Just wanted to comment a bit, now that I've finally ran a bunch of instances after 75+ levels (yeah, it's better you don't ask why its taken so long).
I've been able to run a whopping two runs out of 10 or so as Shadow/DPS. There were like 2 or 3 that I was invited to come as DPS, but in the end wound up healing (because the guy who said "I can heal!" did kind of a crappy job on his own). In the two I've DPS'd my output has been... bleh. I did Gundrak the other night with DK/SPriest/SPriest(me)/DiscPriest/and I think a Mage. Aside from the fact it was one of the smoothest PUG's I've done (although last night's UK PUG wins hands down- tied with my first flawless attempt at Nexus), my damage was lacking. A lot. And the worst part was, the other SPriest was *3* levels lower than me (73vs.76), and had respecced right before we went in into Shadow (he didn't even have all his talents set on the first few bunches of mobs). He had a bunch of t6 gear though, compared to my mimshmosh of tailored stuff+Quest Rewards... that's the only difference I can think of. Oh, and all he did was spam Mind Flay. Mind Flay Mind Flay Mind Flay.
I had somewhat of a rotation: VT>VE>DP>SW:D>MB>SW:P>MF, I'd MF until replenishment dropped, then (assuming I had time- usually on bosses) recast VT+MB to put it back up. If I moved too far on the hate list, I'd toss a Fade and drop my threat back down. I felt like I was pulling my weight... but still got outclassed badly. :(
My armory is here: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ner%27zhul&n=Binya I have some extra +hit stuff I can swap in, dunno if that makes that much of a difference (it does drop my Spell Power a bit though). My talents are pretty standard as far as Shadow goes, I think. Meh, it's just bothering me.
On the other end, I've healed a whole bunch of stuff, and sort of have a quasi make-shift healing set (it's mostly MP5 gear and some extra Spirit stuff). I started eating MP5 food as well (Pickled Fangtooth ftw), and as long as everyone in the group is halfway competent, I pretty much have very little issues (I do love DK tanks now though. Good ones, anyway :3).
I have noticed that life would be SO MUCH easier of I were Disc/Holy or vice-versa. However, I've definitely come from my solo-only, don't want responsibility of other people's lives mindset I used to have to *gasp* enjoy healing again. I'm pretty sure once I hit 80 I'm respeccing until dual specs are released (hopefully in this lifetime), since 9 times out of 10 I'm called on to heal rather than DPS anyway.
But I'm rambling.
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tl;dr version:
Got to DPS as Shadow a couple times and had crappy damage output vs. an SPriest 3 levels under me. Had to heal a ton of times now and am finally getting the hang of it and learning to enjoy it again. Dual Specs need to come soon and make my life easier though. :3
One quick question- I have 3 pretty sexy weapons in my posession. I'm currently using the one with the highest amount of Spellpower, but which of these would you use and why (the other two are sitting in my bank now... I need some room, haha).
Tower of the Infinite Mind vs. Staff of the Great Reptile vs. Frozen Scepter of Necromancy + Suntouched Flowers
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You wouldn't happen to have any hard dps numbers from those runs, would you? It might help a bit.
Your talents look fine. The only thing I might suggest would be to drop Improved Shadowform and Silence and instead pick up Veiled Shadows, Inner Focus, and Improved Vampiric Embrace (threat issues don't exist with that anymore). But that's a preference thing, it shouldn't affect your dps.
For your rotation, I would highly suggest using Mind Blast every time it's off cooldown, instead of just waiting for Replenishment to get low. I would start with something along the lines of VT>VE>MB (to get it on CD)>DP>SW:D (to finish off a stack of Shadow Weaving)>SW:P, by which time you should be able to cast another MB. Basically after that, just make all your DoTs are up on the mob, and cast Mind Flay only when nothing else needs refreshing. It's a filler spell, really.
Now, as for that spriest out-dpsing you, I'd say the gear did it. T6 can make a very big difference compared to (albeit, Northrend) greens/blues. Unfair, but true. He probably won't be replacing anything until well into 80.
