Sorry if this is long....
I'll start with a few facts about my self.
1-female, over 35.(nuff said, and have no problem being a b***** if need be.
2-Leveled and played my Holy pally as Holy since BC came out.
3-Been in the same guild the majority of that time.
4-Hate pugs.
5-I do my research and learn my character for stats and needed as much as possible, with a full time job.
6-Main healer most of the time in my guild.
7-Love Healing.
8-With correct gear/trinkets etc-Stats..Healing/Spell bonus-1793, a few crafted epics, mana regen-250ish,Haste over 200, Holy Crit 24.50% est. Mana pool over 16k. Specced full Holy with Kings and for Crit.
Now the issues that are causing or aggrivating my Emo-ness.
I've heard the term Skill>Gear, and I am now at a point of wondering if I have the skill to be a good solid main healer. Feel free to check my armory, Garly/Gorgonnash (not sure what I have on atm-questing)
I'll admit I am somewhat spoiled by the tanks in our guild, 1 druid, 1 prot pally, BOTH excellet tanks. I know how they work and how they play, and they know me.
But recently I was asked to do a pug but a friend for timed Cot, of which I've never run on heroic before. I've done heroics with my guild and have been fine, a few close calls but we take the time with each other to explain the fights etc. Well anyway, I let them know it's new to me and proceed, we have a DK tank, quite a few heroic/Naxx epics, Defense about 525, a hunter, mage, lock. We do the 1st boss ok. Well, long story short, the DK heads into a group of mobs, that includes the 2nd boss+lots of adds and he goes down fast, he's IMO taking quite a bit of crit damage, and pulled to many mobs the 2 clothies are taking lots of damage, I'm getting hit by the adds and my heals are getting interrupted, even throwing out a consecrate to keep adds off me. It's all I can do to keep the tank healed and that's using my biggest heal, repeatedly, resulting in oom. I try Beacon, and heal the clothies, but he's still going down fast. Needless to say, by wipe 3. I'm using everything I have available to me as a pally. I offer to back out of the grp, telling my friend that they need a differnt type of healer for this fight and tank...a druid or priest would possibly be beter suited with HoTs. Explain I'm trying my best but can't keep him up they say no, they want to continue, well needless to say...the same pattern continues, I try to adjust my healing rotation, etc...to no avail. Clothies both go down almost together, then tank. Wipe 5, I very nicely get ask to leave, so they can find a replacement, and I do so. 10 mins later I see the hunter in the grp in Dal, and wonder if they managed to finish or wiped with a different healer?
Needless to say, every since then I've been feeling somewhat inadaquate(before then aswell), I know I need to do "some" pugs for gear in preparation a Naxx run we are going to put together soon. I technically meet min requirement for Naxx but feel like I should be running for best I can get before hand, in addition to badges. If I see guildies in a heroic, I wonder why I wasn't asked...granted alot of us function on different time zones/schedules. Is it that they'd rather get a better healer? Yes I have asked and get the "you're doing fine" but I wonder if they're just being nice. But...I just can't bring myself to do it! I'm basically feeling like I don't have to skill to carry a 5 man anymore in addition, I can't take the elitist attitudes that go with those pugs or if it's just fear holding me back.
I don't use lots of addons, just the basic raiding ones, nothing like the healbot ones that tell you what to do next, I'm not as fast as I once was, or maybe as reactive as I should be or handling all the new pally healing changes quick enough. Yes, I was of the spam era and am trying my best to adjust to the more involved healing changes, I take pride in my toon and always try to keep her up to speed and prepared, but now feel like it might be time to put her up if I can't take the pressure of healing.
So have any of you had these moments, how do you get past or do you hang it up? Any advice on gear, etc would be appreciated.
Again sorry if you endured all my emo-ness to this point.
And Bode if you're out there, I model her after you as a reference point.
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Was he eating crits? I'm not 100% sure, but as a tank - my first goal is to push crits off the hit-table after that you stack other tanking stats, but Def Cap is first.
Perhaps he was undergeared???
You said 525 Def. I think Heroics require 535ish and Raids require 540. If he WAS wearing Naxx gear he must have taken some of it off to lower his defense to 525 because I don't think you could run that raid at 525ish.
Perhaps he was undergeared???
You said 525 Def. I think Heroics require 535ish and Raids require 540. If he WAS wearing Naxx gear he must have taken some of it off to lower his defense to 525 because I don't think you could run that raid at 525ish.
It's bad enough the tank had 525 defense in a heroic, but then he was trying to to the timed event?
No. He's a moron.
535 is an absolute minimum for me to heal a tank for heroics. After that I check health. If they're borderline on health I look for avoidance.
