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HAT is nutsFollow

#1 Jan 06 2009 at 9:06 PM Rating: Decent
Seriously, the Honor Among Thieves build is nuts in 25 man raids. I'm in a raid right now with 4 HAT rogues, and I have 5 CP up constantly. I just spam Eviscerate every GCD, and since I get 25 energy back from Relentless Strikes it's practically free.

Here's a thread on the spec if you aren't familiar with it.

http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t38187-free_hat_deep_subtlety_you/

Go spec it right now and convince every rogue you know to spec it before it gets nerfed!
#2 Jan 06 2009 at 9:51 PM Rating: Decent
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The only thing I don't like about HaT is that it is too reliant on other peoples crits. Yes, it is amazing, but I still feel kinda "meh" about it because of that.
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#3 Jan 06 2009 at 10:51 PM Rating: Decent
How often other people crit is completely irrelevant in a raid with multiple rogues. Because of the current bug you get one combo point per rogue in the group every time someone crits - which is all the time. I just did 5.6k DPS on Loatheb in my half-garbage gear.
#4 Jan 07 2009 at 12:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Makaro wrote:
How often other people crit is completely irrelevant in a raid with multiple rogues. Because of the current bug you get one combo point per rogue in the group every time someone crits - which is all the time. I just did 5.6k DPS on Loatheb in my half-garbage gear.


Well that's just the point ... it's a bug .. your first post mentioned that people should try it before it get "nerfed" ... nerfing doesn't come into it ... it's a damn bug, it gives the false impression of high damage numbers, and it's not really anything to get excited about tbh.

Now if you were a single HaT rogue in the raid and still performed admirably, then hats off to you. (heh .. see what I did there).

Actually, the idea of spamming a single ability, and relying on others to be able to do so doesn't seem very exciting to me - probably why I like playing solo so much ... I have to do a bit more thinking, and can use more abilities more often than you guys that raid ;-)
#5 Jan 07 2009 at 1:09 AM Rating: Good
That's basically the reason I'm staying clear of HAT builds myself. I prefer at least a tiny bit of cerebral activity during a raid, and Muti at least gives me something to watch out for, that is, dropping something in the cycle. One button raiding got old after I finished TBC with my BM Hunter.
#6 Jan 07 2009 at 3:54 AM Rating: Decent
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rofl .. I was fully expecting to be absolutely flamed to high hell by all the raiding types telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about, and that raiding involves a lot of thinking and strategy, etc, etc, blah, blah ... I definitely did not expect support for me opinion. hehe, that really tickled me.

#7 Jan 07 2009 at 4:09 AM Rating: Good
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rofl .. I was fully expecting to be absolutely flamed to high hell by all the raiding types telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about, and that raiding involves a lot of thinking and strategy, etc, etc, blah, blah ... I definitely did not expect support for me opinion. hehe, that really tickled me.


What the hell are you talking about?













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#8 Jan 07 2009 at 8:40 AM Rating: Decent
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MasterOutlaw the Irrelevant wrote:
Quote:
rofl .. I was fully expecting to be absolutely flamed to high hell by all the raiding types telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about, and that raiding involves a lot of thinking and strategy, etc, etc, blah, blah ... I definitely did not expect support for me opinion. hehe, that really tickled me.


What the hell are you talking about?













If you're talking about your posts on another forum, don't be an ***. Link it so I can lewls, too.


Erm, I was talking about my post (2 above the one you quoted) where I took a cheap shot at raiders, accusing them of being one button spammers, and not having to think ... clearly people don't take as much exception you that kind of criticism any more ... good for y'all.

Or perhaps the subtlety of the insult was lost on most of the readers here.
#9 Jan 07 2009 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
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The HAT bug with multiple rogues causing multiple CP gains is getting fixed.
Sucks i know, but it was broken, and i dont like broken things.

source: mmo-champion.com
#10 Jan 07 2009 at 10:25 AM Rating: Default
robertlofthouse wrote:
Makaro wrote:
How often other people crit is completely irrelevant in a raid with multiple rogues. Because of the current bug you get one combo point per rogue in the group every time someone crits - which is all the time. I just did 5.6k DPS on Loatheb in my half-garbage gear.


Well that's just the point ... it's a bug .. your first post mentioned that people should try it before it get "nerfed" ... nerfing doesn't come into it ... it's a damn bug, it gives the false impression of high damage numbers, and it's not really anything to get excited about tbh.

Now if you were a single HaT rogue in the raid and still performed admirably, then hats off to you. (heh .. see what I did there).


Even with only one HaT rogue, it puts up numbers close to Combat and Mutilate. It's definitely not as good, but it's workable. I'd be switching back to Combat or Mutilate after the nerf. My point is, it's at least worth doing until then, as it's pretty fun and these opportunities don't come around very often.

Regarding the use of the term "nerf"... it's just a common phrase. Stop looking into semantics. Okay, use it until the "bug fix". Does that make you happy?
#11 Jan 07 2009 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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Makaro wrote:
robertlofthouse wrote:
Makaro wrote:
How often other people crit is completely irrelevant in a raid with multiple rogues. Because of the current bug you get one combo point per rogue in the group every time someone crits - which is all the time. I just did 5.6k DPS on Loatheb in my half-garbage gear.


Well that's just the point ... it's a bug .. your first post mentioned that people should try it before it get "nerfed" ... nerfing doesn't come into it ... it's a damn bug, it gives the false impression of high damage numbers, and it's not really anything to get excited about tbh.

Now if you were a single HaT rogue in the raid and still performed admirably, then hats off to you. (heh .. see what I did there).


Even with only one HaT rogue, it puts up numbers close to Combat and Mutilate. It's definitely not as good, but it's workable. I'd be switching back to Combat or Mutilate after the nerf. My point is, it's at least worth doing until then, as it's pretty fun and these opportunities don't come around very often.

Regarding the use of the term "nerf"... it's just a common phrase. Stop looking into semantics. Okay, use it until the "bug fix". Does that make you happy?


Yes, I do believe that HaT, when working as intended, does put out very comparable DPS ... that's Blizzard's stated intention, and it appears to be working well. Although, I guess if you're happy to exploit bugs to place yourself on a pedastal, then that's your perogative ... knock yourself out.

And as for the term "Nerf", yes, it's a common phrase used to refer to the adjustment of the strength an ability (that is currently working as intended) to make it less powerful than it was. A bug fix is rectifying an error .. 2 very different things.

Saying it's a nerf openly implies that it's working properly now, and they're adjusting the damage lower because the original design was overpowered, which is definitely not the case.

Let's say they made a change somewhere that mistakenly gave you 400% damage on your crits instead of 200%, I suppose you'd consider that a buff, while I'd consider it a bug ... Hmmm. And then when they fixed the bug to deal 200% again, you'd consider it a nerf.
#12 Jan 07 2009 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
By your logic, rogues shouldn't be using poisons on their offhand weapon because there is currently a bug where it will proc twice, which is also getting fixed in the next patch. By your logic, my "exploiting" the spec, as well as, say, the mage who solo'd the military quarter of Naxx is tantamount to using terrain hacks to kill bosses (a common practice by goldfarmers in Dire Maul back in the day). I'm simply using a spec that is already present in the game. Blizzard isn't going to punish anyone for using a spec that they created. And since they aren't going to punish anyone, why not use it? You're gimping yourself if you don't. My job in a raid is to do as much damage as possible, and right now HaT spec is the way to do that.
#13 Jan 07 2009 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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Makaro wrote:
By your logic, rogues shouldn't be using poisons on their offhand weapon because there is currently a bug where it will proc twice, which is also getting fixed in the next patch. By your logic, my "exploiting" the spec, as well as, say, the mage who solo'd the military quarter of Naxx is tantamount to using terrain hacks to kill bosses (a common practice by goldfarmers in Dire Maul back in the day). I'm simply using a spec that is already present in the game. Blizzard isn't going to punish anyone for using a spec that they created. And since they aren't going to punish anyone, why not use it? You're gimping yourself if you don't. My job in a raid is to do as much damage as possible, and right now HaT spec is the way to do that.


Woah there Tiger .. who's talking about punishment or hacking the game, or even excluding portions of the class makeup because they're bugged.

I'm simply saying that you're getting excited about a bugged spec that simply requires one button spamming, and regardless of whether or not it gives A1 DPS or not, that's not the way I (or a large amount of other rogues) like to play, which is why you're quite welcome to rave about it while everyone else waits for it to be fixed.

As I said, if you're happy placing yourself up on a pedastal by using a bugged build - go for it. Same as the Mage who solo'd the Naxx wing - good for him... I find the achievment less than impressive, simply because he used bugged mechanics.

These are the points that "My Logic" highlights. As for the bugged poisons ... nothing you can do about that - but the way you're carrying on, I fully expect you to start bragging about how much poison damage you're doing.

So use the bugged mechanics all you like, just don't cry about it when you get replaced by someone who can do decent DPS without a bugged mechanic when said bug is fixed.

You have a good evening now, you hear?! ;-)
#14 Jan 07 2009 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
Putting myself on a pedestal was not my intention, and I apologize if I came off sounding pretentious. My tone was more of a "hey guys, this is really neato! Come check it out and try it for yourself!"

My gaming in WoW is driven by results. For the longest time in TBC I specced mutilate and refused to respec to combat, even though combat was clearly the better spec. Why? Because I thought that mutilate was more fun and challenging. Once I finally bit the bullet and my DPS started to rise, I came to the conclusion that downing new bosses and being on top of the meters was more fun than being in the middle, regardless of spec. I was driven to help the raid succeed, and I decided to put that above my personal spec bias. But if WoW is no longer fun to you because you're "forced" into a spec where you push one button, then don't do it.

As an aside, the broken HaT spec is really really fun. I was skeptical of it for a long time and assumed it would get hotfixed immediately, and I didn't switch until yesterday.

Furthermore, I am fully capable of doing good DPS without the bugged spec. But I don't know of any rogue who can do over 5k dps with bad gear otherwise.

Edited, Jan 7th 2009 2:57pm by Makaro
#15 Jan 07 2009 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
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Erm, I was talking about my post (2 above the one you quoted) where I took a cheap shot at raiders, accusing them of being one button spammers, and not having to think ... clearly people don't take as much exception you that kind of criticism any more ... good for y'all.

Or perhaps the subtlety of the insult was lost on most of the readers here.


I must apologize, I misinterpreted your reply. My sleep-deprived brain for some reason thought you were delivering news of stirring the hornet's nest on some other forum and was eager to watch the flames fly. Kinda disappointed that wasn't the case, but I digress...
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#16 Jan 13 2009 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
Surprise surprise, no patch today. Long live broken DPS!
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