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Tanking as a Blood Spec.Follow

#1 Jan 07 2009 at 1:15 AM Rating: Decent
I've been tanking throughout most of my career as a Death Knight as a blood spec. I haven't had any problems up until now, but I just recently hit 80 and was wondering if anyone could make any comments or recommendations regarding my current build.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jcEzoI0IofMtzAo0xZcxM0x

I really want to stay blood, but I'm willing to mess around with some of the points and put them elsewhere. Any advice is always appreciated.

Edited, Jan 7th 2009 3:17am by Miekyle
#2 Jan 07 2009 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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1,039 posts
Blood is the weakest spec for tanking, especially multi-target tanking. It's getting a decent buff when the patch comes out, but seriously you should reconsider.

A lot of stuff will be changing when the patch is out, which the way blizz goes that might be 2 weeks.
At the very least, you probably should drop most of those points in unholy (keep anticipation). I'm not sure if its worth it to go that deep into blood as blood tank simply because blood gorged has very little benefit (yea i know its 5 expertise but still, you lose the majority of the effect), DRW also does nothing for your threat.
Maybe pick up more points in frost to get anticipate and lichborne. you wont have epidemic which kinda sucks.

You won't be a raid tank w/that spec. It's not you, its blood's fault.
#3 Jan 10 2009 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
As Enthalpy said, blood even after the patch is the weakest tank spec. Frost is a good single target tank, while unholy is good for spell-damage tanking and AoE tanking. .I am personally a fan of frost for it has a few more survival talents.If you do decide to go into frost, take a look at your raid. Certain points have to be added/ removed depending on how the other DKs are specced. If one DK has Icy Talons and or Frost Aura and is a constant raider, it is not advised to put points in these as they do not stack. To get to later tiered abilities such as Tundra Stalker. These are essential as they are semi-tank worthy, making them great point dumps IF no one else has them. If a core raider has both, you can use this build(http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jcEZGxxzhed0hRVosx0g), which gives enough points use later abilitys, without wasting points.

EDIT: on a side note, most tanks to tend to do a 5/5/5 build(Blade Barrier, Anticipation, Toughness) then optionaly Bladed Armor and Epidemic in my case.

Edited, Jan 10th 2009 3:55pm by Lichbourne
#4 Jan 10 2009 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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3,272 posts
Personally I would move those 5 points from necrosis over to epidemic and ravenous dead, but that's just my opinion. An increase in your overall strength, which is more damage to almost all spells and abilities, and an increase of time on your diseases, which in theory would mean less time refreshing diseases and more time spending those runes on Oblit, or using your death runes for Heart Strikes.
#5 Jan 13 2009 at 9:41 AM Rating: Decent
Alright. Thank you all for the responses. I'm gonna consider them, but after trying out frost and unholy, I've got to say that they just aren't as much fun for me as blood. I also know that I'll never be able to tank a raid or some of the harder heroics, but I'm okay with that. My guild is more casual than anything else, and if we ever do a raid, I tend to be an OT, which is where I'm more comfortable anyways.

I'll probably end up tweaking my talents a bit here and there with the bits of advice that you guys gave me. Thanks again!
#6 Mar 04 2009 at 12:13 AM Rating: Decent
Alright, I tweaked my spec a bit, and this is what I came up with. What do you think? I've tanked a few heroics with this new spec, and I've found it to be much easier to handle now that I put some more points into frost. Oh yeah, and this is my armory.

Edited, Mar 4th 2009 2:34am by Miekyle
#7 Mar 04 2009 at 6:16 AM Rating: Decent
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659 posts
Blood is a viable tanking spec. It's considered the best for tanking 3D Sarth actually. The spec you listed looks ok except you need to get 3/3 Will of the Necropolis. Take points out of Blood Aura and Unholy Command to get the points needed.
#8 Mar 04 2009 at 8:07 AM Rating: Decent
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202 posts
The only thing that screams 'change' in your build is the 1 point in Unholy Command should go and be put to max 2H Spec.
#9 Mar 04 2009 at 8:36 AM Rating: Good
There is a glyph that makes Unholy Command pretty useless.