You sound like you find bad tanks. Healing someone that's crittable without massive HP and avoidance is hard for the best healers.. Or they could take one crit and just die. Some heroic mobs hit stupidly hard like that. Backstab from a heroic Nerubar Skirmisher hits me for 14k. A crit would one-shot me if I could be crit. Someone had better stun lock those.
No. He's a moron.
535 is an absolute minimum for me to heal a tank for heroics. After that I check health. If they're borderline on health I look for avoidance.
You sound like you find bad tanks. Healing someone that's crittable without massive HP and avoidance is hard for the best healers.. Or they could take one crit and just die. Some heroic mobs hit stupidly hard like that. Backstab from a heroic Nerubar Skirmisher hits me for 14k. A crit would one-shot me if I could be crit. Someone had better stun lock those.
Yes, he was in a mix of blues/heoic blues and some Naxx epics, I can't locate his armory atm due to being at work and it's blocked (LOL glad Ala isn't) But from memory he had about 26k hp and 525 Def. But shouldn't I still be able to overcome that to some extent....?
525 means that pretty much all of the elites in Stratholme will have the chance to crit him. Lets say 4-5 for each trash pack between the first two bosses (some of which are insane) and 4 for each trash pack in the town hall (except the first). That's just way too much damage coming in. Forget the bosses altogether for a moment, just the trash alone that's insane. A DK might be able to scrape through heroics with less than 540 when they are 1-2 pulls with CC, but you just DONT AOE TANK when you dont have enough Defense to keep from eating trash-crits. And that's a lot to overcome with resilience if he was stupidx2 and trying to do it that way. Even with pretty much everything that I want for gear out of the game until the next content patch, I can sometimes eat a metric crapton of damage in Stratholme. A decent healer can overcome this, but you can't expect ANY healer to overcome the kind of damage that a poorly geared tank will take in that instance.
Scholar
41 posts
I'm no healer, but if i were i wouldn't run heroics with a tank that's not at least at 535 Def. As a tank (which I am) I refused to run heroics til i was defense capped (which was 1 whole day while I gathered mats for Tempered Saronite stuff). It's too much pressure on everyone, especially the healer, to not get crit immune before doing said content.
The tank is bad, we've established that, but what about the dps? Why were the clothies taking so much damage? The adds should have been aoe tanked better, or if you are talking about the risen zombies, they can easily be dispatched with a minor aoe. Heroic strat timed run is hard, and relies mostly on your dps. Most fights should be over soon enough that it doesn't matter if the tank gets crit, the healer can't run oom. Sounds like the group as a whole wasn't ready for it, which happens a lot unfortunately. I personally would have left after the 3rd wipe regardless, by then you know if its bad luck or just the group can't handle it.
Your mana is a little low, but otherwise you have decent stats for any heroic as long as your tanks and dps are well geared. I've found that (pre-naxx gearing) the dps having even a couple thousand extra life make all the difference.
What I do on tough pulls like that is precast a few spells ahead of time. Beacon on the tank, sacred shield on the tank and any dps you expect to be hit. And if you are casting your second holy light in a row, look at your Divine Plea and keep it on cooldown. The penalty is nothing when it lets you keep bombing huge holy lights. Remember, it doesn't matter if you end the fight with 0 or 12k mana, as long as no one dies. Who cares if you waste mana if you have extra to spare.
A nice tactic in strat is to use holy wrath. It will stun all the undead in an aoe, so if they come to you, you don't even have to change targets to get them off you. Switching to concentration aura and just healing through it is viable too, remember we have plate and shields, and with talents and unimproved conc aura we suffer no pushback.
Paladin healing is one of the least intuitive healers in this game. We have to think about each and every fight, and play differently each time. Look at your new abilities. Put beacon on the tank every single pull until you are confident that you know the fight and tank well enough that you can do something differently. Use sacred shield every pull. Demote flash of light to a top off spell, rely on holy light and holy shock like you never could in BC. Keep divine plea on cooldown, and gem and gear for int.
Good luck.
Your mana is a little low, but otherwise you have decent stats for any heroic as long as your tanks and dps are well geared. I've found that (pre-naxx gearing) the dps having even a couple thousand extra life make all the difference.
What I do on tough pulls like that is precast a few spells ahead of time. Beacon on the tank, sacred shield on the tank and any dps you expect to be hit. And if you are casting your second holy light in a row, look at your Divine Plea and keep it on cooldown. The penalty is nothing when it lets you keep bombing huge holy lights. Remember, it doesn't matter if you end the fight with 0 or 12k mana, as long as no one dies. Who cares if you waste mana if you have extra to spare.
A nice tactic in strat is to use holy wrath. It will stun all the undead in an aoe, so if they come to you, you don't even have to change targets to get them off you. Switching to concentration aura and just healing through it is viable too, remember we have plate and shields, and with talents and unimproved conc aura we suffer no pushback.