Stats for a shadowpriest are as follows:
Hit (matters at 80 only) > Spellpower > Crit > (sometimes = to, depends on your gear already) Haste > Spirit > Int
The hitcap for a spriest is 288, if I recall. If you stay shadow at 80, get to that mark as soon as possible.
And finally,
If we use Shadowpriest.com's values, then Staff of the Great Reptile would be the best for you at that level.
And yes, Dual-spec does need to come out. Nao.
Your talents look fine. The only thing I might suggest would be to drop Improved Shadowform and Silence and instead pick up Veiled Shadows, Inner Focus, and Improved Vampiric Embrace (threat issues don't exist with that anymore). But that's a preference thing, it shouldn't affect your dps.
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I had somewhat of a rotation: VT>VE>DP>SW:D>MB>SW:P>MF, I'd MF until replenishment dropped, then (assuming I had time- usually on bosses) recast VT+MB to put it back up. If I moved too far on the hate list, I'd toss a Fade and drop my threat back down. I felt like I was pulling my weight... but still got outclassed badly. :(
For your rotation, I would highly suggest using Mind Blast every time it's off cooldown, instead of just waiting for Replenishment to get low. I would start with something along the lines of VT>VE>MB (to get it on CD)>DP>SW:D (to finish off a stack of Shadow Weaving)>SW:P, by which time you should be able to cast another MB. Basically after that, just make all your DoTs are up on the mob, and cast Mind Flay only when nothing else needs refreshing. It's a filler spell, really.
Now, as for that spriest out-dpsing you, I'd say the gear did it. T6 can make a very big difference compared to (albeit, Northrend) greens/blues. Unfair, but true. He probably won't be replacing anything until well into 80.
Stats for a shadowpriest are as follows:
Hit (matters at 80 only) > Spellpower > Crit > (sometimes = to, depends on your gear already) Haste > Spirit > Int
The hitcap for a spriest is 288, if I recall. If you stay shadow at 80, get to that mark as soon as possible.
And finally,
Quote:
Tower of the Infinite Mind vs. Staff of the Great Reptile vs. Frozen Scepter of Necromancy + Suntouched Flowers
If we use Shadowpriest.com's values, then Staff of the Great Reptile would be the best for you at that level.
And yes, Dual-spec does need to come out. Nao.
Quote:
The hitcap for a spriest is 288, if I recall. If you stay shadow at 80, get to that mark as soon as possible.
Wouldn't worry too much about it outside raiding though. Shadow Focus + Misery have you capped for heroics (any mob +2 level above you), and getting that initial SW:P off to proc Misery never seemed to be an issue.
Also, since we're looking at a Draenei, the hit cap for raiding would be 263 since you get an extra 1% +hit from heroic/inspiring presence.
That said, if you want to be capped for heroics BEFORE Misery, you only need another 2% +hit (53 rating @80)
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Also, since we're looking at a Draenei, the hit cap for raiding would be 263 since you get an extra 1% +hit from heroic/inspiring presence.
Ah, forgot about the Draenei buff. Thanks for catching that.
And Hit rating all depends on what you want to do. If all you want to do is regs and Heroics, then Kann is right, you don't need hit rating for that. But for raids and only raids, you really should try and hit that 263 cap. Nothing's more annoying than having to recast your spells, wasting time and mana.
Thanks for the MB tip. :o My last 3 talent points were going to be Veiled Shadows and the last point for Imp. Mind Blast (I've found Silence useful for pulling casting mobs closer to me initially without linking a bunch of stuff with it). I debated about Inner Focus... if I were to respec and invest in it, what you suggest be the most effective use of it? I do have the Glyph of Shadow as well, so crits are a beautiful thing. :3
As for Imp. VE, the only reason I didn't bother to pick it up was the change with it (it doesn't heal as much anymore I thought, and Imp.VE only affected the amount healed on the caster, not the rest of the group? Or am I mistaken? o_O 'Cause then I'll gladly respec and pick it up again).
