Greetings,
I am a blood spec DPS DK, trying to maximize my DPS.
Initially I was going with heavy crit, but as I get "better"
gear it seems I am trading crit for strength and stamina.
I don't care much about defense, dodge, parry, etc.(should I?)
I'm not sure how important expertise or haste is.
At this point I have no interest in tanking as a DK.
Any info would be appreciated.
Edited, Dec 30th 2008 11:26am by DarkBeer
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Maximize DPS
Maximize DPSFollow
Link your armory or tell us your character and server names.
Scholar
29 posts
I am in the same position, trying to maximize DPS, though as Frost specced, and have the same question. I much prefer the burst DPS we offer, so I am trying to keep my crit rate high. The issue I'm having, like the OP, is as I'm questing, I'm coming across more +armor penetration, +haste, or +hit gear that is combined with some +crit, and more likely will lower my crit rating, but still be an improvement, due to the increased chance to penetrate armor, hit, or hit faster (by decreasing cooldowns through improved haste).
So is it better to keep things balanced (DPS oriented), or go for a focused boost? I'm trying to get a set of +penetration now (while still keeping crit rating around 20%, then wear it for a while and compare stats.
My DK is Hareblade (lvl 73), on Turalyon (haven't figured out how to link it here yet).
So is it better to keep things balanced (DPS oriented), or go for a focused boost? I'm trying to get a set of +penetration now (while still keeping crit rating around 20%, then wear it for a while and compare stats.
My DK is Hareblade (lvl 73), on Turalyon (haven't figured out how to link it here yet).
From my point of view, the order in which u want stats as frost dk is:
HIT > Crit/agi > AP/str > stam
Im not really sure what Expertise rating does nowadays, meh
Anyway, there is a reason i dont state haste or armor penetration...
Haste is not somehting u should aim for, global cooldowns and refresh ratings on glyph and runepower generation, mean that there is a limit to how much use haste has... Currently nearly full epixmy damage is build up by 80% skills and 20 melee hits... so, haste is fine.. if u cant get other stats imo :P
Armor penetration is a pvp stat, end of discussion, it wont add to weapon damage, wont make u hit or crit, just change the damage u get reduced.. pvp stat =/= Frost dps :P
As for the order:
you have to HIT to do damage, so hitcap is required :P
if you crit u do more damage.. way more, also melee crits make u trigger killer machine, so just pure win
You increase your damage allong the way, so tr and AP are good to get, before stamina, whihc means that if u cant get hit or agi/crit, u allways go for Str and AP :)
just my 2 cents :P
Edited, Dec 31st 2008 5:59pm by Chamassa
HIT > Crit/agi > AP/str > stam
Im not really sure what Expertise rating does nowadays, meh
Anyway, there is a reason i dont state haste or armor penetration...
Haste is not somehting u should aim for, global cooldowns and refresh ratings on glyph and runepower generation, mean that there is a limit to how much use haste has... Currently nearly full epixmy damage is build up by 80% skills and 20 melee hits... so, haste is fine.. if u cant get other stats imo :P
Armor penetration is a pvp stat, end of discussion, it wont add to weapon damage, wont make u hit or crit, just change the damage u get reduced.. pvp stat =/= Frost dps :P
As for the order:
you have to HIT to do damage, so hitcap is required :P
if you crit u do more damage.. way more, also melee crits make u trigger killer machine, so just pure win
You increase your damage allong the way, so tr and AP are good to get, before stamina, whihc means that if u cant get hit or agi/crit, u allways go for Str and AP :)
just my 2 cents :P
Edited, Dec 31st 2008 5:59pm by Chamassa
It depends on your build.
1st, agi is NOT a stat you want, ever. it doesn't do enough.
With regards to AP and STR, always take STR over AP. there are more talents that boost str than AP.
In general though,
dual wield builds require minimum special hit rating (9% i think for bosses), plus a high amount of crit and a moderate amount of AP. DW builds rely on killing machine procs for their damage.
For 2h builds, it really depends. blood tends to go more towards straight AP+STR, while unholy and frost tend to need a little more crit in them to get their bang. Personally I use AP trinkets for all DK 2h builds (the 610AP one is VERY nice, especially before a gargoyle activation).
Expertise, that reduces dodge and parry. As a DPS you should be behind the enemy, so it will only reduce dodge (since mobs can only parry from the front). Its not a bad stat to get if it comes on something, it's not worth as much as hit (its similar to adding hit when you are over the special attack cap, which you only do as DW), but its still significant because a hit is a hit.
Haste and ArP are 'tertiary stats'. You only take them if thats whats available. You generally only want ArP for blood builds, and haste for dw builds, not that they are bad or anything but we get more dps boosts from other stats.
1st, agi is NOT a stat you want, ever. it doesn't do enough.
With regards to AP and STR, always take STR over AP. there are more talents that boost str than AP.
In general though,
dual wield builds require minimum special hit rating (9% i think for bosses), plus a high amount of crit and a moderate amount of AP. DW builds rely on killing machine procs for their damage.
For 2h builds, it really depends. blood tends to go more towards straight AP+STR, while unholy and frost tend to need a little more crit in them to get their bang. Personally I use AP trinkets for all DK 2h builds (the 610AP one is VERY nice, especially before a gargoyle activation).
Expertise, that reduces dodge and parry. As a DPS you should be behind the enemy, so it will only reduce dodge (since mobs can only parry from the front). Its not a bad stat to get if it comes on something, it's not worth as much as hit (its similar to adding hit when you are over the special attack cap, which you only do as DW), but its still significant because a hit is a hit.
Haste and ArP are 'tertiary stats'. You only take them if thats whats available. You generally only want ArP for blood builds, and haste for dw builds, not that they are bad or anything but we get more dps boosts from other stats.
Chamassa wrote:
From my point of view, the order in which u want stats as frost dk is:
HIT > Crit/agi > AP/str > stam
HIT > Crit/agi > AP/str > stam
No, absolutely not.
Hit/expertise are always the highest prioritized until you're capped in both.
After that Str is obviously the next highest prioritized as it effects ALL of your damage (including diseases). Crit only affects all of your damage if you have Wandering Plague.
Chamassa wrote:
Armor penetration is a pvp stat, end of discussion, it wont add to weapon damage, wont make u hit or crit, just change the damage u get reduced.. pvp stat =/= Frost dps :P
ArP is not a pvp stat. It's a melee stat.
Here's a rough value estimate of stats:
Notice haste and ArP are the lowest. That doesn't mean they're pvp or bad stats. It just means that the DK class doesn't gain much from them.
Stat (rating) Unholy Blood Frost 1 AP 1.0000 1.0000 1.0000 1STR 2.4847 2.5570 2.3650 1HIT 2.4748 2.6609 2.4046 1APR 0.5447 1.0456 0.7628 1EXP 1.3914 1.7023 1.2453 1CRT 1.1240 1.1453 1.1894 1HASTE 0.6214 0.5640 0.4978 1DPS (wpn) 7.5670 8.9665 10.3610 Spec 17/0/54 51/13/7 17/54/0
Remember these are rough estimates and should be taken into consideration when looking at upgrades, but don't use them as a hard rule.
@ Theo
I dare to differ, I tried some STr gear and some crit gear, and from what i played with, crit is a very important stat to get towards or past 30% ASAP (atleast as frost), im atm on the edge, 29,8-ish unbuffed
@EnthalpyTheBurninator
While gearing, i found out that agi/AP gear can be way more powerfull than str/crit/(random haste or ArP) gear, also, agi/AP gear tends to add more crit than ur average str/crit/stam gear, cause plate gets to much stam :P
Again, this is all my experience... with MY playstyle, 30% crit is great, AP is a stat that comes with crit up to that point :P
I dare to differ, I tried some STr gear and some crit gear, and from what i played with, crit is a very important stat to get towards or past 30% ASAP (atleast as frost), im atm on the edge, 29,8-ish unbuffed
@EnthalpyTheBurninator
While gearing, i found out that agi/AP gear can be way more powerfull than str/crit/(random haste or ArP) gear, also, agi/AP gear tends to add more crit than ur average str/crit/stam gear, cause plate gets to much stam :P
Again, this is all my experience... with MY playstyle, 30% crit is great, AP is a stat that comes with crit up to that point :P
Chamassa wrote:
@ Theo
I dare to differ, I tried some STr gear and some crit gear, and from what i played with, crit is a very important stat to get towards or past 30% ASAP (atleast as frost), im atm on the edge, 29,8-ish unbuffed
@EnthalpyTheBurninator
While gearing, i found out that agi/AP gear can be way more powerfull than str/crit/(random haste or ArP) gear, also, agi/AP gear tends to add more crit than ur average str/crit/stam gear, cause plate gets to much stam :P
Again, this is all my experience... with MY playstyle, 30% crit is great, AP is a stat that comes with crit up to that point :P
I dare to differ, I tried some STr gear and some crit gear, and from what i played with, crit is a very important stat to get towards or past 30% ASAP (atleast as frost), im atm on the edge, 29,8-ish unbuffed
@EnthalpyTheBurninator
While gearing, i found out that agi/AP gear can be way more powerfull than str/crit/(random haste or ArP) gear, also, agi/AP gear tends to add more crit than ur average str/crit/stam gear, cause plate gets to much stam :P
Again, this is all my experience... with MY playstyle, 30% crit is great, AP is a stat that comes with crit up to that point :P
Link your toon.
Quote:
HIT > Crit/agi > AP/str > stam
When did this rumor get started? =)
Seriously though and not to flame, but your "style" isn't a factor when you're looking at the math behind min/maxing for PvE. There are certain statistical realities that, so far, prove the value of each stat within the structure of an optimized build. MentalFrog was good enough to post one of the analysis' outcomes which showed Hit/Str/Exp to be, point-for-point the best itemization investments we have available for PvE (by "PvE" I mean raiding/instancing, not soloing or PvP). And, honestly, without WWS parses or some other proof of your above statement, it's hard for those of us interested in min/maxing to take it too seriously. Believe me, if Agi were somehow better than Str I'd be cool with it (at least it would make certain gear choices easier). But until I see concrete proof....
I'll add to the above that if you're not min/maxing or in a progression raid, then the details of theorycraft are not as important. Casual players don't need to sweat each point of whatever stat the same way progression or arena players do. So take this conversation with that grain of salt.
Cheers.
Edit: Here's a link to start with for those interested in min/maxing for PvE
Edited, Dec 31st 2008 8:38pm by TherionSaysWhat
I've also noticed that the higher I levelled, the crappier the stats on Plate Armour got. I see tons of +Spellpower and +Mana Regen and very little Crit/STR stuff. I had my Crit as high as 25% at one time (I was amusing myself seeing how high I could get it) and now it's down to 9% whilst my stats aren't really much better.
Chamassa wrote:
@ Theo
I dare to differ
I dare to differ
And you'd be wrong, because you've done no math on the subject.
Recent Visitors: 71
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (71)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Maximize DPS
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC