Greetings all, I was wondering if any of you have any insight in what I am finding using the Hunter DPS spreadsheet. Now this is in the current patch and not the 3.08 on the PTR. I am only level 76 so this may have something to do with it as well. In short, I am seeing a significant DPS increase by going either MM or SV compared to BM.
Here is my armory with my current gear and spec and I have the steady shot glyph and hunter's mark glyph. Also, all calculations in the spreadsheet are done on a WotLK Boss (level 83)
Current Armory
With this gear and spec (51/16/0) I am showing a total DPS of 813 (604 from me and 209 from cat) completely unbuffed, just little old me with dragonhawk on. My shot rotation in the spreadsheet is Serpent Sting, BW, SS, KS
Now if I change to an MM spec (7/53/7) with a rotation of serpent sting, Chimera Shot, SS, KS I get a total DPS of 1023 (911 from me and 112 from cat)
Also, if I go to this SV spec (7/8/52) with a rotation of serpent sting, explosive shot, SS, KS I get a total DPS of 1180 (1115 from me and 65 from my cat)
I just didn't expect to see as large of an increase (or any increase at all for that matter) simply by changing specs/shot rotation in the spreadsheet. I've been BM since level 15ish and never looked back as BM was THE PvE spec.
I haven't tested the MM or SV build yet in real life, but my current BM DPS does match pretty well with the spreadsheet. My assumption going into this was that BM would be a little better. Was my assumption just wrong or do you think I'm missing something. Any thoughts or insight will be very much appreciated.
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DPS between BM/MM/SV using the SpreadsheetFollow
I'm not good with numbers, but you seem to be seeing really, really low DPS from your cat--what level is she? Is she talented for tanking, general purpose, or squishy DPS?
Your spec is a little off from what I personally would use--I can see how Spirit Bond might seem useful since your pet isn't Tenacity, but my wolf and I did just fine without it, so you should be okay too. Also, Focused Aim is not good for BM hunters, as the hit does not transfer to the pet. Just off the top of my head, this should give you slightly better DPS at your level, and the extra expertise should help your pet a bit. Still, if you are testing against level 83 bosses and aren't level 80 yourself, things are going to be a little weird for you because of the level difference. Melee has a much higher hit cap-- maybe that means that even if you aren't missing too much against something that level, your pet will miss a fair bit more (actually, I'm not sure how exactly pets do inherit Hunter hit, whether it's percentage or rating, so feel free to ignore this, it's just me trying to make sense of things)--anyway, I'm guessing that's why decreasing the percentage of damage that was reliant on your pet worked to increase your total DPS.
Also, if you have the Steady glyph and plan to use Serpent Sting as part of your rotation, might want to pick up the glyph for that. It's a low-level one so it should only be a few silver. :)
Your spec is a little off from what I personally would use--I can see how Spirit Bond might seem useful since your pet isn't Tenacity, but my wolf and I did just fine without it, so you should be okay too. Also, Focused Aim is not good for BM hunters, as the hit does not transfer to the pet. Just off the top of my head, this should give you slightly better DPS at your level, and the extra expertise should help your pet a bit. Still, if you are testing against level 83 bosses and aren't level 80 yourself, things are going to be a little weird for you because of the level difference. Melee has a much higher hit cap-- maybe that means that even if you aren't missing too much against something that level, your pet will miss a fair bit more (actually, I'm not sure how exactly pets do inherit Hunter hit, whether it's percentage or rating, so feel free to ignore this, it's just me trying to make sense of things)--anyway, I'm guessing that's why decreasing the percentage of damage that was reliant on your pet worked to increase your total DPS.
Also, if you have the Steady glyph and plan to use Serpent Sting as part of your rotation, might want to pick up the glyph for that. It's a low-level one so it should only be a few silver. :)
thanks for the advice, if I swith out spirit bond for animal handler my BM hunter does 815 DPS (604 me and 211 from my cat) and increase of ~2 DPS so that isn't explaining the giant step change in total DPS from BM to MM or SV.
Though you might be right in that the level difference if making a huge impact, especially given my low hit. My cat is level 75 right now and spec'd for DPS. I think I will try a custom target at my level and see how that goes.
To the bat cave....errr Hunter DPS spreadsheet that is.
ok, using a custom target at level 76 and I just threw on 7000 armor as I have zero idea about that stuff the following numbers were generated:
BM: 1284 DPS (855 from me, 428 from my cat); AP=2351; Crit=21.27%; Hit=100%
MM: 1436 DPS (1197 from me, 238 from my cat); AP=2550; Crit=26.52%; Hit=100%
SV: 1563 DPS (1422 from me, 141 from my cat); AP=2638; Crit=31.1; Hit=99.25%
So again, the numbers are much higher for MM and SV for my gear and the reason lies appears to be in the talents. I just get a massive boost in AP and crit from the other trees and that boost is a larger jump up then what BM gives my cat.
***EDIT***
ok, I'm pretty sure that I am stupid, just got to check one more thing....yep, I'm stupid. I was using the spreadsheet that deals with what is on the PTR, 3.08. Forget everything I was talking about, never listen to another word I say. I will now bend over and prepare for my beating, "Thank you sir may I have another"
So basically I just confirmed what everyone already knew, the current 3.08 nerfs BM and buffs MM/SV to a large degree. So new question, assuming they leave things as is and I respec for SV with me pumping out 1400+ DPS to my cats 140 DPS, is he going to be able to hold any sort of threat whatsoever?
Edited, Jan 7th 2009 4:04pm by zebug
Though you might be right in that the level difference if making a huge impact, especially given my low hit. My cat is level 75 right now and spec'd for DPS. I think I will try a custom target at my level and see how that goes.
To the bat cave....errr Hunter DPS spreadsheet that is.
ok, using a custom target at level 76 and I just threw on 7000 armor as I have zero idea about that stuff the following numbers were generated:
BM: 1284 DPS (855 from me, 428 from my cat); AP=2351; Crit=21.27%; Hit=100%
MM: 1436 DPS (1197 from me, 238 from my cat); AP=2550; Crit=26.52%; Hit=100%
SV: 1563 DPS (1422 from me, 141 from my cat); AP=2638; Crit=31.1; Hit=99.25%
So again, the numbers are much higher for MM and SV for my gear and the reason lies appears to be in the talents. I just get a massive boost in AP and crit from the other trees and that boost is a larger jump up then what BM gives my cat.
***EDIT***
ok, I'm pretty sure that I am stupid, just got to check one more thing....yep, I'm stupid. I was using the spreadsheet that deals with what is on the PTR, 3.08. Forget everything I was talking about, never listen to another word I say. I will now bend over and prepare for my beating, "Thank you sir may I have another"
So basically I just confirmed what everyone already knew, the current 3.08 nerfs BM and buffs MM/SV to a large degree. So new question, assuming they leave things as is and I respec for SV with me pumping out 1400+ DPS to my cats 140 DPS, is he going to be able to hold any sort of threat whatsoever?
Edited, Jan 7th 2009 4:04pm by zebug
zebug wrote:
***EDIT***
ok, I'm pretty sure that I am stupid, just got to check one more thing....yep, I'm stupid. I was using the spreadsheet that deals with what is on the PTR, 3.08. Forget everything I was talking about, never listen to another word I say. I will now bend over and prepare for my beating, "Thank you sir may I have another"
So basically I just confirmed what everyone already knew, the current 3.08 nerfs BM and buffs MM/SV to a large degree. So new question, assuming they leave things as is and I respec for SV with me pumping out 1400+ DPS to my cats 140 DPS, is he going to be able to hold any sort of threat whatsoever?
ok, I'm pretty sure that I am stupid, just got to check one more thing....yep, I'm stupid. I was using the spreadsheet that deals with what is on the PTR, 3.08. Forget everything I was talking about, never listen to another word I say. I will now bend over and prepare for my beating, "Thank you sir may I have another"
So basically I just confirmed what everyone already knew, the current 3.08 nerfs BM and buffs MM/SV to a large degree. So new question, assuming they leave things as is and I respec for SV with me pumping out 1400+ DPS to my cats 140 DPS, is he going to be able to hold any sort of threat whatsoever?
I thought that might be the problem, but I wasn't going to mention it...glad you figured it out, though.
Were you testing with raid buffs? Remember that you won't be fully buffed while soloing, so that will help your pet out a little. Also, you probably won't be using the best ammo possible when you're grinding out dailies, or popping your trinkets and cooldowns so often. If you leave Growl on autocast, use Aspect of the Beast, and MD and FD every time you can, you should be okay. If you know how to kite (any non-BM hunter has no excuse not to, and even BM should have some practice), you should be just fine even if your pet can't hold aggro. Remember, even with the BM nerfs, all hunter pets have been significantly buffed--and if you need to, you can pick up a Tenacity pet for dailies and farming.
Edited, Jan 7th 2009 2:42pm by isyris
no buffs at all (except dragonhawk) and I only use vendor bought ammo for the spreadsheet. Eventhough I've been BM forever, I am looking forward to a respec to try a new talen tree....and of course I know how to kite, I've been coming to this forum since I started my little huntard. Everytime I leave an instance I forget that I turned growl off of autocast so I end up kiting the first 3-4 mobs I face as I'm yelling at Spot to get threat back.
Hee hee, I do that too. 
Of course, I'm leveling my dwarf as MM, so I'm getting plenty of practice. (Call me crazy, but kiting around level 26 mobs for a red quest when you're only level 20 is FUN.)
Another thing to keep in mind with the Survival build is that (I think) the spreadsheet doesn't take trap dancing for Lock and Load procs into effect, and so you could potentially get even higher DPS--Explosive Shot is probably going to get toned down at least a little bit before the patch hits.
Of course, I'm leveling my dwarf as MM, so I'm getting plenty of practice. (Call me crazy, but kiting around level 26 mobs for a red quest when you're only level 20 is FUN.)
Another thing to keep in mind with the Survival build is that (I think) the spreadsheet doesn't take trap dancing for Lock and Load procs into effect, and so you could potentially get even higher DPS--Explosive Shot is probably going to get toned down at least a little bit before the patch hits.
isyris wrote:
Also, you probably won't be using the best ammo possible when you're grinding out dailies, or popping your trinkets and cooldowns so often.
I use cooldowns a lot when grinding on just about any class, stuff dies faster = quests done faster >.>;
Edited, Jan 9th 2009 10:07am by Norellicus
1 post
Hmm strange, I'm a BM hunter and the burst fire damage my pet done when everything stack up with Beastial Wrath is higher than the dps myself. LvL 69.
One advantage of hunters above other classes is they have buffs x2. I was amazed when Blessing of might + Mark of wild on my pet and myself gives it 300dps without BW and ferocious inspiration and devilsaur tooth. Crits is another major factor for pet, as there's skills in BM tree that boosts pet's crit and its aspd is like much more faster than the hunter itself.
When u see 1k crits jumping out from from the 3 sec intimidation of the pet, u pretty much will say bye bye to your target, as you will be shooting with a bit less dmg too.
I filled in more of the latter BM talents rather than switching to early MM or survival talents, and find myself on top of the dps list in almost every party, and thx to the big bad devilsaur ^^
Edited, Jan 9th 2009 3:53pm by lkianw
Edited, Jan 9th 2009 5:10pm by lkianw
One advantage of hunters above other classes is they have buffs x2. I was amazed when Blessing of might + Mark of wild on my pet and myself gives it 300dps without BW and ferocious inspiration and devilsaur tooth. Crits is another major factor for pet, as there's skills in BM tree that boosts pet's crit and its aspd is like much more faster than the hunter itself.
When u see 1k crits jumping out from from the 3 sec intimidation of the pet, u pretty much will say bye bye to your target, as you will be shooting with a bit less dmg too.
I filled in more of the latter BM talents rather than switching to early MM or survival talents, and find myself on top of the dps list in almost every party, and thx to the big bad devilsaur ^^
Edited, Jan 9th 2009 3:53pm by lkianw
Edited, Jan 9th 2009 5:10pm by lkianw
Norellicus wrote:
isyris wrote:
Also, you probably won't be using the best ammo possible when you're grinding out dailies, or popping your trinkets and cooldowns so often.
I use cooldowns a lot when grinding on just about any class, stuff dies faster = quests done faster >.>;
Edited, Jan 9th 2009 10:07am by Norellicus
True, so do I, but it's nowhere near as vital as in a raid, and for myself I find that I use them only about half as much since I am not so focused on what I am doing and watching the timers. Since mobs die so quickly, it never really seems worth it.
One thing to note is that testing BM vs MM/SV without buffs is pointless, as BM gets much more out of buffs to the pet than MM or SV do.
Thus, the difference swings towards BM quite fast once you start to get some buffs on you.
Thus, the difference swings towards BM quite fast once you start to get some buffs on you.
Quote:
So basically I just confirmed what everyone already knew, the current 3.08 nerfs BM and buffs MM/SV to a large degree. So new question, assuming they leave things as is and I respec for SV with me pumping out 1400+ DPS to my cats 140 DPS, is he going to be able to hold any sort of threat whatsoever?
From the patch notes I've read, Growl is going to be improved on pets, so hopefully holding agro on mobs won't be too much of an issue.
I didn't realize that Aethien, good to know.
Edited, Jan 10th 2009 11:07am by zebug
Edited, Jan 10th 2009 11:07am by zebug
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