I'm glad to see I'm heading in the right direction with my gear though- as far as quest rewards/drops I looked for Hit+Spell Power first and foremost, but knowing that I won't need to worry too much about that until Raid-level makes things a little easier for me then. I've been working on Tailoring to make some Ebonweave gear when I reach 80 to help with capping hit (have an article bookmarked from WoWInsider on hitting the cap, so I've been using that as something like a guide on the way), but all in all, at least I'm on the right path. Thanks guys~
As for Imp. VE, the only reason I didn't bother to pick it up was the change with it (it doesn't heal as much anymore I thought, and Imp.VE only affected the amount healed on the caster, not the rest of the group? Or am I mistaken? o_O 'Cause then I'll gladly respec and pick it up again).
I'm glad to see I'm heading in the right direction with my gear though- as far as quest rewards/drops I looked for Hit+Spell Power first and foremost, but knowing that I won't need to worry too much about that until Raid-level makes things a little easier for me then. I've been working on Tailoring to make some Ebonweave gear when I reach 80 to help with capping hit (have an article bookmarked from WoWInsider on hitting the cap, so I've been using that as something like a guide on the way), but all in all, at least I'm on the right path. Thanks guys~
VE doesn't heal as much for your party members. It still heals the same for you.
Now, as far as the rotation, goes - keep the DoTs going strong. VT should be up 100%. With a 200% coefficient, it's buy far one of your heaviest hitters. And don't discount Mind Flay. Otherwise, why did you go 3/3 Pain & Suffering? Even if all you get is 1 tick of the MF off, it's still refreshing SW:P. And it's still a chance for a nice crit hit. MF in my gear (as seen here, ticks for ~1k each and crits for 2k. And I'm not wearing particularly spectacular gear.
Now, as far as the rotation, goes - keep the DoTs going strong. VT should be up 100%. With a 200% coefficient, it's buy far one of your heaviest hitters. And don't discount Mind Flay. Otherwise, why did you go 3/3 Pain & Suffering? Even if all you get is 1 tick of the MF off, it's still refreshing SW:P. And it's still a chance for a nice crit hit. MF in my gear (as seen here, ticks for ~1k each and crits for 2k. And I'm not wearing particularly spectacular gear.
^ What Sham said.
Also,
For this, you have two options: You can use it in conjunction with a Mind Blast, which would benefit from the +25% crit chance (although not being a very costly spell in itself), or you can use it in conjunction with Devouring Plague. Devouring Plague is your most costly spell as a shadow priest (outside of holy spells and shadowform itself).
So basically, your options are using it with mind blast for +25% chance to crit and a small amount of free mana, or using it with Devouring Plague for a large amount of free mana. Every 3 minutes.
Either way, I would recommend using a macro for your choice. Something like this:
Replace SPELLNAME with the spell you choose. That macro will auto-cast Inner Focus before the spell if it's available. If not, then there will be no error message, and it will simply cast the spell. (The error sound will still play, though)
And finally,
As it currently stands, un-improved VE heals you for 15%, and your party for 3% of all damage you do. With the Imp VE talents, it heals you for 20/25%, and your party for 4/5% of all damage you do. It's a preference thing. If you don't want it, don't pick it up.
Also,
Quote:
I debated about Inner Focus... if I were to respec and invest in it, what you suggest be the most effective use of it?
For this, you have two options: You can use it in conjunction with a Mind Blast, which would benefit from the +25% crit chance (although not being a very costly spell in itself), or you can use it in conjunction with Devouring Plague. Devouring Plague is your most costly spell as a shadow priest (outside of holy spells and shadowform itself).
So basically, your options are using it with mind blast for +25% chance to crit and a small amount of free mana, or using it with Devouring Plague for a large amount of free mana. Every 3 minutes.
Either way, I would recommend using a macro for your choice. Something like this:
#showtooltip SPELLNAME /script UIErrorsFrame:Hide(); /cast Inner Focus /script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); /script UIErrorsFrame:Show(); /cast SPELLNAME
Replace SPELLNAME with the spell you choose. That macro will auto-cast Inner Focus before the spell if it's available. If not, then there will be no error message, and it will simply cast the spell. (The error sound will still play, though)
And finally,
Quote:
As for Imp. VE, the only reason I didn't bother to pick it up was the change with it (it doesn't heal as much anymore I thought, and Imp.VE only affected the amount healed on the caster, not the rest of the group? Or am I mistaken? o_O 'Cause then I'll gladly respec and pick it up again).
