Lethality and Ambush..?Follow

As far as I can tell, false. I misunderstood the talent tooltip myself, thinking this would be boosting my Eviscerates nicely. Then someone tapped me on the shoulder and specified that the combo moves in question actually referred to moves that gave combo points, not the ones that spent the combo points. Haven't done the testing myself, since I can't be ***** to spend money on respeccing for that when I'm happy with my current specc.

What!? That's the lamest sh*t on the planet. Why on my green earth would Blizzard tease Rogues like that? What a waste of 5 points then. *Goes back and re-thinks half her build*


Easy enough to fix: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhxcoZZebfbhGddAzAbRt

Edited, Dec 24th 2008 9:09pm by LiptonSoup

Sinister Strike, Mutilate, Backstab, Shiv(?) and Gouge, if I'm right.

It's funny, they actually changed the wording with WOTLK and managed to make it even more unclear. Combo moves is extremely misleading as it would lead one to think "all moves that have something to do with [ie generate/use] combo points".

Edit: Oh, possibly Riposte, but I'm pretty unsure there.

Edited, Dec 25th 2008 4:27am by Mozared

Isn't Ambush an opener, though?

I actually heard that Ambush does benefit from lethality when you use shadow dance, true/false?

Off the main topic, but i tried my hand at shadowstep ambush build. I did a 9k ambish followed by a 6k eviscerate. Its pretty neat, but i starve energy in the build most of the time, and backstab still sucks.

My play style is mutilate, i lvld it from 0-68 and from 70-80. This of course was pre patch and post, but being a mutilate rogue makes me happy. I can PvP in the PVE spec and do pretty decent, and in PVE i can top my groups dps most of the time.

Also, I love HfB. Im virtually un-DoTable if CoS is ready which makes fighting other rogues and warriors a little less hassle.

Back on the Main Topic. That does Blow that Ambush doesnt work with Lethality. It feels it does since my non crit Ambushes hit for 3-4k while my crit ones hit for 9k. Ahwell, I guess dealing a crit for 12k+ with no buffs but just spec induced would be OP. No one else can do an instant kill move ,so its understandable to a degree.

This is misleading... Obviously you will destroy DKs specced and geared for levelling, because they don't have the resil or hp to outlast you. Maybe if you were to ding 80 and try some PvP, you might realize that highly successful Ambush players are mostly a pipe dream and the only people you will be able to crit over 7k on are 0 resil cloth/leather.

No, I like using ambush, but in most cases cheap shot and/or garrote is better. Ambush is great for SHD spec, but it currently isn't one of the top specs, through no fault of Ambush. It's a strong skill and a good opener for bursting people before their healer gets NS or HoP off, but facing heavily armored classes makes it less worth the wasted 4 seconds where you could've CSed.

Well, as Mutilate, I don't use Ambush unless Cold Blood is up. As ShS, I have a 76% crit rate including Imp. Ambush.

Agreed. I may be one of the few that uses Ambush at times (but then my specc is weird and accomodates both Muti and Imp Ambush) but I never ever use Cold Blood on an Ambush. It's the greatest waste you can do, when instead you can save it for the Eviscerates that's coming later on.

The thing is, Mutilate comes in two hits; a main-hand and an off-hand hit. They are both listed seperately. I'm assuming CritLine only registered the Mutilate MH hit. The OH hit is generally equal to/a small bit lower to the MH hand. Which means the full mutilate crit was actually 1500 + (lets say) 1400 = 2900.

The only reason I currently ever have to choose Ambush over Mutilate is if I somehow have a spare Cold Blood or am otherwise sure that there's a good crit chance on it, seeing as with Overkill Ambush costs me 10 less energy than Mutilate.

Idea 1: Your offhand is 1.3 speed, and your MH is 1.8 speed. Ambush gets only the 1.8, but Mut benefits from 1.3 as well, which isn't as good.

Idea 2: Poisons aren't staying up when you use mut.

Idea 3: You are using bad talents and your gear isn't exceptional.

Idea 4: Your offhand's DPS is quite low, and combining that with Idea 1 makes for some really bad Mut.

Idea 5: Since you've wasted points to pick up Serrated Blades, you don't have DWS and that's why your offhand is hitting so terribly, in combination with 4 and 1. This is probably the best reason.

How to fix: Respec like this.
What my rogue was at 70

Pick up a new offhand. If I recall correctly, there are plenty of decent daggers in Borean Tundra, which is where you are levelling based on your current quest gear.

While faster weapons are better DPS raiding, you will only get a few white hits in when killing things while levelling, so it's better just to max your ability damage.

Just my opinion, so take with a side-order of skepticism.

New weapons, start here.

I would have spec'd like this for solo/questing (note, for a PvE realm, for a PvP realm you'd need to move a few points). I ended up going for Initiative (not Prep) but many people swear by Prep for similar builds, so... up to you.

For soloing it's proven to be better to use WP/WP. DP is pointless as mobs die too fast and you won't need Envenom. In groups you'll want IP on the faster of your two weapons and DP on the slower (for use with Envenom). Which hand is which doesn't really matter until end-game but you'll likely not find anything faster than 1.7 until then anyway.

Soloing with 2 1.8 speed weapons is fine. Ideally for raid you would want fast/fast, for PvP slow/slow. But for questing just grab the highest damage weapon you can get. At level cap, re-evaluate.

Cheap Shot, Mutilate, Mutilate, Evis, loot, stealth, next target....

I believe that the WP debuff is counted toward the Mutilate bonus, but that reminds me about some tests I forgot to run.... easy enough to test with Recount, I just never got around to it.

Good luck out there!