Okay so before I asked Haste vs Crit and was overwhelmed in-game and given advice here that Crit > Haste.
I just dinged 70 and have been bombarded with new gear, all offering me either Strength or Crit, with Stamina bonuses flying here and there.
There have been a few times I've lived with 10hp or less, so I value Stamina a bit, but I prefer to focus on my most important stats.
For example, right now I am caught in numerous items that offer massively higher crit than I am wearing, but at the cost of a TON of Strength. These items also offer a hell of a lot of Stamina at time.
Namely...
Shoulders:
Chilled Shoulderpads 946 Armor (16Str 58Stamina, 21 Crit)
vs
Mightstone Pauldrons 946 Armor (16str, 32Stamina, 39 Crit)
vs (currently wearing)
Chilled Pauldrons 946 Armor (39str, 16crit, 21 Armor penetration rating)
With these I gain 23str over either of them, but lose between 32-58Stamina, 5-23 Crit.
Wrists:
Landlocked Wristguards 552 Armor (16str, 45Stamina, 12 Crit)
vs (currently wearing)
Adamantite Plate Bracers 458 Armor (22str, 24Stamina, +7Str socketed gem)
With these I gain 13Str, but lose out on 21 Stamina 12 Crit.
Legs: (one of the hardest choices.. massive crit vs massive Stamina)
Mightstone Legplates 1104 Armor (24str, 36Stamina, 55 Crit)
vs (currently wearing)
Amberplate Legguards 1104 Armor (30str, 80Stamina, 21 Crit)
Basically I gain 6str and 44Stamina, but lose 34 Crit... Huge loss either way.
Belt:
Amberplate Waistguard 710 Armor (58Stamina, 16 Expertise rating, 21 Crit)
vs (currently wearing)
Reaver Girdle of Strength 531 Armor (35Str)
So I either lose 58Stamina, 16 Expertise, 21 Crit and 179 Armor, or I lose 35Str...
In the gear I have listed above(and the rest of my stuff) I have +449 Str, +30Agi, +288 Sta, and +35 Int with 7030 Armor.
I have a Crit% (listed in box, not counting Vengeance/Judgment additions) of 26.02% melee with 5 Expertise, 13 Hit Rating, and 2.41% Haste.
For spells, 414 Bonus Spell Damage/Healing, 13 Hit Rating, 23.42% Crit, and 38 Haste.
I'd very much love some advice, from which I will attempt to keep my stupid questions answered with :p
Thank you.
Edited, Jan 7th 2009 2:41pm by Tsuvati
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- Retadin: Strength vs Crit Rating
Retadin: Strength vs Crit RatingFollow
Quote:
Shoulders:
Chilled Shoulderpads 946 Armor (16Str 58Stamina, 21 Crit)
vs
Mightstone Pauldrons 946 Armor (16str, 32Stamina, 39 Crit)
vs (currently wearing)
Chilled Pauldrons 946 Armor (39str, 16crit, 21 Armor penetration rating)
Armor: All are the same.
Str: 16 vs 16 vs 39
Stam: 58 vs 32 vs 0
Crit: 21 vs 39 vs 0
Go with #2. The reason I say that, is because it has the best mid-line. Armor Penetration is useless for PvE grinding, that Crit Rating will help you more in solo PvE.
Quote:
Wrists:
Landlocked Wristguards 552 Armor (16str, 45Stamina, 12 Crit)
vs (currently wearing)
Adamantite Plate Bracers 458 Armor (22str, 24Stamina, +7Str socketed gem)
Landlocked Wristguards 552 Armor (16str, 45Stamina, 12 Crit)
vs (currently wearing)
Adamantite Plate Bracers 458 Armor (22str, 24Stamina, +7Str socketed gem)
A bit of a difficult choice, you gain 100 armor, but lose 13 STR, 24 Stamina and gain 12 Crit Rating.
Since you are most likely doing solo PvE, I tended to favor Crit. I'd go with the new one to be honest.