Paladin healing is one of the least intuitive healers in this game. We have to think about each and every fight, and play differently each time. Look at your new abilities. Put beacon on the tank every single pull until you are confident that you know the fight and tank well enough that you can do something differently. Use sacred shield every pull. Demote flash of light to a top off spell, rely on holy light and holy shock like you never could in BC. Keep divine plea on cooldown, and gem and gear for int.
Good luck.
I was a bit spoiled my one and only attempt at the timed event in CoT: Strat. We down the Infinite Corrupter with about 2 minutes to spare and then toddled over and roflstomped Mal'Ganis.
We had a holy paladin healer.
It's great to see players who are willing to look at themselves first to see if there's something they could have done better, but at some point it's perfectly acceptable to draw the line and say, "No, you blew it, I was fine."
A critable tank in heroics should be happy to just finish the run, much less be bawlsy enough to even consider going for a challenging achievement. DK tanks complaining about difficulty in getting geared and thinking it entitles them to take shortcuts and blame others should probably just focus on their dps set and leave tanking to the people who are cut out for it.
525 defense is crit immune vs. level 80 mobs. 530 vs. level 81. 535 vs. level 82 (heroic bosses). 540 vs. level 83 (raid bosses).
(Druid tanks are exempt from this because they can be crit immune through talents alone.)
That is your new mantra as a healer in determining whether or not your tank is adequately geared for the content you're running. My guess is that if you were to examine the DKs gear, not every socket would have a +16 defense gem in it. Not every gear slot that has a defense enchant option will have defense in it. My guess is that you'd find a fair number of stamina augments floating around, maybe agility to cloak...that sort of thing.
Good to check on a DK tank is whether or not they have the head glyph from Argent Crusade revered and the shoulder inscription from Sons of Hodir honored (15 dodge/10 defense (I might have those backwards)). Since most DKs would not likely have spent a lot of time in Outland grinding rep with Aldor or Scryers for the exalted shoulder inscriptions, Sons of Hodir rep is their only recourse...or a +18 stam kit on their shoulders. Sons of Hodir -> honored takes less than a week if you do all of the quests and then do the dailies available to you every day.
You, as a healer, pay attention to what you need and once you find out what you need, you go out and get it. A good tank will do the exact same thing. A good tank will never go into a heroic unless they are crit immune. Crit immunity for a tank is like heroic attunement...any tank worth the spot they take in a party has no business going into them if they're still able to eat crits. Heroics are tuned to be challenging for healers with the assumption that the tank isn't going to be eating crits. If the tank is, the healer would have to be grossly overgeared in order to carry the tank through a lot of the encounters.
We had a holy paladin healer.
It's great to see players who are willing to look at themselves first to see if there's something they could have done better, but at some point it's perfectly acceptable to draw the line and say, "No, you blew it, I was fine."
A critable tank in heroics should be happy to just finish the run, much less be bawlsy enough to even consider going for a challenging achievement. DK tanks complaining about difficulty in getting geared and thinking it entitles them to take shortcuts and blame others should probably just focus on their dps set and leave tanking to the people who are cut out for it.
525 defense is crit immune vs. level 80 mobs. 530 vs. level 81. 535 vs. level 82 (heroic bosses). 540 vs. level 83 (raid bosses).
(Druid tanks are exempt from this because they can be crit immune through talents alone.)
That is your new mantra as a healer in determining whether or not your tank is adequately geared for the content you're running. My guess is that if you were to examine the DKs gear, not every socket would have a +16 defense gem in it. Not every gear slot that has a defense enchant option will have defense in it. My guess is that you'd find a fair number of stamina augments floating around, maybe agility to cloak...that sort of thing.
Good to check on a DK tank is whether or not they have the head glyph from Argent Crusade revered and the shoulder inscription from Sons of Hodir honored (15 dodge/10 defense (I might have those backwards)). Since most DKs would not likely have spent a lot of time in Outland grinding rep with Aldor or Scryers for the exalted shoulder inscriptions, Sons of Hodir rep is their only recourse...or a +18 stam kit on their shoulders. Sons of Hodir -> honored takes less than a week if you do all of the quests and then do the dailies available to you every day.
You, as a healer, pay attention to what you need and once you find out what you need, you go out and get it. A good tank will do the exact same thing. A good tank will never go into a heroic unless they are crit immune. Crit immunity for a tank is like heroic attunement...any tank worth the spot they take in a party has no business going into them if they're still able to eat crits. Heroics are tuned to be challenging for healers with the assumption that the tank isn't going to be eating crits. If the tank is, the healer would have to be grossly overgeared in order to carry the tank through a lot of the encounters.