As it currently stands, un-improved VE heals you for 15%, and your party for 3% of all damage you do. With the Imp VE talents, it heals you for 20/25%, and your party for 4/5% of all damage you do. It's a preference thing. If you don't want it, don't pick it up.
I'm not sure what I just read. Did not see a question mark lol.
Dont use Vampiric Embrace in the middle of a rotation.
Use VE right before you start a rotation, or when you start taking damage, but do it before your rotation in general because you're losing DPS each time otherwise.
I dont bother with Devouring Plague too much, because it does not do as much damage DPS Vampiric Touch or Mind Flay. So, I use it when I have to keep moving in order to sustain DPS.
According to Max DPS, the best rotation for shadow priests, and I have tested, is Vampiric Embrace>SW Pain>Mind Blast>Mind Flay. Thus, Devouring Plague and Vampiric Embrace should be right before or after. Also, I throw in SW Death when I have to break a rotation which will also help sustain DPS.
I have enough time to use Mind Blast twice before VT is finished. That's another time when I use Death to finish off the rotation.
I was the top DPS in a group of people higher level than I was, without any hit or damage buffs and I still have T4.
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VT>VE>DP>SW:D>MB>SW:P>MF
Dont use Vampiric Embrace in the middle of a rotation.
Use VE right before you start a rotation, or when you start taking damage, but do it before your rotation in general because you're losing DPS each time otherwise.
I dont bother with Devouring Plague too much, because it does not do as much damage DPS Vampiric Touch or Mind Flay. So, I use it when I have to keep moving in order to sustain DPS.
According to Max DPS, the best rotation for shadow priests, and I have tested, is Vampiric Embrace>SW Pain>Mind Blast>Mind Flay. Thus, Devouring Plague and Vampiric Embrace should be right before or after. Also, I throw in SW Death when I have to break a rotation which will also help sustain DPS.
I have enough time to use Mind Blast twice before VT is finished. That's another time when I use Death to finish off the rotation.
I was the top DPS in a group of people higher level than I was, without any hit or damage buffs and I still have T4.
Mmmmm, I'd have to go with VT > MB > SW:P > MF > MB. Getting that extra MB in the rotation without having to endure a 2nd MF is priceless!
While well-intentioned, there are a few problems with this.
Use VE right before you start a rotation, or when you start taking damage, but do it before your rotation in general because you're losing DPS each time otherwise.
This is technically true, you DO theoretically lose dps by using VE in the middle of a rotation. However, the amount is so negligible that you shouldn't notice any difference using it in the middle of a rotation. It should be safe to use anytime. I also prefer to have it up before I start taking damage so that when I do I start healing myself and my party as soon as possible.
I dont bother with Devouring Plague too much, because it does not do as much damage DPS Vampiric Touch or Mind Flay. So, I use it when I have to keep moving in order to sustain DPS.
I understand if you're doing this while soloing, but on bosses or trash in instances and raids when a mob lasts long enough I don't see why you wouldn't. It's like having a second Shadow Word: Pain on your target. Even when you can stay still you should use it. All you have to do is apply it and it will keep on dealing damage while you are free do Mind flay or use a Mind Blast. Basically, Three DoTs > Two DoTs.
MaxDPS is crap for shadow priests. Shadowpriest.com is a much better resource. And why is this? Well, for one, spriests don't have a set "rotation". We have a lineup of spells in a certain order that we cast at the beginning of a fight to get 5 stacks of Shadow Weaving up, and after that we have a priority system that basically involves keeping all DoTs up, keeping Mind Blast off cooldown, and using Mind Flay to fill in the gaps. Secondly, the way MaxDPS calculates its numbers, I believe, is to cast that lineup of spells over and over, when in reality, we don't need to cast SW:P after every VT, or a DP right after. SW:P should be up as soon as you have 5 stacks of Shadow Weaving, and DP should always be on Cooldown.
This is fine.
I personally don't use SW:D. Again, it's great for soloing, but for raiding it's shown to only have an extremely marginal gain in dps. An instant-cast damage spell? Go figure. O.o
But it's just all a matter of preference. I'm not telling you how to play your $15, just giving tips that I think could help improve it.
