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judgement of the just/touched by the lightFollow

#1 Dec 20 2008 at 1:15 AM Rating: Decent
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210 posts
I'm working on my tank build and can't really see the point of judgement of the just and touched by the light. From what I've read our spell power isn't as big of a deal as it used to be and that's why a lot of pally tanks are looking for good warrior tank weapons and enchanting with +strength, so then why would we want a spell that gives us more spell power and critical heal power? Plus reducing melee attack speed seems almost as if we would be kind of slowing down our threat producer since we gain threat through getting hit still right? Now I can kind of see why having a boost to critical heals would help with gaining a little aggro or helping a healer but do a lot of tanks use it?

My other question would be about blessing of kings. It would seem to me that pretty much any other pally would pick that talent up since it's in the first tier, so is there any point in putting points in either blessing of kings, or improved blessing of kings?
#2 Dec 20 2008 at 5:09 AM Rating: Good
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2,183 posts
One of the reasons spell power isn't necessary anymore is because of Touched by the Light. We don't need to gear for it because this talent gives us all the spell power we need. The healing part isn't a big deal though. It's only there as a "just in case" talent. It's for solo play and rare circumstances in which you need to throw a heal or 2.

Judgements of the Just is also a must grab imo. Losie could explain it better than I can (and I believe already has, maybe more than once), but slowing down an enemy's attack speed is a good thing: Thunderclap anyone? It's not like you're stopping the mob from hitting you at all, just making them hit you less often, and it only affects your Judgement target. So in an AOE situation, one mob hitting less often isn't going to hurt much, and single encounters (read bosses/hard hitters) the fewer strikes on you will go a long way in keeping you alive. Remember the goal of the tank is to minimize the damage the group takes, and that includes themselves.

Blessing of Kings: if you're not going to put the full 5 points into it, don't put any into it. And I just don't see how you can justify the 5 points it takes as Prot given any of the talents you'll have to not take in order to take Kings. Leave it to the Rets (and PvP specced Holys).

EDIT: for typo.

Edited, Dec 20th 2008 5:10am by Maulgak
#3 Dec 26 2008 at 5:00 PM Rating: Good
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135 posts
The big reason for Touched by the Light is all of our spells Judgement of xxx has coefficients for both Attack Power and Spell Power. With just one rather then both you are limiting the amount of threat as a tankadin you can do. For just 3 talent points you do not have to waste any budget points in your gear on spell power, just like retribution talent Sheath of Light.

Basically with Touched by the Light and Sheath of Light talents there is just now Plate tanking/mitigation gear and plate dps gear that can be used by Death Knights, Paladins and Warriors. Spell power Plate is still only looked for mainly by holy paladin instead of paladins.




#4 Dec 30 2008 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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1,131 posts
All of our spells still have a big coefficient from Spellpower. Touched by the Light is what GIVES you spellpower. Tired of that 41 dps mace with 300 spellpower on it and a spellpower enchant? GET RID OF IT! Now you can have 500+ spellpower just from a talent that takes 3 points!

Spellpower is STILL an absolute necessity, you just don't need to gear/enchant for it anymore.

If you ever do any sort of boss fight (dungeon, heroic, or raid) Judgements of the Just is simply a must. Fewer incoming attacks = less damage = less stress on your healer. Very worthy of a few points.

Kings is an all-or-nothing deal. Either put 0 points into it or put all 5 into it. If you roll with a Ret Pally for dungeons/raids, make sure he has it and then you can put the 5 points elsewhere. If you are typically the only Paladin in your group, you may want to spec for it since no one else will be providing it.

I worked out a spec that I like that allows me to put 5 points into Kings, so that is what I currently do. If my guild gets a reliable Ret who runs with me on a regular basis, I will respec out of Kings and put those 5 points into talents that will help to generate more TPS.

Edited, Dec 30th 2008 3:58pm by jeromesimina
#5 Dec 30 2008 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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1,004 posts
Touched by the Light:

The reason that we don't want nor need Spell Power anymore is because Touched by the Light gives us all that we need, allowing us to stack Attack Power (or more specifically, Strength -- which is how we get Attack Power and some Block Value). Don't think of this talent as a threat booster, think of it as the ability that ALLOWS you to stay on par for threat with the other classes. In a sense, think of it as a permanent "Defensive Stance". Warriors, DKs, and Druids that aren't TOTALLY specced to tank have a HUGE advantage as tanks over us because Righteous Fury alone just doesn't measure up to Defensive Stance/Frost Presence/Dire Bear Form. We only reach parity with the other tanking classes (for late-game stuff) when we properly spec to tank. You might be able to tank through a level 80 instance or POSSIBLY some heroics with an excellent group as Ret -- but you'd be at a huge disadvantage not only compared to a tank-specced tank, but compared to a DPS specced Warrior/DK/Druid as well. Touched by the Light is absolutly core to Paladin tanking.

From my guide, which is currently the first thread on this forum and a stickie:
 
Avenger's Shield        -- 07% SP, 07% AP   
Consecration            -- 04% SP, 04% AP   
Exorcism                -- 15% SP, 15% AP  
Hammer of the Righteous -- 4xDPS + 29% AP  
Holy Wrath              -- 07% SP, 07% AP  
Judgement               -- 22% SP, 07% AP  
SoV/SoC                 -- 08% SP, 15% AP each tick per stack

How can you ignore Spell Power when nearly half of your overall spell-augmentation damage is coming from it?

Judgements of the Just:

You always want a 20% slow up on a boss. Always. It's good to have it up on trash too. Now, there's only a couple of fights in the game (bosses) that you can actually say the second/third etc tanks are OFF-tanks. By that I mean, they literally have **** all to do while you're tanking the boss and can stand by you thunderclapping away. How is the Warrior supposed to thunderclap your horseman in 4H? Etc etc etc... You can't rely on someone else to put up a slow on your mob. Every tank has their own job to do, and it's usually not all back/back/back with eachother. Furthermore, our slow is among the CHEAPEST and most effective slows there is. The DK's slow is the only one that even comes close to comparing with the raw resource cost of ours. We are constantly judging anyway, just like a DK constantly has full diseases (where their slow comes from) on their targets. Druids take time to stack their slow on their targets, and it takes rage to do it (mind you, it's rage spent on another attack that they should be doing anyway) -- but the time it takes is a huge detriment. Warriors have the most expensive slow there is for single targets. They'd be able to use their rage MUCH more efficiently if we kept the slow up during the rare occasion that there actually is only one thing to beat on and the tanks have nothing better to do. And you can't rely on DPSers that have the ability to slow attacks -- they shouldn't have to in the first place. We should be. That's why all of the tanks now have this ability.

Kings:

Holy probably should not be taking Kings. They can get much better crit by skipping it, and crit is golden to them. They are gimping themselves in a min/max sense if they do. It is, however, one of the core components of the cookie-cutter Ret build, and so 90% of the Rets you see will likely have taken it. If you know you'll always be running with at least one of these Rets, you might be able to skip it. Yes, Sanctuary is a better first buff (some people debate this, but this is just what I'm presenting to you -- take it or leave it) for tanks to have, especially for you to have. Kings is a VERY powerful second buff, I'd dare say it is almost of equal value in general -- and in some fights it could be of more value. Wisdom is absolutly 100% the most important buff for healers to have by a long-shot. Might is the best (though not such a long-shot) for physical DPS. The only classes that get the most out of Kings are magical DPSers -- Warlocks, Mages, Crit Chickens, Shadow Priests. Still -- Kings is an extremely powerful buff overall, and you should always do whatever you can to make sure that it *IS* available. Especially in Raids, and ESPECIALLY in 10 mans where group composition can be a problem. That much raw power just can't be neglected. Which means, if you can't rely on a Ret for it you should probably consider speccing into it yourself.
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