IMO, the group make up sucked to begin with. that entire place is tank n spank. you need burst dmg and lots of it. if anyone was sub 1600dps, boo to them.
in a decent group, you will not wipe on any trash in there. dps should be able to down a whole pack of mobs before the tank needs a heal. last time i downed the Corrupter we had a Druid healer, DK tank, DK, War, and Ret(me). what a sweet run that was. we all pretty much tanked our own kills. the healer never dropped below 75% mana yet he still kept us topped off.
i like the recommendation of Holy Wrath. well timed, it interrupts multiple spell casts and roots the mobs for aoe. but bring a Ret for that stuff.
note: timed Strat is NOT easy if you dont have an ideal group or seasoned group. even when you do, any mistake by anyone will halt your success. if you dont have more than 15mins before you enter the building, consider it a loss.
you will eventually get your drake. when you do, you can say F U to that sad PUG. WTB more healers that care like you do.
in a decent group, you will not wipe on any trash in there. dps should be able to down a whole pack of mobs before the tank needs a heal. last time i downed the Corrupter we had a Druid healer, DK tank, DK, War, and Ret(me). what a sweet run that was. we all pretty much tanked our own kills. the healer never dropped below 75% mana yet he still kept us topped off.
i like the recommendation of Holy Wrath. well timed, it interrupts multiple spell casts and roots the mobs for aoe. but bring a Ret for that stuff.
note: timed Strat is NOT easy if you dont have an ideal group or seasoned group. even when you do, any mistake by anyone will halt your success. if you dont have more than 15mins before you enter the building, consider it a loss.
you will eventually get your drake. when you do, you can say F U to that sad PUG. WTB more healers that care like you do.
I went into VH with a tank around the level yours was at, and got spanked. And I have 300 sp, 8% crit and 200 more haste than you. Its not your fault the tank has no business tanking an instance, let alone making a bad pull.
How is your healing UI? More often than not when I see a healer in gear failing its because they have a half assed UI.
How is your healing UI? More often than not when I see a healer in gear failing its because they have a half assed UI.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Well thank you all for the encouragement and kind words ( I might not post alot but am always on here)....yeah I know I need to toughen up some, and not take blame for everything. I did a H UP run with my guild tonight NO issues, and a decent run of Naxx. Overall I think I did good. Got a couple upgrades. Well at the time of the CoT run I knew I was probably low myself at about 1650ish unbuffed, and after telling them that should have declined and save myself the headache. Not take for granted the "tank" is ready either, or the clothie dps.
Well tonight I made sure to keep Beacon on the tank and myself, Sacred shield as often as I could on tank and and any clothies taking damage. In Naxx I'd Beacon both tanks and myself...judge on each boss, kept my buffs up and shield on MT, also using HS on the run and try to keep my Divine plea in use. So far I've gotten my healing bonus to about 1821, will make a few adjustments tomorrow to up my mp5 that hurt me a bit. But it's hard to get out of spamming FoL...but I'm trying. LOL
Well the UI I'm using is fairly simple:
-DBM
-X-perl
-Titan
-some action bar addon
-Bagnon
Bode I see you have a new build, not sure I'm ready to take on that kind of dmg for a raid just yet.(not a stalker) but I see that's part of the purpose of a good pally healer.
But anyway I guess I need to, if I'm gonna attempt a pug is to be alot more selective of the overall grp, just hate it bothers me so at times. Noooo female comments!!! ;)
Well anyway, tonight was a good confidence builder, but still lots to learn and do. Thanks again so much for ALL the advice!
Well tonight I made sure to keep Beacon on the tank and myself, Sacred shield as often as I could on tank and and any clothies taking damage. In Naxx I'd Beacon both tanks and myself...judge on each boss, kept my buffs up and shield on MT, also using HS on the run and try to keep my Divine plea in use. So far I've gotten my healing bonus to about 1821, will make a few adjustments tomorrow to up my mp5 that hurt me a bit. But it's hard to get out of spamming FoL...but I'm trying. LOL
Well the UI I'm using is fairly simple:
-DBM
-X-perl
-Titan
-some action bar addon
-Bagnon
Bode I see you have a new build, not sure I'm ready to take on that kind of dmg for a raid just yet.(not a stalker) but I see that's part of the purpose of a good pally healer.
But anyway I guess I need to, if I'm gonna attempt a pug is to be alot more selective of the overall grp, just hate it bothers me so at times. Noooo female comments!!! ;)
Well anyway, tonight was a good confidence builder, but still lots to learn and do. Thanks again so much for ALL the advice!
I did some pvp last night and took my new 3v3 to 1750. Which is why I have points in Protection like I do.
I have a couple PvE macros that I use.
Sacred Shield
#showtooltip
/cast [target=focus] Sacred Shield
Simple macro and my focus target is the tank.
Judge tanks target
/cast [target=target] [target=focustarget, harm] Judgement of Light
Can change Light/Wisdom I just have light cause I was pvping. Basically you dont have to be targeting tank or mob, it will automatically judge the tanks target. Very nice to have.
