Am i right in thinking that because frost offers more slowing, stunning moves than fire, it therefore offers more control?
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Frost Offers More Control Than Fire?Follow
Lobotomize wrote:
Am i right in thinking that because frost offers more slowing, stunning moves than fire, it therefore offers more control?
Frost has always offered more control than Fire, though Arcane has gained some decent control of its own nowadays.
Edited, Dec 23rd 2008 9:00am by Poldaran
Well arcane has slow now, but I wouldn't call it the "control" tree. I would call arcane the bursty tree, fire the dps tree, and frost the control tree.
Cool, so for PvP Arcane/Fire for sustained damage.
Leveling, frost for control?
Leveling, frost for control?
Anobix the Wise wrote:
Well arcane has slow now, but I wouldn't call it the "control" tree. I would call arcane the bursty tree, fire the dps tree, and frost the control tree.
Arcane allows you to have some control over magic based foes(slower cast times), so it has some control frost doesn't offer. Nowhere near the general control of frost, but it has some control.
I tend to think of Arcane as the "mobility tree", offering increased mobility through multiple means(the greatest of which is an instant cast primary nuke), the ability to reduce the speed of those who can attack you while you're mobile(casters/ranged) and the ability to slow the speed of those who would try to catch you(which it shares with frost). I tend to think of frost as a more burst oriented tree with shatter combos and such.
Edited, Dec 23rd 2008 10:40am by Poldaran
Can you outline the numbers you'd hit with arcane in a PvP situation, assume usual buffs and crits?
Here's my understanding (caveat: haven't leveled the mage yet in WotLK):
Arcane: Generally best for intro PvE (5 and 10-mans) and for PvP against casters
Frost: Generally best for PvP against non-casters and solid for PvE
Fire/elementalist: Best for high-end boss fights
Basically frost for PvP, fire for raids, arcane before you have mad gear. But they are all pretty interchangeable. Though I wouldn't want to arena as anything other than frost.
Arcane: Generally best for intro PvE (5 and 10-mans) and for PvP against casters
Frost: Generally best for PvP against non-casters and solid for PvE
Fire/elementalist: Best for high-end boss fights
Basically frost for PvP, fire for raids, arcane before you have mad gear. But they are all pretty interchangeable. Though I wouldn't want to arena as anything other than frost.
Cool, thanks for the info guys.
Quote:
Can you outline the numbers you'd hit with arcane in a PvP situation, assume usual buffs and crits?
9-10k Pom Pyro Crit > 4-6k Arcane Barrage Crit > 2-4k Fire Blast Crit :D
Idk why but i seem to crit the highest on paladins, but generally most classes, with the exception of mages and death knight's, get 2 shotted, or are very low hp after the pom pyro > arcane barrage crits.
the much touted control of frost is something that happens as a by-product of frostbolt spam. with a 2.5 second cast time, you will have absolutely no control if you must be mobile without wasting your valuable frost novas. in pvp, managing your frost cooldowns is the only way to win, and by no means guaranteed even if you're facing a snare-vulnerable class (shamans and sometimes DKs). classes with a means to remove magical effects from themselves, or who can become invulnerable to your movement impairing effects (paladins) you will be absolutely useless as anything but a decoy.
the requirement that deep freeze target something that's already frozen makes it situational like very few abilities in the game. because of cast times, you will mostly miss out on big damage opportunities and instead be restricted to ice lance spam. the game has changed. even with a severely nerfed pushback mechanic, mages cannot afford to stand still to cast anything.
arcane has almighty single-target control via the instant-cast slow, PoM and arcane barrage (another instant, but it can be a main nuke with its 3 second cooldown). because you can choose when to unleash your arcane power in combination with missiles and clearcast, arcane has just as much on-demand burst as frost. if not more. i might say more because, unlike with freeze effects, the opportunities to use your burst depend on your own timing of the situation, not merely where you're forced to use a nova just to gain space.
and you can't just trinket out of an arcane power...
the requirement that deep freeze target something that's already frozen makes it situational like very few abilities in the game. because of cast times, you will mostly miss out on big damage opportunities and instead be restricted to ice lance spam. the game has changed. even with a severely nerfed pushback mechanic, mages cannot afford to stand still to cast anything.
arcane has almighty single-target control via the instant-cast slow, PoM and arcane barrage (another instant, but it can be a main nuke with its 3 second cooldown). because you can choose when to unleash your arcane power in combination with missiles and clearcast, arcane has just as much on-demand burst as frost. if not more. i might say more because, unlike with freeze effects, the opportunities to use your burst depend on your own timing of the situation, not merely where you're forced to use a nova just to gain space.
and you can't just trinket out of an arcane power...
Quote:
9-10k Pom Pyro Crit > 4-6k Arcane Barrage Crit > 2-4k Fire Blast Crit :D
Just what i wanted to hear. Thanks.
Quote:
the much touted control of frost is something that happens as a by-product of frostbolt spam. with a 2.5 second cast time, you will have absolutely no control if you must be mobile without wasting your valuable frost novas. in pvp, managing your frost cooldowns is the only way to win, and by no means guaranteed even if you're facing a snare-vulnerable class (shamans and sometimes DKs). classes with a means to remove magical effects from themselves, or who can become invulnerable to your movement impairing effects (paladins) you will be absolutely useless as anything but a decoy.
the requirement that deep freeze target something that's already frozen makes it situational like very few abilities in the game. because of cast times, you will mostly miss out on big damage opportunities and instead be restricted to ice lance spam. the game has changed. even with a severely nerfed pushback mechanic, mages cannot afford to stand still to cast anything.
arcane has almighty single-target control via the instant-cast slow, PoM and arcane barrage (another instant, but it can be a main nuke with its 3 second cooldown). because you can choose when to unleash your arcane power in combination with missiles and clearcast, arcane has just as much on-demand burst as frost. if not more. i might say more because, unlike with freeze effects, the opportunities to use your burst depend on your own timing of the situation, not merely where you're forced to use a nova just to gain space.
and you can't just trinket out of an arcane power...
the requirement that deep freeze target something that's already frozen makes it situational like very few abilities in the game. because of cast times, you will mostly miss out on big damage opportunities and instead be restricted to ice lance spam. the game has changed. even with a severely nerfed pushback mechanic, mages cannot afford to stand still to cast anything.
arcane has almighty single-target control via the instant-cast slow, PoM and arcane barrage (another instant, but it can be a main nuke with its 3 second cooldown). because you can choose when to unleash your arcane power in combination with missiles and clearcast, arcane has just as much on-demand burst as frost. if not more. i might say more because, unlike with freeze effects, the opportunities to use your burst depend on your own timing of the situation, not merely where you're forced to use a nova just to gain space.
and you can't just trinket out of an arcane power...
Upon reading this post i conclude your fire spec?
Edited, Dec 25th 2008 9:18am by Lobotomize
I would guess Arcane.
no. i'm frost. i hate fire, and like to AOE.
Quote:
I would guess Arcane.
He mentioned all but fire, suggesting he has nothing negative to say about it. Just made me think he used it.
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