'm wearing plate - thus I'll just off tank the X. I (As the MT) indend to Shield, Gather, Consecrate, Hammer... etc... So - I fire my shield, I'm running in - and I hear that idiot War. sound of Charge. Then - one of my mobs is stun'd and I can't gather properly....
Paly issue: I'm a Ret Paly - I stun crap and then hit it. Same basic pull, however, suddenly there's that little "Stunned" symbol over the mobs head, the Ret Paly's spinning like a freaking idiot - pulling all the agro in the world. I'm not getting hit - so the Ret aura I asked that moron to put up is not building threat. He's blown all of his CD...
DK issue: I used to be a warlock, but now I'm in Plate - I know that pally has 4 mobs neatly stacked around him.... I'll use that damn "DK Pull" tool that's really a PVP or anti-caster/kiter tool to pull one of his mobs out... Since i'm in plate, it's cool...
All three of those stupid mistakes have happened in the last few days. They cause me to focus on getting back agro. YES - those plate wearers will live through it, but the healer must heal them - The Plate wearer doesn't have a +agro buff. thus - often times the healer draws agro. What do my good mages do? They nuke the idiot's pull - why? - cause when the idiot loses agro - they frost nova, attempt to sheep - anything to keep mobs off my healer - They know I can take the hits - so long as the healer is ok... thus we end up with agro splattered everywhere, I'm running around and not taking advantage of any of my Shield or +Block value. My agro from consecrate is being wasted on an empty spot where I indended to tank the mobs. The agro from my +heal Judgement is being wasted. I'm waiting on shield to get of cooldown. My 3-mob hammer is a waste - none of the mobs are grouped up thus I get 1 mob maybe 2....
Meanwhile - the idiot plate wearer is /w me about agro problems and why I'm ******** up.
From my experience it's melee who ***** up the agro relationships between me and my mobs. That causes me to react. Usually causing a high spike damage toon (like a mage) to magically crit twice, freeze the mob, then IL before they realize - I'm running the other way to save the perfect demonstration of Peter's Principle that is many DPS Warriors & DK.
Edited, Jan 14th 2009 12:04pm by Borsuk
Honestly as I sit now with 1741 sp, 27.4% crit unbuffed I do run into aggro problems at times, and even with very good tanks. Like mentioned Pally tanks are usually the best at holding threat, at least from my experiences, a warrior is decent, especially with a Vigilance on me (and even when I pull they are always on top of their game with taunting back and intercepting) and DK's... honestly if I try hard enough I'll be tankin lol, and I cant seem to find any Tanking feral druids anymore since cat form dps is waaaay OP especially for Feral being the "tanking" spec. Raids I usually never have threat issues, except fights like Thaddius where I always need a HoS. 5 man's are a different story though. On those short boss fights, if i pop my trinks right off the bat i'll pull in 5 seconds unless I use mirror image. And then when MI ends I'm usually about 1% from pulling. I believe at range you can go up to 136% on Omen? something like that.
TLDR: FFB does put out crazy threat, and numerous very good tanks i've ran with have pointed this out to me. I'll be in a group where a lock will do 25% more dmg than me, only because i had to stop so i didnt pull, yet he was way low on aggro. And on alot of those fights Invis cant be used because you're taking constant dmg.
TLDR: FFB does put out crazy threat, and numerous very good tanks i've ran with have pointed this out to me. I'll be in a group where a lock will do 25% more dmg than me, only because i had to stop so i didnt pull, yet he was way low on aggro. And on alot of those fights Invis cant be used because you're taking constant dmg.
Don't forget that you can use invis in the last couple seconds of icy veins to avoid interruption.
14 posts
Here are a few suggestions that seem to work for me though I’m a deep frost mage and it may or may not help you but might help others. This applies to 5 man and 5 man heroics. I’ve only done one WotLK raid so far so I’m not going to say this works on them too. And DO get a good threat meter as others have stated above.
Tell the tank, BEFORE starting, to mark what he wants sheep with ____ (I use moon. If no moon then no sheep). WoWWikki has a nice sheep macro that makes reapplying easy without loosing main target.