Quote:
Legs: (one of the hardest choices.. massive crit vs massive Stamina)
Mightstone Legplates 1104 Armor (24str, 36Stamina, 55 Crit)
vs (currently wearing)
Amberplate Legguards 1104 Armor (30str, 80Stamina, 21 Crit)
Mightstone Legplates 1104 Armor (24str, 36Stamina, 55 Crit)
vs (currently wearing)
Amberplate Legguards 1104 Armor (30str, 80Stamina, 21 Crit)
#1. Stamina won't do that much for you in solo PvE questing. You are not Lv80 yet, so the only thing that matters to you is getting Lv80. Stamina doesn't help you kill mobs faster, and your HP isn't so low that you cannot reliably kill monsters. Piece #2 has 6 strength, but a heck of a lot less crit. Use the Mightstone Legplates.
Quote:
Belt:
Amberplate Waistguard 710 Armor (58Stamina, 16 Expertise rating, 21 Crit)
vs (currently wearing)
Reaver Girdle of Strength 531 Armor (35Str)
Amberplate Waistguard 710 Armor (58Stamina, 16 Expertise rating, 21 Crit)
vs (currently wearing)
Reaver Girdle of Strength 531 Armor (35Str)
I'd personally go with #1 to be honest. This one is a close call, 35 strength isn't small. But Expertise + Critical I would think wins the day. 180 armor doesn't hurt anything either.
A few things to remember while leveling as a Retadin:
#1: Your job is to kill crap as fast as possible. You do this by stacking on mostly Strength and Crit. Stamina is nice, but don't sacrifice Strength and Crit for it.
#2: Armor Penetration is nothing more than "sell to vendor" (or DE) unless you are using some old dusty Outlands gear that is easily bested by even an Armor Pen gear. Sadly, Blizzard decided to include craptons of Armor Penetration gear in Quest Rewards. I got so sick of seeing ArP plate while questing in Borean, Fjord and Zul'drak.
#3: Stamina is nice, but as I said above, it won't help you kill mobs faster. I'd keep a decent amount of it, but don't stack it. Leave it for the tanks. Once you get Lv78+ and start looking into getting a dungeon set, and doing dungeons and raids (or PvP), you might want to take another look at Stamina, but to be honest, your first and foremost priority is getting to Lv80 first.
#4: Once you get Lv80, there's equipment guides around. Blacksmiths can make many pieces of gear you will love, anything from Saronite to Titansteel, there's lots of Retadin gear to be found in the Blacksmith's shop. These will get you a good start on getting gear good enough to do Lv80 dungeons and easier heroics, so many of these quest rewards won't matter in the end run, the only thing you need is gear to get you to Lv80 first.
Edited, Jan 7th 2009 3:36pm by Zariamnk
Thank you very much for the reply. Just seems such a blow to lose all that Str(-77Str, but +106 Crit and I gain 67 Stamina due to the belt lol)
I'll have to hope this works out well! With my new Libram of Furious Blows, I've been critting almost nonstop(basically -every- judgement is a crit now) but with this, hopefully my FoL's crit more for more regen!
*update*
Okay to compare:
Old Gear vs New Gear with no buffs~
Hit Points: 7567 - 8237
Melee Crit: 26.02% - 30.10%
Spell Crit: 23.42% - 27.5%
Melee Damage: 733-908 - 684-858
Bonus Damage/Healing: 414/414- 361/361
Hit Rating: 13 - 13
Expertise: 5 - 9
SoC Damage: 330-409 - 308-386
Seal: 500-542 - 447-489
So far looks quite worth it. Pretty big drop in straight damage, but a 4% increase to crit is pretty huge. I'm looking forward to AoE grinding some NR with this.
Edited, Jan 7th 2009 4:59pm by Tsuvati
I'll have to hope this works out well! With my new Libram of Furious Blows, I've been critting almost nonstop(basically -every- judgement is a crit now) but with this, hopefully my FoL's crit more for more regen!
*update*
Okay to compare:
Old Gear vs New Gear with no buffs~
Hit Points: 7567 - 8237
Melee Crit: 26.02% - 30.10%
Spell Crit: 23.42% - 27.5%
Melee Damage: 733-908 - 684-858
Bonus Damage/Healing: 414/414- 361/361
Hit Rating: 13 - 13
Expertise: 5 - 9
SoC Damage: 330-409 - 308-386
Seal: 500-542 - 447-489
So far looks quite worth it. Pretty big drop in straight damage, but a 4% increase to crit is pretty huge. I'm looking forward to AoE grinding some NR with this.
Edited, Jan 7th 2009 4:59pm by Tsuvati
A couple other thoughts:
Think about prioritizing quest lines in zones/hubs which give faction rep. Argent Crusade, Wyrmrest Accord, and even Tuskarr have equipment starting at 78 that's as good as anything around at the time.
Don't worry overmuch about necklace and belt. When you start on heroics, your first 65 badges will get you within a stone's throw of the best available outside of 25-man raids. Note that this is true for Holy and I believe Prot as well...
Think about prioritizing quest lines in zones/hubs which give faction rep. Argent Crusade, Wyrmrest Accord, and even Tuskarr have equipment starting at 78 that's as good as anything around at the time.
Don't worry overmuch about necklace and belt. When you start on heroics, your first 65 badges will get you within a stone's throw of the best available outside of 25-man raids. Note that this is true for Holy and I believe Prot as well...
As a levelling Ret you want around 25% crit. It will help you keep Vengeance up which adds a chunk to your dps (I believe they will be buffing it to 5 stacks with the next patch too). Keep this in mind when deciding on gear but generally speaking for a Ret Pally Str > Crit.
Don't worry about ArP or Haste. While levelling, they are stats designed moreso for Warriors and Deathknights.
Check out ToolofJesus' Ret guide for more info. Its designed for level 70 but should still show you how your stats should be balanced out.
Don't worry about ArP or Haste. While levelling, they are stats designed moreso for Warriors and Deathknights.
Check out ToolofJesus' Ret guide for more info. Its designed for level 70 but should still show you how your stats should be balanced out.
i dont mean to be a prick, but read the Ret Sticky on the main page and stop posting your item upgrades.
while leveling only three things to consider:
1. gear with buttloads of Str and Stam.
2. keep your Crit between 22% and 25%.
3. do some instances once in a while with a group, or else you run the risk of becoming a lvl 80 Retnoob. Ret still has a stigma with uninformed players. if you suck at lvl 80, you will find it increasingly difficult to find a group.
while leveling only three things to consider:
1. gear with buttloads of Str and Stam.
2. keep your Crit between 22% and 25%.
3. do some instances once in a while with a group, or else you run the risk of becoming a lvl 80 Retnoob. Ret still has a stigma with uninformed players. if you suck at lvl 80, you will find it increasingly difficult to find a group.
tommyguns wrote:
i dont mean to be a prick, but read the Ret Sticky on the main page and stop posting your item upgrades.
while leveling only three things to consider:
1. gear with buttloads of Str and Stam.
2. keep your Crit between 22% and 25%.
3. do some instances once in a while with a group, or else you run the risk of becoming a lvl 80 Retnoob. Ret still has a stigma with uninformed players. if you suck at lvl 80, you will find it increasingly difficult to find a group.
while leveling only three things to consider:
1. gear with buttloads of Str and Stam.
2. keep your Crit between 22% and 25%.
3. do some instances once in a while with a group, or else you run the risk of becoming a lvl 80 Retnoob. Ret still has a stigma with uninformed players. if you suck at lvl 80, you will find it increasingly difficult to find a group.
The Ret guide is outdated and terrible. I've looked it over and saw how worthless it was. Thanks for the advice though, and grouping is cake. I did this kind of thing before and I'm pretty efficient at healing and DPSing(in small groups, such as 5man'ing Elites with over 100k and immune to stun). I healed for thousands of hours in FFXI, this is no different lol. I'm confident in the ability to group, right now I just care about solo play though. Maybe in a few months I'll look at endgame :)
If you have dinged 70, i'm assuming you have 5/5 Divine Strength in the prot tree. The last patch upped this from +10% str to +15% making strength even more powerful for ret paladins. 1 point of strength = 2.3 attack power.