Next, get Grid + Clique (2 seperate add ons). Trust me. This is going to be an add on that will seem like a headache and really daunting at first but it is the heal ui combo that almost every top healer in the game uses. Grid is a simple raid frame UI, box like it will display a wealth of information such as aggro, debuffs, range. Healbot does the same thing but this is much more flexible. Clique is a click to cast add on that when installed will add a new tab to your spell book. From there you simply fiddle around and you can make it so a simple mouse click = a heal. Set it up to your own liking. I have FoL, HL, Shock, Cleanse, BoP, Beacon, Sacrifice (for tank!), Salvation etc all keybound. In fact I was somewhat famous because I was so fast on a BoP back in the day that I would get it off before someone knew they even had aggro (thanks to grid aggroalert) back when we did Felmyst, or even Zuljin lynx form etc.
Like I said it seems daunting at first but is pretty great once you get the hang of it.
I have a couple PvE macros that I use.
Sacred Shield
#showtooltip
/cast [target=focus] Sacred Shield
Simple macro and my focus target is the tank.
Judge tanks target
/cast [target=target] [target=focustarget, harm] Judgement of Light
Can change Light/Wisdom I just have light cause I was pvping. Basically you dont have to be targeting tank or mob, it will automatically judge the tanks target. Very nice to have.
Next, get Grid + Clique (2 seperate add ons). Trust me. This is going to be an add on that will seem like a headache and really daunting at first but it is the heal ui combo that almost every top healer in the game uses. Grid is a simple raid frame UI, box like it will display a wealth of information such as aggro, debuffs, range. Healbot does the same thing but this is much more flexible. Clique is a click to cast add on that when installed will add a new tab to your spell book. From there you simply fiddle around and you can make it so a simple mouse click = a heal. Set it up to your own liking. I have FoL, HL, Shock, Cleanse, BoP, Beacon, Sacrifice (for tank!), Salvation etc all keybound. In fact I was somewhat famous because I was so fast on a BoP back in the day that I would get it off before someone knew they even had aggro (thanks to grid aggroalert) back when we did Felmyst, or even Zuljin lynx form etc.
Like I said it seems daunting at first but is pretty great once you get the hang of it.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
WOW, TY Bode, I do have the "Judge Tanks taget" macro, I'll add the other. But far as Grid and Clique, would I keep x-perl or does one of those replace it?
I usually have a pretty short fuse with people that don't take a few extra seconds to do things correctly. They think they are saving time by chain pulling when in reality they are rushing into bad situations that just make the night longer than it has to be.
I start with a sarcastic remark the first time dps pulls aggro, "let the plate take the damage" or something
Second time I say lets stop playing retarded.
I can come off a jerk, but I still get requests within a few minutes of logging on because people know I try to be involved in speed runs. You could try to verbalize it better than me, but the point is the same. Basics are basics. As a paladin there is only so far BoL can take you, if too many people are taking damage when they shouldn't it can be a nightmare. Best thing you can do is try to find a tank that is at/near the same gear progression as you (ie needs to run more heroics) and has a similar play schedule as you. lf3m DPS-tards gets filled pretty quick, and most of the time if the tank leads you though the instance well dps doesn't get bored and start playing with their toys.
edit: for what its worth, I find healing 25mans a lot easier than heroics sometimes lol :P
Edited, Jan 5th 2009 6:14am by crazyhtown
Edited, Jan 5th 2009 6:15am by crazyhtown
I start with a sarcastic remark the first time dps pulls aggro, "let the plate take the damage" or something
Second time I say lets stop playing retarded.
I can come off a jerk, but I still get requests within a few minutes of logging on because people know I try to be involved in speed runs. You could try to verbalize it better than me, but the point is the same. Basics are basics. As a paladin there is only so far BoL can take you, if too many people are taking damage when they shouldn't it can be a nightmare. Best thing you can do is try to find a tank that is at/near the same gear progression as you (ie needs to run more heroics) and has a similar play schedule as you. lf3m DPS-tards gets filled pretty quick, and most of the time if the tank leads you though the instance well dps doesn't get bored and start playing with their toys.
edit: for what its worth, I find healing 25mans a lot easier than heroics sometimes lol :P
Edited, Jan 5th 2009 6:14am by crazyhtown
Edited, Jan 5th 2009 6:15am by crazyhtown
just sounds like you had a bad tank, or one that got coddled into a naxx run. Before i hit the def cap i could easily make up for beeing crittable by doing several different things, you probly had a tank that had very little experience, and thought that because he had naxx gear he was good to tank heroics. I have no naxx gear at all and have 553 defense so it isnt hard. You could easily heal me :D lol
I always armory tanks if im pugging in as a dps, if their crittable i dont bother going, just adds alot of headache while you carry the tank through instead of him actually getting the gear he needs first.
I always armory tanks if im pugging in as a dps, if their crittable i dont bother going, just adds alot of headache while you carry the tank through instead of him actually getting the gear he needs first.
LOL yes after reading all this, I keep armory up in the back ground now. One of the tanks in my guild and I did a heroic pug and pugged a few for a naxx run and I'd check stats gear etc.
I'm learning to speak up also in grps, it was the majority of the grps first Naxx run, so when a pugged tank decided to call everyone "retards" that died in a particulary hard boss, the "dance" guy (LOL) I made sure to point that out to him that his comments aren't needed or welcomed, this was also after he ragged on a rogue we pulled out of BG and was still geard in PVP stuff. Putting others down for minor things is an immediate NONO in my book, take your L33T A@@ home!
I'm learning to speak up also in grps, it was the majority of the grps first Naxx run, so when a pugged tank decided to call everyone "retards" that died in a particulary hard boss, the "dance" guy (LOL) I made sure to point that out to him that his comments aren't needed or welcomed, this was also after he ragged on a rogue we pulled out of BG and was still geard in PVP stuff. Putting others down for minor things is an immediate NONO in my book, take your L33T A@@ home!
OMGEverythingIsTaken wrote:
just sounds like you had a bad tank, or one that got coddled into a naxx run. Before i hit the def cap i could easily make up for beeing crittable by doing several different things, you probly had a tank that had very little experience, and thought that because he had naxx gear he was good to tank heroics. I have no naxx gear at all and have 553 defense so it isnt hard. You could easily heal me :D lol
I always armory tanks if im pugging in as a dps, if their crittable i dont bother going, just adds alot of headache while you carry the tank through instead of him actually getting the gear he needs first.
I always armory tanks if im pugging in as a dps, if their crittable i dont bother going, just adds alot of headache while you carry the tank through instead of him actually getting the gear he needs first.
???
Just to add to what everyone has already said - you will have bad runs. Don't let it get you down at all. Even being over-geared, I've had failed PuGs on heroics. You can only carry a group so far. Just keep on trying. You have the stats to run every single heroic.
Successfully completing a run requires all people in the party to work together. It may not have been the tanks fault, but the DPSers, or just how the group was meshing. There are a million reasons PuGs go wrong. All you can do is try to learn from it, so you'll be more prepared for the situation next time.
For heroic CoT, a Consecrate will not keep adds off you. It keeps them on you, and does minimal damage. So they will just keep hitting you. Never ever use Consecrate as a healer unless you are trying to help kill something. Like other have said - Holy Wrath works better. It kills all the non-elite adds instantly, and stuns any elite adds. Much much better.
Like Bode said - get a good raidframe that helps you understand aggro. Grid is phenomenal for that. It will only replace your raidframes. It will not replace your party frame, toon frame, target frame or focus frame. So you can keep X-perl, but just disable the X-perl raid frames. Clique is a nice addition to Grid, but mouseover macros will work just as well. Your choice.
Finally - don't make any changes to up your MP5. MP5 is the lowest priority stat for Healadins. You need to load up on Int. Int >>>>>>>>>>>> MP5. The reason is Divine Plea. Divine Plea will give you all the regen you need so that you don't have to waste any itemization on MP5.
Good luck, and have fun healing :)
Successfully completing a run requires all people in the party to work together. It may not have been the tanks fault, but the DPSers, or just how the group was meshing. There are a million reasons PuGs go wrong. All you can do is try to learn from it, so you'll be more prepared for the situation next time.
For heroic CoT, a Consecrate will not keep adds off you. It keeps them on you, and does minimal damage. So they will just keep hitting you. Never ever use Consecrate as a healer unless you are trying to help kill something. Like other have said - Holy Wrath works better. It kills all the non-elite adds instantly, and stuns any elite adds. Much much better.
Like Bode said - get a good raidframe that helps you understand aggro. Grid is phenomenal for that. It will only replace your raidframes. It will not replace your party frame, toon frame, target frame or focus frame. So you can keep X-perl, but just disable the X-perl raid frames. Clique is a nice addition to Grid, but mouseover macros will work just as well. Your choice.
Finally - don't make any changes to up your MP5. MP5 is the lowest priority stat for Healadins. You need to load up on Int. Int >>>>>>>>>>>> MP5. The reason is Divine Plea. Divine Plea will give you all the regen you need so that you don't have to waste any itemization on MP5.
Good luck, and have fun healing :)
Just want to add a little on stats to stack. All the other advice on here so far has been spot on.
Paladins need Intellect, Spell Crit, Spl power, Haste
Intellect = Larger mana pool, more mana returned via Divine Plea
Spell Crit = Mana returned through crits
Spl Power = 'nuff said
Haste = faster casts
The priority of these can switch around depending on what gear level you are at.
