Is the clarion call of a fail holy paladin stuck with a pre-3.0 single target mindset.
This is not BC, we have Beacon, we have a new itemization thanks to Sacred Shield and Divine plea making Mp5 much less desirable. Encounters have been designed to make FoL spam less workable.
Beacon actually means that given the correct situation you can raid heal like a **** while providing full on heal support to a tank. More importantly it means you can cover a MT and OT with heals at the same time. This is one of the most underused spells by most stuck in the past pallies in game. It trivializes content from Patchwerk to Malygos and if you hope to have any success on two or more drakes going down on Sartharion you better learn when and where to use this spell or else no matter how strong you were in the past when we were single target healers you are now a relic and only getting 50% out of your classes potential and don't deserve a spot in a raid.
Crit and Holy Shock = Sex. An instant cast spell that opens an instant cast spell with t7 2 piece that compliments it. Hrmmm this just might be powerful. You mean I can do 10k clutch healing before most people are finished a cast~! Forget about might be, and lets just say it is fricking ridiculous in PvE.
Right now my main focus is the tank and it always will be, however as I learn the fights and adapt my new abilities to them to maximize my potential I have pulled ahead of every paladin not only in my guild but in every single other top end raiding guild in my server. Where most top end pallies are now considered filler in a raids healing unit I am consistently pushing Druids and CoH priests in heals while still maintaining a focus on the tank and the traditional pally role while also playing a strong roll in healing off tanks in multiple tank situations or providing support on splash damage fights or just being able to clutch heal random damage with instant heals. That along with proper mana conservation (Divine Plea on cooldown, knowing when to bust out Divine. The basic rule still stands 90% of healing is positioning and being able to know the fight well enough to anticipate damage. However breaking the mold and learning to handle the same job in a new way is what a lot of old tired and broken pallies (at least on my server not sure about yours) need to start doing before they nerf themselves by lacking skill.
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Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Agreed. I'm also outhealing lots of priests, but I'm not 100% sure why. I don't know enough about priest healing to make any real comments.
But yes - single target healing is a thing of the past. FoL spam is a thing of the past. And I LOVE IT!!!! :)
But yes - single target healing is a thing of the past. FoL spam is a thing of the past. And I LOVE IT!!!! :)
I got used to your posts a couple of years back and I think this is another good post by you. I think there are a lot of paladin healers who just haven't grasped the point you're making yet. In fact I've tanked for paladins who seem to think with the very mindset you're lambasting.
Could I just say one thing as an aside, if... well.. umm you know you could actually make a post once in a while without informing us all how uber and excellent you are and how much you're so much better you are than x,y or z we might focus more on the central point you've raised rather than your brilliance, which of course we could pick up by inference rather than you ramming it down our throats :)
Absolutely no offence intended, you're one of the few posters who bring a smile to my face when I read one of your posts, just though I'd say though :P
Edited, Dec 26th 2008 10:28pm by Ermpriest
Could I just say one thing as an aside, if... well.. umm you know you could actually make a post once in a while without informing us all how uber and excellent you are and how much you're so much better you are than x,y or z we might focus more on the central point you've raised rather than your brilliance, which of course we could pick up by inference rather than you ramming it down our throats :)
Absolutely no offence intended, you're one of the few posters who bring a smile to my face when I read one of your posts, just though I'd say though :P
Edited, Dec 26th 2008 10:28pm by Ermpriest
Is this mindset more geared towards raiding, or just pally healing as a whole?
I've only raided Naxx twice atm, 2nd on heals to a well geared druid, but have been doing a lot of heroics, and I find that I'm still doing a decent amount of FoL spam.
Beacon/shield the tank at pull, Judge Light, FoL as needed until a spike/AoE hits, then Shock the tank and HL a DPS, resume FoL as HP usually has stabilized.
Outside of just knowing the encounters better, how do you approach/heal a pull differently?
I've only raided Naxx twice atm, 2nd on heals to a well geared druid, but have been doing a lot of heroics, and I find that I'm still doing a decent amount of FoL spam.
Beacon/shield the tank at pull, Judge Light, FoL as needed until a spike/AoE hits, then Shock the tank and HL a DPS, resume FoL as HP usually has stabilized.
Outside of just knowing the encounters better, how do you approach/heal a pull differently?
Raiding but even in heroics settings you need to be using these new tools. Beacon on a number of heroic boss encounters is going to turn a fight that seems impossible into easy trash. Holyshock use should be in your rotation as well, if a tank spike you get an instant 4-6k heal with a chance to make next heal virtually instant.
It gets a little more indepth such as fights that pose somewhat of a challenge such as Sartharion with more than one drake up. You can Main Heal your target while healing another tank. 90% of your mana is going to be burnt in that short window you have to mop up the drakes. So once again I have it timed out beacon use, proactive Divine Plea use, Divine Illumination when bomb healing is necessary, Divine Touch + Heal, Mana Pot, and sacred shield minimal FoL use for mana regen. Where most 3 drake guilds a pally is holding up the bottom of the meters on that fight I am pushing our CoH priests or the druids rollings HoT's on the tanks. I am literally tripling the healing of the other paladins because I realize that once we get the drakes down the fight is in the bag so I come out of drake phase using everything i have and with about 1k mana. Which is just enough for me to come out of it with a Sacred Shield and FoL spam which is more than enough to finish the fight while also regenning mana from Divine Plea.