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Use VE right before you start a rotation, or when you start taking damage, but do it before your rotation in general because you're losing DPS each time otherwise.
This is technically true, you DO theoretically lose dps by using VE in the middle of a rotation. However, the amount is so negligible that you shouldn't notice any difference using it in the middle of a rotation. It should be safe to use anytime. I also prefer to have it up before I start taking damage so that when I do I start healing myself and my party as soon as possible.
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I dont bother with Devouring Plague too much, because it does not do as much damage DPS Vampiric Touch or Mind Flay. So, I use it when I have to keep moving in order to sustain DPS.
I understand if you're doing this while soloing, but on bosses or trash in instances and raids when a mob lasts long enough I don't see why you wouldn't. It's like having a second Shadow Word: Pain on your target. Even when you can stay still you should use it. All you have to do is apply it and it will keep on dealing damage while you are free do Mind flay or use a Mind Blast. Basically, Three DoTs > Two DoTs.
Quote:
According to Max DPS, the best rotation for shadow priests, and I have tested, is Vampiric Embrace>SW Pain>Mind Blast>Mind Flay.
MaxDPS is crap for shadow priests. Shadowpriest.com is a much better resource. And why is this? Well, for one, spriests don't have a set "rotation". We have a lineup of spells in a certain order that we cast at the beginning of a fight to get 5 stacks of Shadow Weaving up, and after that we have a priority system that basically involves keeping all DoTs up, keeping Mind Blast off cooldown, and using Mind Flay to fill in the gaps. Secondly, the way MaxDPS calculates its numbers, I believe, is to cast that lineup of spells over and over, when in reality, we don't need to cast SW:P after every VT, or a DP right after. SW:P should be up as soon as you have 5 stacks of Shadow Weaving, and DP should always be on Cooldown.
Quote:
I have enough time to use Mind Blast twice before VT is finished. That's another time when I use Death to finish off the rotation
This is fine.
I personally don't use SW:D. Again, it's great for soloing, but for raiding it's shown to only have an extremely marginal gain in dps. An instant-cast damage spell? Go figure. O.o
But it's just all a matter of preference. I'm not telling you how to play your $15, just giving tips that I think could help improve it.
isn't Devouring Plague a disease? Maybe it helps the dps of DK's? I know they have some spells that do damage depending on the number of diseases on the target. don't know if it works with our DP.
Indeed the DK ability Pestilence will spread DP to all nearby enemies.
How sure are you on that? I can't say I've tested it but I did ask a Death Knight in an instance once, and he said there was no synergy between the two.
Confirmed. Multiple times. I love running instances with a DK, especially on pulls with multiple mobs. Their Pestilence "spreads any disease on the target to additional targets." As an added bonus, if one mob has ~15 seconds left on a Devouring Plague on them, and a Death Knight uses Pestilence, the disease will jump to additional mobs with a full 30 second duration, although the original mob will still only have ~15 seconds left on it.
Will it still heal you? Or heal the DK? Or no one?
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I understand if you're doing this while soloing, but on bosses or trash in instances and raids when a mob lasts long enough I don't see why you wouldn't. It's like having a second Shadow Word: Pain on your target. Even when you can stay still you should use it. All you have to do is apply it and it will keep on dealing damage while you are free do Mind flay or use a Mind Blast. Basically, Three DoTs > Two DoTs.
My problem with that, is Devouring Plague costs more than SW Pain, and during a long fight, I have to develop a rotation that conserves mana. The one I mentioned usually does the trick, if I dont use Death often, or throw it in when I have to skip something in my usual rotation. Usually, I end of having to move a lot, so DP will be going in the time that I am unable to do Mind Flay.
By the way, Mind Sear does huge DPS when I use it while Mind Blast is on cool-down, while fighting multiple targets. I would replace Mind Flay completely, if Mind Sear actually effected the focused target, lol.
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By the way, Mind Sear does huge DPS when I use it while Mind Blast is on cool-down, while fighting multiple targets. I would replace Mind Flay completely, if Mind Sear actually effected the focused target, lol.
This. <:-/
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