I'd ignore haste until you are in mostly naxx gear and have no mana issues.
To start with it would go like this:
Intellect > Spl power > Crit > Haste
Once you get to around 1700 ish spl power:
Intellect > Spl Crit > Spl Power > Haste
Once you hit around 30-35% crit (holy)
intellect > Haste > Spl crit > Spl power
MP5 is no longer a stat you want to stack due to the far superior regen from divne plea. You'll get a little MP5 from various pieces of gear, this is enough, no need to gem/chant for it.
Paladins need Intellect, Spell Crit, Spl power, Haste
Intellect = Larger mana pool, more mana returned via Divine Plea
Spell Crit = Mana returned through crits
Spl Power = 'nuff said
Haste = faster casts
The priority of these can switch around depending on what gear level you are at.
I'd ignore haste until you are in mostly naxx gear and have no mana issues.
To start with it would go like this:
Intellect > Spl power > Crit > Haste
Once you get to around 1700 ish spl power:
Intellect > Spl Crit > Spl Power > Haste
Once you hit around 30-35% crit (holy)
intellect > Haste > Spl crit > Spl power
MP5 is no longer a stat you want to stack due to the far superior regen from divne plea. You'll get a little MP5 from various pieces of gear, this is enough, no need to gem/chant for it.
Ok, I'm on my way to better stats and yes I need more INT! I'm having OOM issues and was thinking uping MP5 stats, I even switched out a +8 stat to chest for a MP5 enchant, now I'm thinking I should have left it alone. And have been focusing more on haste then crit, but will try to fix all this soon.
Thanks again all, sometimes maybe I care to much? let the small things get to me, LOL I know it's the "interwebz" and people are going to always be "real"...but because my guild is so cool, but yet small, I'm forced to deal with the "outside" world of Wow when we need to pug. LOL
Thanks again all, sometimes maybe I care to much? let the small things get to me, LOL I know it's the "interwebz" and people are going to always be "real"...but because my guild is so cool, but yet small, I'm forced to deal with the "outside" world of Wow when we need to pug. LOL
Garly wrote:
Ok, I'm on my way to better stats and yes I need more INT! I'm having OOM issues and was thinking uping MP5 stats, I even switched out a +8 stat to chest for a MP5 enchant, now I'm thinking I should have left it alone. And have been focusing more on haste then crit, but will try to fix all this soon.
I wouldn't spend the money replacing it now, but I would get the +stats with your next upgrade (probably the tier piece). In 5-man content and many 10-man raids, int and mp5 are very close in value where mana regen is concerned (considering that even boss fights will be relatively short). It's when you have access to replenishment that +int really shines, which is why it's largely the 25-man/hardcore crowd that are touting its virtues.
8 int =
152 mana (with kings) + 38 mana (3.2 mp5) from each divine plea + [half of] .25% of 152 mana per second (1 mp5) from replenishment [assuming 50% uptime] + 2 spellpower + a trivial amount of crit...
Without replenishment, +8 mp5 provides equal replenishment to the initial mana pool increase and the additional divine plea regen in 32 5-second cycles (2.67 minutes). With just 50% replenishment uptime, +8 mp5 will take 44 cycles - 3.67 minutes - to catch up, and 51 cycles - 4.33 minutes - if replenishment uptime is 90%. And even if the fight goes longer, you have to take the 2 spellpower into consideration (I think the .0004 of your output the extra crit will regen can be safely ignored).
So if you can't count on kings or replenishment, mp5 is very competetive for tough trash or instance bosses (shouldn't require saying that mana regen is not an issue for easy trash). It's when you buttress +int with multiple synergetic raid buffs that it tends to dominate the conversation.
Oh, forgot to mention, not only does the Titansteel Guardian have no +int, it's losing 30-40 SP with the next patch, which would put it a notch below the 408 spellpower weapons in my book...
Mp5 is trash for paladins now.
Absolute utter garbage, it should never ever be your focus. Can't state this strongly enough.
As Elmuneco stated Intellect = Mp5 (/cheer divine plea) it also equal mana, healing and crit. Back in Burning Crusade Mp5 was good because it stacked much more favourably for FoL spam compared to spellcrit and illumination. Now with Sacred Shield (50% extra spell crit for FoL is sexy amirite???) and the introduction of Divine Plea we just plain don't need to factor Mp5 heavily into how we gear up. Spellcrit, Intellect and Haste. Raid buffed I am 42% Holy Crit, 23-24k mana and about 28% haste (including JotPure). Did Sarth 1 drake up to help some people out on Sunday and I didnt go below 85% mana and was beating CoH Priests and Druids by about 6-8% of total raid healing.
Absolute utter garbage, it should never ever be your focus. Can't state this strongly enough.
As Elmuneco stated Intellect = Mp5 (/cheer divine plea) it also equal mana, healing and crit. Back in Burning Crusade Mp5 was good because it stacked much more favourably for FoL spam compared to spellcrit and illumination. Now with Sacred Shield (50% extra spell crit for FoL is sexy amirite???) and the introduction of Divine Plea we just plain don't need to factor Mp5 heavily into how we gear up. Spellcrit, Intellect and Haste. Raid buffed I am 42% Holy Crit, 23-24k mana and about 28% haste (including JotPure). Did Sarth 1 drake up to help some people out on Sunday and I didnt go below 85% mana and was beating CoH Priests and Druids by about 6-8% of total raid healing.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Hum, so you'd guys recommend just switching out all my MP5 type gems for straight INT? that would be an easy upgrade until better gear peices. think my current armory has all my healing stuff on it, and YES i need to work on those 2 green trinks...
our official Nax raid starts the 9th, we've been trying to do heroics as much as schedules allow but noting is dropping for me right now.
our official Nax raid starts the 9th, we've been trying to do heroics as much as schedules allow but noting is dropping for me right now.
NEVER GEM Mp5, even in BC that was a bad choice!!!!
Either Int or Crit, I'd recommend crit.
Edit - Burning Crusade I had 230 mp5 while casting, unbuffed, 330+ buffed. Wotlk I have 46mp5. Seriously its like gearing Strength on a hunter, without a doubt its the worst possible choice for a paladin. Try to avoid gear with it, go for crit.
Edited, Jan 7th 2009 11:00pm by bodhisattva
Edited, Jan 7th 2009 11:01pm by bodhisattva
Either Int or Crit, I'd recommend crit.
Edit - Burning Crusade I had 230 mp5 while casting, unbuffed, 330+ buffed. Wotlk I have 46mp5. Seriously its like gearing Strength on a hunter, without a doubt its the worst possible choice for a paladin. Try to avoid gear with it, go for crit.
Edited, Jan 7th 2009 11:00pm by bodhisattva
Edited, Jan 7th 2009 11:01pm by bodhisattva
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
I am probably going to summarize what everyone else has said, but here goes.
If the tank had 525 defense, he had no business in Heroic ANYTHING, much less a TIMED CoS run. MORON. 535 is the minimum defense for heroics. I don't care if everything he had on was purple... none of it was gonna save his a** with 525 defense.
He ATE CRITS. Not being able to heal a tank that wades into a pile of mobs and eats crits has nothing to do with the healer WHATSOEVER.
Next time you get asked to PUG heal a heroic, ask the tank, "do you have at least 535 defense?" If they answer yes, then you should at least try it and find out if they are a decent tank or not (you say your guildies are good tanks, so you should know one when you see one). If the tank turns out to be good you should have no problems. If he turns out to be an idiot even though he has 535 or higher defense, either try to coach the tank a bit or just gtfo.
Death by bad tanking/bad gearing by the tank is not the healer's responsibility. The tank needs to learn to gear AND learn to tank.
Above all, don't give up on healing because of a bad pug with a terribad tank. If you can heal good tanks with no issues, then you are fine.
Also, don't try a timed CoS heroic run without first running it a few times on heroic without worrying about the timer.
A timed run with a horrible tank with bad gear must have just been a nightmare, but in no way should you blame yourself for that!
If the tank had 525 defense, he had no business in Heroic ANYTHING, much less a TIMED CoS run. MORON. 535 is the minimum defense for heroics. I don't care if everything he had on was purple... none of it was gonna save his a** with 525 defense.
He ATE CRITS. Not being able to heal a tank that wades into a pile of mobs and eats crits has nothing to do with the healer WHATSOEVER.
Next time you get asked to PUG heal a heroic, ask the tank, "do you have at least 535 defense?" If they answer yes, then you should at least try it and find out if they are a decent tank or not (you say your guildies are good tanks, so you should know one when you see one). If the tank turns out to be good you should have no problems. If he turns out to be an idiot even though he has 535 or higher defense, either try to coach the tank a bit or just gtfo.
Death by bad tanking/bad gearing by the tank is not the healer's responsibility. The tank needs to learn to gear AND learn to tank.
Above all, don't give up on healing because of a bad pug with a terribad tank. If you can heal good tanks with no issues, then you are fine.
Also, don't try a timed CoS heroic run without first running it a few times on heroic without worrying about the timer.
A timed run with a horrible tank with bad gear must have just been a nightmare, but in no way should you blame yourself for that!
You can heal for me any time : ) That tank sucked. 535 is the absolute min for heroics. Don't show up if you don't have it. 535 is easy to get. Doesn't mean your ready to try the timer. So I"m sure you did just fine and the group sucked.
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