On pulls of three or more mods: I target the tank. Tank runs in and I hit my target assist button (unless tank has marked main target). Fire one FB at tank’s target (if Pally. Two if Warrior) then blizzard until one mob is left then nuke till dead.
On pulls of one or two mods: Target as mentioned above and nuke primary then secondary target.
If I ever pull aggro, I stop dpsing and run toward the tank so tank can regain aggro on mob then go back to my spot and start dpsing again.
Note that I said run toward the tank. This is if there is not a lot of aoe from the mob so the above will work on almost all trash pulls I’ve seen so far.
If mob goes after healer then frost nova and ONE ice lance as I’m running toward the tank. Rarely has this not pulled a mob off the healer. Any more than this and it will be hard for tank to regain agro when it gets back in range.
On boss: Ask tank BEFORE the boss fight, if he wants you to focus on boss or pickup add if they spawn. Tank takes off, I bring out WE and MI, nuke two or three times then hit trinket/Icy Veins and keep nuking. Switch to add if needed. WE despawns, cold snap and start all over. Ice block if I ever pull agro on a boss. Our guild tank is a well geared Pally so boss is usually dead before second WE despawns.
Note to all tanks: It helps to mark the primary and secondary targets in each pull. Then party members don’t have to retarget you and hit the target assist to make sure we are on the same target as you which interrupts dps. A lot of tanks have gotten lazy here lately about not marking. Then you want to gripe about my dps? I did two runs in the same pug group the other day. The tank marked most of the pulls on the first run but did not mark any on second run. My dps went down on the second run when it should have gone up since it was a second run with the same people. But that’s off topic so I’ll stop there.
Hope this helps. And if anyone thinks something else would work better, tell us and I’ll give it a try. I love to experiment with different tactics. Keeps it from getting boring.
Tell the tank, BEFORE starting, to mark what he wants sheep with ____ (I use moon. If no moon then no sheep). WoWWikki has a nice sheep macro that makes reapplying easy without loosing main target.
On pulls of three or more mods: I target the tank. Tank runs in and I hit my target assist button (unless tank has marked main target). Fire one FB at tank’s target (if Pally. Two if Warrior) then blizzard until one mob is left then nuke till dead.
On pulls of one or two mods: Target as mentioned above and nuke primary then secondary target.
If I ever pull aggro, I stop dpsing and run toward the tank so tank can regain aggro on mob then go back to my spot and start dpsing again.
Note that I said run toward the tank. This is if there is not a lot of aoe from the mob so the above will work on almost all trash pulls I’ve seen so far.
If mob goes after healer then frost nova and ONE ice lance as I’m running toward the tank. Rarely has this not pulled a mob off the healer. Any more than this and it will be hard for tank to regain agro when it gets back in range.
On boss: Ask tank BEFORE the boss fight, if he wants you to focus on boss or pickup add if they spawn. Tank takes off, I bring out WE and MI, nuke two or three times then hit trinket/Icy Veins and keep nuking. Switch to add if needed. WE despawns, cold snap and start all over. Ice block if I ever pull agro on a boss. Our guild tank is a well geared Pally so boss is usually dead before second WE despawns.
Note to all tanks: It helps to mark the primary and secondary targets in each pull. Then party members don’t have to retarget you and hit the target assist to make sure we are on the same target as you which interrupts dps. A lot of tanks have gotten lazy here lately about not marking. Then you want to gripe about my dps? I did two runs in the same pug group the other day. The tank marked most of the pulls on the first run but did not mark any on second run. My dps went down on the second run when it should have gone up since it was a second run with the same people. But that’s off topic so I’ll stop there.
Hope this helps. And if anyone thinks something else would work better, tell us and I’ll give it a try. I love to experiment with different tactics. Keeps it from getting boring.
Thanks for all the tips, especially this one:
Stand far away - you get a Agro-reducing stat from standing about 30 yards away.(anobix plz correct for proper yds) So - 1k damage at 1 yd away is greater threat than 1k damage at 40 yds.
I didn't know that. I do try to stand back, but sometimes in close quarters it's hard to do, and sometimes I'm lazy about it. :)
Quote:
Stand far away - you get a Agro-reducing stat from standing about 30 yards away.(anobix plz correct for proper yds) So - 1k damage at 1 yd away is greater threat than 1k damage at 40 yds.
