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#27 Jan 15 2009 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good

Horsemouth

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Dandwan wrote:

I nearly succumbed to the rising tide against bear tanks...I spent 2 days as full resto (and couldn't kill anything) went Restokin for a day (and felt like I really didn't have a purpose) and am now back to full on Tanking duties.

As a side note, I have tried a "full" bear spec, filling out Rend and Tear at the cost of Natural and Master Shapeshifter. And I hated it. I think I've settled on my optimum feral spec: 0/54/17.

Perhaps I miss the old days when I could MT Kara, then embarrass the raid by being top dps on Shade with a simple change of gear (and spamming Mangle because I couldn't move behind him).

/end Nostalgia

The spec in my sig would be a pure bear tank spec, where you expect to be tanking 90% of the time.

For full bawls on DPS I would recommend something ~~like this.~~ like this.

~~Genesis increase bleeds which is a good source of damage.~~ Furor at 4/5 is better as 5/5 wastes energy. You get to have both Ferocity and FA which is nice, FA gets in due to skipping bear talents. Most everything else is fairly obvious. People skipping Primal Precision is weird as it is an easy way to up DPS via less dodges and parries.

For a more combo oriented spec I would go here.

Just my opinion.

edit: Genesis doesn't affect bleeds so is lame for feral.

Edited, Jan 15th 2009 3:51pm by Horsemouth

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#28 Jan 15 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good

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Norellicus, yes that one would be better than the Idol of the Wastes for bosses if I didn't have my Idol of Terror still.

This is the World of AoE-craft, I swipe a lot. I mean a lot. On trash I swear I usually am Swiping, Lacerating and Mauling. I try and remember to switch to Terror for bosses, it's a losing battle though.

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#29 Jan 15 2009 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good

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Are you sure Genesis improves bleed damage? I could swear there were some definitive results showing it to only apply to spell effects...

Edit: This isn't 'definitive' but it's something.

Edited, Jan 15th 2009 2:38pm by Norellicus

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#30 Jan 15 2009 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good

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I haven't actually tested it myself.

Nice link BTW.

If the talent doesn't boost DoTs from bleeds then ya it would be a complete waste for a feral and yet another poorly written tooltip by Blizz.

edit : clarity

Edited, Jan 15th 2009 3:37pm by Horsemouth

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#31 Jan 15 2009 at 2:21 PM Rating: Default

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Rend and Tear is better than Master Shapeshifter.

Maul accounts for roughly half of my damage on boss fights. That is of course using a Lacerate, Lacerate, Mangle based rotation with Maul thrown in at every chance. Granted I thrown in a Swipe to proc my idol and FFF for the buff as needed but that is the base high threat rotation.

Rend and Tear is a huge threat/DPS boost. More so when compared to Master Shapeshifter. It is a PvP talent designed to help out multiple forms not a specific feral talent design to massively increase some of our main sources of damage and threat. Especially considering the high threat nature of Maul and that typically during a boss fight you are in an infinite rage situation so Maul is always up.

Horse, I agree whole-heartedly that Rend and Tear will do more damage than Master Shapeshifter. However, as you pointed out, this is World of AOE-craft. I find myself spamming Swipe and Maul with an occasional Mangle (which increases Maul damage by 30%). Lacerate does a tremendous amount of threat, however tab targeting to get it on every mob just doesn't work very well for me, so barring another bleed effect I don't get the same use out of the Rend and Tear talent as was intended.

I ran Heroic Violet Hold while I was specced into Rend and Tear, with a (much better geared) Feral Druid for DPS. He gave me constant bleeds on every target and in the end I did much less damage and actually had issues with threat.

For 5 talent points, I have chosen to buff all my damage by 4% rather than one attack by 20% (sometimes). But that's just my opinion.

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#32 Jan 15 2009 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good

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Ok, I went to the jerks site and read up; again. Here is a link to the tanking thread .

Here is a good one especially since the WWS still works. And another. Here is another great post about RnT threat.

The rest of the thread is made up of various questions some of which are from people trying to support your position. The rest of the the posters agree that RnT is awesome and borderline OP. As stated by me before and much of the WWS in the thread Maul is the bulk of a bears DPS/TPS so why wouldn't you be using Lacerate to give it a 20% buff?

So why aren't you using RnT yet?

The lack of Primal Precision is also a big no no for tanks. Here is a post in the thread with a WWS to illustrate this point and another . This is mainly due to parry hasting . Which is when the bosses swing timer resets when he parried your attack. Hello spike damage.

Here is a nice chunk of math about Swipe and Lacerate TPS . I didn't know the AP threshold on Swipe had fallen, I will have to check mine tonight and possibly change up my rotation.

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#33 Jan 15 2009 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent

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The rest of the thread is made up of various questions some of which are from people trying to support your position

My position was never which talents were better, just which spec I preferred. I may try Rend and Tear again, I was just underwhelmed while I was specced into it.

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#34 Jan 15 2009 at 5:08 PM Rating: Decent

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Complete and utter side note.

Subbing [ for { and ] for } you should change your sig to:

{link=http://www.example.com/}Text to Display{/link}

edit: leet spelling

Edited, Jan 15th 2009 8:08pm by Horsemouth

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#35 Jan 16 2009 at 1:33 AM Rating: Good

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Horsemouth wrote:

For full bawls on DPS I would recommend something like this. like this.

My "full bawls DPS" setting looks like this:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZEM0sfr00eR0IuAobAczb

In my eyes more pure DPS bawls than in your build, it works for me, but opinions differ.

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#36 Jan 16 2009 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good

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Immunios wrote:

My "full bawls DPS" setting looks like this:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0Z...R0IuAobAczb

In my eyes more pure DPS bawls than in your build, it works for me, but opinions differ.

Probably would have more as FI and FS don't add to DPS but I have gotten way to used to moving faster in cat form to not have the speed boost and getting the speed boost makes getting MS a non-option. The Furor difference is more dependent on what your expected/consistent raid make up is like.

I think it has gotten to the point that most ferals have 2/2 IMotW but that is a different thread.

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#37 Jan 16 2009 at 8:32 PM Rating: Decent

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So I went an tried a Rend and Tear tanking build, again. While I'm still not totally sold, I did find it quite a bit better than the last time I was specced like this. I still feel like I'm missing out on Swipe-fest AOE, but the increase to Maul is tremendous... I end up critting for over 4k with mangle and lacerate up.

Honestly, I think the breaking point for the whole Rend and Tear v. Master Shapeshifter comes at the 5-man Heroic level...Below this most groups eschew CC and just AOE tank (where Master Shapeshifter shines) while above this level it is more controlled and 1-2 mob tanking favors Rend and Tear.

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