It gets a little more indepth such as fights that pose somewhat of a challenge such as Sartharion with more than one drake up. You can Main Heal your target while healing another tank. 90% of your mana is going to be burnt in that short window you have to mop up the drakes. So once again I have it timed out beacon use, proactive Divine Plea use, Divine Illumination when bomb healing is necessary, Divine Touch + Heal, Mana Pot, and sacred shield minimal FoL use for mana regen. Where most 3 drake guilds a pally is holding up the bottom of the meters on that fight I am pushing our CoH priests or the druids rollings HoT's on the tanks. I am literally tripling the healing of the other paladins because I realize that once we get the drakes down the fight is in the bag so I come out of drake phase using everything i have and with about 1k mana. Which is just enough for me to come out of it with a Sacred Shield and FoL spam which is more than enough to finish the fight while also regenning mana from Divine Plea.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
bodhisattva wrote:
I have pulled ahead of every paladin not only in my guild but in every single other top end raiding guild in my server.
Yay you. I suppose you want a medal or something.
Maara - FoL is still used quite a bit. It's just not used 95% of the time anymore. It probably still accounts for 40-50% of my healing. Especially with the Sacred Shield synergy.
There are just so many other spells to work with (like bod mentioned). So you're not just spamming FoL. You also sealing/judging/Sacred Shielding/Holy Shocking/Divine Plea...ing, on top of the other stuff we used to do.
There are just so many other spells to work with (like bod mentioned). So you're not just spamming FoL. You also sealing/judging/Sacred Shielding/Holy Shocking/Divine Plea...ing, on top of the other stuff we used to do.
I'm getting so bored of ret. This post is really making me consider re-rolling to a healing role.
When my guild started raiding naxx, we had three healers at lvl 80. All were paladins. And we raid healed every fight our tanks and dps could handle. The pally that did mostly FoL spam kept people up, but only did about 25% of the healing.
In a raid environment, Bacon of Light is good. Glyph of Holy Light is incredible. The real place that Bacon shines is in heroics and 5-mans, where you are the only one responsible for keeping up the dps, and the tank doesn't need as many heals. That way you can Bacon the tank and heal the rest of the group, and the bacon heals will keep the tank up. In most raids the tank takes a lot more damage than the rest of the raid, so the amount of health given by Bacon isn't always enough. Personally, I put it on the one taking the second most amount of damage in any given fight. Usually its the offtank, sometimes its another holy pally if there is a lot of aoe. Or I just throw it on a ret pally if we have one.
One thing I've noticed, is that the fight has a HUGE effect on our play style. Once I've learned a fight, there are tricks and different things I can do to make it a cakewalk. The ethereal in heroic VH is a good example. In that fight, bacon the tank, stay mobile, and rely heavily on holy shock. Forget flash of light, even an instant is better used to drop a huge, fast, holy light. Stay ahead of the tank and watch out for LOS. Just one example out of dozens.
In a raid environment, Bacon of Light is good. Glyph of Holy Light is incredible. The real place that Bacon shines is in heroics and 5-mans, where you are the only one responsible for keeping up the dps, and the tank doesn't need as many heals. That way you can Bacon the tank and heal the rest of the group, and the bacon heals will keep the tank up. In most raids the tank takes a lot more damage than the rest of the raid, so the amount of health given by Bacon isn't always enough. Personally, I put it on the one taking the second most amount of damage in any given fight. Usually its the offtank, sometimes its another holy pally if there is a lot of aoe. Or I just throw it on a ret pally if we have one.
One thing I've noticed, is that the fight has a HUGE effect on our play style. Once I've learned a fight, there are tricks and different things I can do to make it a cakewalk. The ethereal in heroic VH is a good example. In that fight, bacon the tank, stay mobile, and rely heavily on holy shock. Forget flash of light, even an instant is better used to drop a huge, fast, holy light. Stay ahead of the tank and watch out for LOS. Just one example out of dozens.
Speaking from a tank perspective: About a week ago I had a Holy Paladin heal for a group of mine in REGULAR HoL (it was the daily and we didn't feel like running it on Heroic) and we wiped 3 times on Loken (I am 80 and the Holy Paladin was also 80). I asked if he was specced Bacon, and he said he was, but he never used it on anyone during the entire dungeon. He also never used Sacred Shield. Then last night I had a different Holy Paladin healing for regular HoL again with 4 80s in the group and a 78 hunter. He used Sacred Shield and Bacon regularly, and no one dropped below 75% health for more than 1 second in the entire dungeon.
If you aren't using the new toys Blizzard gave you (many of which are pretty darn OP) then please go back to raiding Kara and doing BC heroics.
If you aren't using the new toys Blizzard gave you (many of which are pretty darn OP) then please go back to raiding Kara and doing BC heroics.
graspee wrote:
bodhisattva wrote:
I have pulled ahead of every paladin not only in my guild but in every single other top end raiding guild in my server.
Yay you. I suppose you want a medal or something.
I think that is his way of pointing out that it can be done. (Oh, and pointing out how great he is simultaneously).
What I got out of his posts in this thread are that any Holy Paladins that are complaining that they cannot compete with Holy Priests, Resto Druids, and Resto Shaman probably need to learn to use their talents/skills to maximum effect.
Quote:
What I got out of his posts in this thread are that any Holy Paladins that are complaining that they cannot compete with Holy Priests, Resto Druids, and Resto Shaman probably need to learn to use their talents/skills to maximum effect.
Have to agree there. I've not been very active the last few weeks so I haven't done much raiding. However, I have logged on to do some late night heroics/10 mans and my gear is at a respectable level at the moment although I could use a little more int.
My guild has recruited a new holy pala recently and one of the officers had said she was the best healer he had ever seen.... So, joined the 25man naxx last night to see how I matched up against this new pala and the rest of the guild healers.
First boss was 4 horsemen, the other pala and I were assigned one of the caster tanks each. Rest of the healers (9 in total) were on the other two tanks and the raid. The two of us topped the charts in that encounter and we were neck and neck on that too (0.2% difference between us).
The second fight we went to was Patchwerk. We had healers assigned to the MT and 2 hateful strike tanks. I was on one of the latter. What shocked me was the amount of hps I got. I hit 3600hps in that fight, did a total of over 1 million healing which was double the priest in second place. The other pala was close behind him in 3rd place.
What I did was beacon the MT and start loading up the big heals and cancel casting. Holy Shocking in a clinch (with divine favour) and full on HL spam during the enrage. I was also throwing out shield liberally when able, salving the dps and judging wisdom.
Part of the reason I did so well in this particular fight is that I've stacked crit and haste (29% crit, 13% haste) which together with the judgementof the pure and various buffs I was casting HL at about 2.1 secs. Checking my recount data, I was averaging a shade over 40% on my HL crits. This really is a pala fight so I was wondering why this other pala wasn't keeping up? Checked out her armory and saw a few things. She had very little crit (about 21% holy) and almost no haste, talent wise she had a strange build (no ret talents) looked like a semi pvp build.
In short, from my limited raiding experience in wrath, I'd say that if a pala is geared well, specced well and played well then they can match or exceed any other class of healer. We did another 3 bosses that run and I topped meters on every boss bar one (grobulous (sp.))
EDIT: Just to provide a contrast, there were another 2 holy palas on that run (4 in total). I tripled the healing done on one of them for the entire run and had almost double the other. Fail?
Edited, Dec 31st 2008 4:05am by bawbaag
bawbaag wrote:
Just to provide a contrast, there were another 2 holy palas on that run (4 in total). I tripled the healing done on one of them for the entire run and had almost double the other. Fail?
Hmm. Earlier it was stated that the raid had 9 healers. With you and your "competition" doing a lot of tank duty, that probably means that these two were in with the raid healers for at least some, if not most, of the content. Competing against smart heals and HOTs in a raid that sounds like it went pretty successfully (no DPS standing stupidly in the fire/poison/void/whatever), is it possible that they were so low because there just wasn't enough damage to go around?
Quote:
Hmm. Earlier it was stated that the raid had 9 healers. With you and your "competition" doing a lot of tank duty, that probably means that these two were in with the raid healers for at least some, if not most, of the content. Competing against smart heals and HOTs in a raid that sounds like it went pretty successfully (no DPS standing stupidly in the fire/poison/void/whatever), is it possible that they were so low because there just wasn't enough damage to go around?
This probably had some impact but I would argue that my mana was pushed to the limit on all the boss fights as my mana pool is a tad low (16.5k unbuffed). Especially on the Patchwerk fight, there was plenty damage to go around. The only boss where the other palas were not exclusively tank healing was on 4 horsemen. I also tend to slack off on the healing a lot on trash and take care of cleansing, shielding, judging mobs so I've taken that into account.
This isn't about how uber I think I am though, I'm just saying that when you have 4 of the same class doing more or less the same job there shouldn't be that big a difference.
Just thought I'd use this thread to post yesterday's 25-naxx Patchwerk fail..
4800 actual HPS, more than double the next guy, who wasn't even the other holy pally. Even with that, 50.8% of my attempted healing was overheals, so.. nearly 10k attempted healing per second. And the tanks still died every single attempt until I just bubble-hearthed.
4800 actual HPS, more than double the next guy, who wasn't even the other holy pally. Even with that, 50.8% of my attempted healing was overheals, so.. nearly 10k attempted healing per second. And the tanks still died every single attempt until I just bubble-hearthed.
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