I didn't know that. I do try to stand back, but sometimes in close quarters it's hard to do, and sometimes I'm lazy about it. :)
Yep, and some people ask me why I stand so far away.
Yeah there are 3 distances, melee, 10yd, and 30yd -- 0% reduction, 110%, 130%
The yardadge thing isn't actually a debuff its simply a "reaction function" which basically sets it up so that you're building the same threat, but you have 10%/30% more before the monster stops attacking melees and starts for you. Essentially the monster is thinking "well he has more threat but should I spend the time to get over to him."
You will see this clear as day in H Gundrak near and including Eck with the bounces. When they hop away from the tank, not only does the tank lose the fact that he's in range, but often a caster is now closer. You will see yourself on Omen not switching places in threat but simply being closer than the tank making your threat sufficient enough to grab agro.
To OP. A big thing to look at is who you are having as tanks. Paladins at 80 with any sort of gear push out great TPS, but have to build for their HP and Mitigation and are lacking versus casters. Warriors at 80 are spoonfed mitigation and HP but have to work at building threat and are quite limited at continuous buildup of Multiple targets. Druids at 80 are a stats powerhouse with a somewhat low soft cap on threat production and limited to 3-4 monsters and are also lacking versus casters. DKs at 80 are build with mid-grade everything but have to gear for excellent anything, although they are bar none the best tanks for casters.
Furthermore, all of these tanks can Taunt "up to" a threat level except the Paladin. This means on raids for offtanks and such, probobly the worst bet is a Paladin since they can build a ton of threat over time but are bad at instantly placing themselves on the threat chart for more than 3 seconds - that is unless the MT is a paladin too in which case they can both go all out. This also means that as a paladin having someone pull agro off you is somewhat of an unsalvagable situation and highly depends on the reaction of the one who pulled it in the first place.
Also, with the exception of Druids and Paladins, you can't really expect a tank undergeared to you be able to hold proper threat. Sometimes you just need to bow-out of a heroic before you get yourself saved because you just know its not the right group setup. A good tank that knows his stuff and is at the same gear level as you will not give you trouble.
Edited, Jan 14th 2009 8:16pm by tzsjynx
You will see this clear as day in H Gundrak near and including Eck with the bounces. When they hop away from the tank, not only does the tank lose the fact that he's in range, but often a caster is now closer. You will see yourself on Omen not switching places in threat but simply being closer than the tank making your threat sufficient enough to grab agro.
To OP. A big thing to look at is who you are having as tanks. Paladins at 80 with any sort of gear push out great TPS, but have to build for their HP and Mitigation and are lacking versus casters. Warriors at 80 are spoonfed mitigation and HP but have to work at building threat and are quite limited at continuous buildup of Multiple targets. Druids at 80 are a stats powerhouse with a somewhat low soft cap on threat production and limited to 3-4 monsters and are also lacking versus casters. DKs at 80 are build with mid-grade everything but have to gear for excellent anything, although they are bar none the best tanks for casters.
Furthermore, all of these tanks can Taunt "up to" a threat level except the Paladin. This means on raids for offtanks and such, probobly the worst bet is a Paladin since they can build a ton of threat over time but are bad at instantly placing themselves on the threat chart for more than 3 seconds - that is unless the MT is a paladin too in which case they can both go all out. This also means that as a paladin having someone pull agro off you is somewhat of an unsalvagable situation and highly depends on the reaction of the one who pulled it in the first place.
Also, with the exception of Druids and Paladins, you can't really expect a tank undergeared to you be able to hold proper threat. Sometimes you just need to bow-out of a heroic before you get yourself saved because you just know its not the right group setup. A good tank that knows his stuff and is at the same gear level as you will not give you trouble.
Edited, Jan 14th 2009 8:16pm by tzsjynx
Awesome information. Thanks! :)
tzsjynx Wrote:
Thanks - that's a more accurate way of describing it.
However - As a mage who now rolls a Tankadin - it drives me crazy when anyone who can Cast, shoot, channel or throw crap at the mob is standing next to me. GET BACK!