You always prioritize strength over any equal value of another stat like haste, crit or whatever because you will hit harder normally and your crits hit harder.
Not to mention the fact that more attack power from strength means you get more spellpower from the Sheath of Light talent. This directly adds to the damage of seals, judgements, exorcism and holy wrath and so on, (in an expansion full of undead mobs) and your heals are more effective. You always prioritise increasing your strength stat, it's that simple.
Edited, Jan 7th 2009 8:59pm by ArtemisEnteri
You always prioritize strength over any equal value of another stat like haste, crit or whatever because you will hit harder normally and your crits hit harder.
Not to mention the fact that more attack power from strength means you get more spellpower from the Sheath of Light talent. This directly adds to the damage of seals, judgements, exorcism and holy wrath and so on, (in an expansion full of undead mobs) and your heals are more effective. You always prioritise increasing your strength stat, it's that simple.
Edited, Jan 7th 2009 8:59pm by ArtemisEnteri
Quote:
Not to mention the fact that more attack power from strength means you get more spellpower from the Sheath of Light talent. This directly adds to the damage of seals, judgements, exorcism and holy wrath and so on, (in an expansion full of undead mobs) and your heals are more effective. You always prioritise increasing your strength stat, it's that simple.
Just to emphasize the above post with a couple numbers: every 6 str(raid buffed - aprox 1str = 2.5ap, 15% increase from talents, 10% from Kings) = 5 spell power. Almost every ability scales with both sp+ap, so when in doubt choose str, as it is by far better than any other stat.
Quote:
The Ret guide is outdated and terrible. I've looked it over and saw how worthless it was.
lol really?
Quote:
As you level your Ret, you'll notice that in addition to the 5 base stats (Strength, Agility, Stamina, Intellect, and Spirit) there are many other stats that are available on our gear. Some of these, like Attack Power (AP), Strength (str), Agility (agi), Hit Rating, Crit Rating, Expertise (exp) and Haste all have definite usefulness for Ret Pallies. Some, like Spellpower (SP), Mana per 5 seconds (mp5), Intellect (int), Stamina (sta), and Armor Penetration (ArP) all have some use for Ret Pallies, but are less important to directly gear for. Some, like Spirit, should never be taken if possible.
As you look at your abilities and how all these stats affect them, you'll see that str/AP, crit, SP, agi, and Hit all directly affect nearly all of our abilities. Haste and ArP only affect a few abilities, but depending on the situation they might be fairly useful still. With Sheath of Light giving SP from AP there is no need to try to stack SP directly on your gear since SP will do more than SP in general and still give you some SP for those abilities that scale only on SP. For those interested I'll have the math for how each affects your damage at the end. Also I'll add the spell coefficients for the other spells you may use depending on the situation.
As Ret you will find that you need some Hit to ensure your other stats will be worth maximum value. After you reach Hit cap, str and crit and for most Ret Pallies Haste will give you the biggest increases to your DPS. Also you should be taking whatever sta you can get on your gear, but don't be overly worried about it. Agi and pure AP are both very useful also, but of secondary value to str and crit, which both add more to your dps than agi and AP per item budge value.
As you look at your abilities and how all these stats affect them, you'll see that str/AP, crit, SP, agi, and Hit all directly affect nearly all of our abilities. Haste and ArP only affect a few abilities, but depending on the situation they might be fairly useful still. With Sheath of Light giving SP from AP there is no need to try to stack SP directly on your gear since SP will do more than SP in general and still give you some SP for those abilities that scale only on SP. For those interested I'll have the math for how each affects your damage at the end. Also I'll add the spell coefficients for the other spells you may use depending on the situation.
As Ret you will find that you need some Hit to ensure your other stats will be worth maximum value. After you reach Hit cap, str and crit and for most Ret Pallies Haste will give you the biggest increases to your DPS. Also you should be taking whatever sta you can get on your gear, but don't be overly worried about it. Agi and pure AP are both very useful also, but of secondary value to str and crit, which both add more to your dps than agi and AP per item budge value.
snipped from Ret guide.
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