Here's what I've been using to great success for Blood Tanking, it's also remarkably viable for DPS and soloing;

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jcEMqI0Icb0tzhZhg00hZcg

Standard Boss Rotation:

IT PS HS HS OB (DC).

Rinse, Repeat, throw in Rune Strikes as needed.

Against your average pack of mobs...

DnD, IT, PS, PEST, BLOOD TAP, HS, HS, OB, (DC)

Repeat except without DnD. Anybody pulls aggro off that, make best friends with them.

Poor Blood, I wub it so much....
____________________________
"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent. Personified in this case by an 'orrible c*** : me."
#10 Mar 04 2009 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
This is the build I use.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jcEMqI0IsbMzuAo0xZcxh

I have Glyphs of IBF, Vampiric Blood, and Rune Tap. Minors are raise dead, pest, and horn of winter.

With all due respect to everyone's opinion, Blood is not inferior at all. Not even a tiny tiny bit. I leveled 70-80 as frost. I have tanked all Heroics, 10/25 OS, 10/25 Vaults, 10/25 Naxx as BOTH frost and blood. I switch back and forth all the time. I prefer blood 10000000%. It is a completely different style of play. I focus on using my healing abilities. People very often underrate the healing abilities. Deathstrike and Mark of Blood are tied #1 on the underrated list.

My PUG healers have been getting bored with me. My standard guild healer is a druid who just drops HoTs on me and stops paying attention. I've gotten many many comments from healers saying "You don't even need a healer" when 10minutes before they would whisper me "I thought blood was no good" I flat out impressed a healadin in full T7.5 who immediately wanted me in his guild. I received the 2minute Loken kill achievement after my 2 rogues and fury warrior were dropped on 1st AoE, the pally (the previously mentioned one) that was the healer could DPS b/c he didn't have to worry about me. I do Patch 10/25 as Frost and as Blood, all my healers say they love the blood spec over my old frost spec. They d0dn't run out of mana or feel pressured as much. At this point we pretty much just use 2 tanks for Naxx 25 now (can't really do Patch that way though).

I have 0 hate issues (admittedly that might change w/pest damage being removed, but we'll see how BB holds up). I don't use obliterate ever. I tank multiple targets very often and lose very few against strong DPS (even careless ones at times). I never lose a boss. I have more HP from VoTW than in frost. From what I see, they nerfed Frost tree by improving frost pressence. Frost tree was about mitigation, but when they bumped up the armor gain in FP, they made blood that much stronger because the mitigation of the frost tree was not as necessary. So might as well heal yourself.

I know the responses already. "DS doesn't heal you that much, blood aura isn't that much, etc." But it all adds up. It is a situation that is hard to give concrete evidence.

Frost is cool, if you like it, use it. Honestly, I have yet to see a mildly competent unholy tank (that could be the players though, I've never tanked unholy), I don't even really see how the Unholy tree is a tanking tree outside of Bone Shield, but since people say that blood is weak and I'm great with it, I can see the reverse situation and bet Unholy is fine. Do not get discouraged by people saying blood is weak. It is not. And when it is learned to play properly, IMO, it is the best tanking spec for me.

I apologize how convaluted this has gotten. My stream of conciousness definitely went off tangent. I just want to demonstrate that blood is in no way weaker to frost. You just have to play it differently. It takes getting used to. It takes an appreciation for support skills, not just the stat sheets. I thought of ways on how to use it, and it's different, and I love it. If you want to tank as blood, you can do it.
#11 Mar 04 2009 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
Now that I am done defending blood, I can try to help you. (=

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jcEMqI0IsbMzuAo0xZcxh

You can move around some things if you like, but I have paid to swap back and forth for tweakings, and I love this current build and would not move a single point. My current build I put up 250ish HPS (yeah, that's right, I'm a DK who measures that), which does not seem like a lot, but it helps tremendously (again, ask my PUG healers). The key is healing spikes really. Vampiric blood adds HP (15%) so good to keep that up as much as possible. I use DS not just to get deathrunes, but to actually heal myself. Yes, someone is going to post a response claiming that it only does 2-3k healing w/out VB, but it helps. Then I can pop more runetaps (once every 30secs is far better than anyone will give credit), vampiric bloods, mark of bloods. VB + DS + RT + Blood Aura + MoB over and over again is amazing. That's where Blood tanking shines, how the talents match up.

Use DnD when you have to b/c really after 2 of those in a fight, not much chance of anybody catching up to you. The self healing is usually slower at the beginning of a fight b/c you have to apply diseases and usually a DnD. Once the Deathrunes come up and you have enough of a hate lead, you can lay down the healing skills. My initial rotation on bosses is IT > DnD > PS > MoB. MoB early is great because the healers haven't started healing yet so you don't have to worry about overlap and wasted heals as well as getting that timer started. In a 5-6min fight you can use it 2-3 times. (=
#12 Mar 04 2009 at 11:38 AM Rating: Decent
Towards Gikkers, I agree 100% with what you said about using the healing in my rotations. I've always done that, and I've survived countless bosses after stupid dps wipes because of it. Most of the healers that I've run with have agreed with what your healer friends have said, that I rarely need to be healed. And actually, I was using almost exactly the build that you recommended, but I was having a bit of trouble at the beginning of the fight with keeping agro in larger pulls. I'm excellent with 1-2 mobs, good with 3, but it starts to get difficult with more than that. With my newest build, I've had a bit easier time keeping agro at the very beginning until I get into my rotations.

Usually, I open up a fight with IT, PS, Pestilence, D&D, then Death Coil. After that, I keep up a pretty regular IT, PS, Pestilence, Death Strike, Heart Strike, Rune Strike (if its up), then Death Coil. I just repeat that until they are dead, or I'll swap out a heart strike for a rune tap, if needed for myself or the others in the group look like they need it (I have glyph of rune tap). I know that the main reason I have a bit of trouble with holding agro right off the bat is cause I don't drop my D&D right off the bat, but for some reason, when I do that, it seems to throw off my rotation. *shrugs* Other than that little bit, though, I really must say that I have loved being a blood tank much more than playing as a frost tank.
#13 Mar 04 2009 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
I'm excited to hear you weren't discouraged by the nay-saying on blood build!

In your build, I would recommend dropping the bloodworms and deathgrip. Worms die from AoE too quickly and deathgrip is pretty much a PvP talent. It's nice to have in emergencies, but dark command CD isn't so long that DG should be used instead.

Also keep in mind that you keeping threat is not all on you. A good dps knows when to let loose and when to hold back. I personally haven't had issues with this, but if this is a constant problem, they can hold off for 3seconds to let you get control.

Also right after IT > DnD > PS > Pest, the next blood rune that pops up, hit BB if threat is iffy on multiple targets, or wait a few seconds and drop a 2nd DnD. After 3.1, maybe BB right off the bat instead of pest will help. This will stall some self healing, but right off the bat you should be OK. Blood does have some good options as long as you have morbidity and use blood boil to its full potential.
#14 Mar 04 2009 at 1:58 PM Rating: Decent
I think that you have been looking at my original build. My new build is posted further down in the posts after I revised. I removed the blood worms since I hit 80, and I tweaked a few other things that seemed like they could use tweaking. And for the most part, after my dps realizes that if they are attacking right away it causes me problems with agro, they do give me a few seconds to get into a rhythm. I do tend to drop another D&D if it seems like it will be a prolonged fight, but for the most part, I only need the one.
#15 Mar 04 2009 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
Ha! I'm old news. (= My bad.
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