Quote:
The yardadge thing isn't actually a debuff its simply a "reaction function" which basically sets it up so that you're building the same threat, but you have 10%/30% more before the monster stops attacking melees and starts for you. Essentially the monster is thinking "well he has more threat but should I spend the time to get over to him."
Thanks - that's a more accurate way of describing it.
However - As a mage who now rolls a Tankadin - it drives me crazy when anyone who can Cast, shoot, channel or throw crap at the mob is standing next to me. GET BACK!
Borsuk wrote:
However - As a mage who now rolls a Tankadin - it drives me crazy when anyone who can Cast, shoot, channel or throw crap at the mob is standing next to me. GET BACK!
But how am I supposed to be in Dragon's Breath range all the way back there?
Well that's different.
DB or Nova are ok, but then - plz go away. :)
AE is Ok if you are spec'd for reduced threat though... I didn't mention that. However no one really does that very often.
DB or Nova are ok, but then - plz go away. :)
AE is Ok if you are spec'd for reduced threat though... I didn't mention that. However no one really does that very often.
46 posts
wow great info. i have a group i play with that are a few levels lower than i am and i end up pulling aggro easily. i will try invisibility this week. heck i didnt even think of that. thanks guys for all the great suggestions on this thread.
Scholar
38 posts
Trilliandent wrote:
So, I know ice block and mirror images and invis. They help me. However, there are some groups where none of that helps. Do I just scorch the whole time? Seriously, I love it when I can go all out (hello pally tank), and not have to worry about it..
1. Ok, let's get back to basics. Threat is inevitably linked to damage done, though tanks have talents and skills to increase threat while other classes should have the opposite. Your threat management should start from dishing out damage at the right time, not rely panic buttons like invisibility or ice block.
2. LET THE TANK GET AGGRO first. If you cannot see the sunder armour, lacerate, consecrete etc, give the tank a few seconds before casting. Don't be too happy blasting off right from the start.
3. DON'T JUST LOOK AT THE DAMAGE METER ! The game is not about damage alone. Look at other things: If there is another mage around who sheep at every pull, counter 5 spells off the mobs and remove 10 curses from the team members but is lower than you who has nothing but dps score, you better learn from him.
4. Look at the healing meter and see how much you are healed. If you are the second highest person on the healing list, you are giving the tank and healer a hard time instead of helpping them with dps. If any off-healer is pumping out 50% heals or if the tank is getting only 60% of the total heals, be assured people will put you on ignore list, even if the second highest damage is only 1% of what you deal.
5. Finally, look at the gameplay in general. Is there a trigger-happy dps who always walk in front pulling mobs even though he is not the designated puller and the tank has to intercept to save his ***? Is there someone who rush off while healer is drinking or before the team leader explain the strategy? Are the mobs running towards the healer the very moment he heals the tank on first cast of every pull? These are factors that meters will never reveal, but they will determine whether you get added to friend's list or ignore list, and whether people ask you along for another run.
Edited, Jan 27th 2009 2:53pm by whitegreen
I keep seeing people talk about CC ?
there is absolutely no reason to CC anything in Wotlk. If you need to CC targets that is because either the tank is bad or the healer is bad.
fortunately I don't pug groups or run with scrubs so I do not have threat problems. I max dps rotation on trash in 5 mans by doing
LB(skull)> FSr9 >FSr6 > Blizzard till dead
and still never pull agro.
Boss fights are the only time I do MI right away and invis 27 seconds in. Same as before I never pull threat.
1750 sp power, 34% crit
Edited, Jan 27th 2009 3:42pm by lysrgk
there is absolutely no reason to CC anything in Wotlk. If you need to CC targets that is because either the tank is bad or the healer is bad.
fortunately I don't pug groups or run with scrubs so I do not have threat problems. I max dps rotation on trash in 5 mans by doing
LB(skull)> FSr9 >FSr6 > Blizzard till dead
and still never pull agro.
Boss fights are the only time I do MI right away and invis 27 seconds in. Same as before I never pull threat.
1750 sp power, 34% crit
Edited, Jan 27th 2009 3:42pm by lysrgk
Recent Visitors: 223
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (223)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Pulling aggro (Threat management)
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC