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Which Aura and Blessing for Ret Pally?Follow
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Which Aura and Blessing should I use for a lvl 42 Ret Pally on a PVE server?
Ret Paladins pretty much use Retribution Aura and Blessing of Might all the way, or at least I did, clear up until Lv78 when I switched over to Prot. There may be some fights (elites) in which you might want a Resistance Aura. I wouldn't even bother with Devotion Aura, I find that at most, it might give you 3-5% damage reduction. And that is only for physical hits taken as far as I know. This is doubly so if you took the talents that increase Retribution Aura damage.
You didn't ask, but most people I talk to, use Seal of Command along with that. To be honest, 2% stats doesn't even come close to +Attack Power that you get from BoM, especially when that value climbs into the 200s when you get into Northrend.
Once you get into the high 40s, and into the 50s, Mana should never become a problem which eliminates the need for Wisdom and Seal of Wisdom. If you are having mana issues in solo PvE, try backing off the Consecrate usage, you will get better XP/hr by constant kills, even if each kill takes 2-3 seconds longer, instead of having to sit down and drink every 4-5 kills.
When I did my Ret Paladin to 78, I didn't use Consecrate, ever, unless I had 2+ mobs on me. When you get Divine Storm, it is much of the same until you get Divine Plea. Once you get Divine Plea, it is safe to use Divine Storm on every mob. I still used Consecrate only sparingly, as the mana drain is still much too high.
Edited, Dec 19th 2008 10:21pm by Zariamnk
You didn't ask, but most people I talk to, use Seal of Command along with that. To be honest, 2% stats doesn't even come close to +Attack Power that you get from BoM, especially when that value climbs into the 200s when you get into Northrend.
Once you get into the high 40s, and into the 50s, Mana should never become a problem which eliminates the need for Wisdom and Seal of Wisdom. If you are having mana issues in solo PvE, try backing off the Consecrate usage, you will get better XP/hr by constant kills, even if each kill takes 2-3 seconds longer, instead of having to sit down and drink every 4-5 kills.
When I did my Ret Paladin to 78, I didn't use Consecrate, ever, unless I had 2+ mobs on me. When you get Divine Storm, it is much of the same until you get Divine Plea. Once you get Divine Plea, it is safe to use Divine Storm on every mob. I still used Consecrate only sparingly, as the mana drain is still much too high.
Edited, Dec 19th 2008 10:21pm by Zariamnk
Ret aura gives you a bit more outgoing damage...devotion aura ups your mitigation a bit. Which one you go with is pretty much situational, but most ret pallies will go with ret aura.
Even if you spec into Blessing of Kings, Blessing of Might will give you the biggest bang in terms of increased damage output. For group play, groups sort of expect ret pallies to have Blessing of Kings available...there's generally not enough talent points left over in a prot build to put all 5 points needed into Blessing of Kings to get the full benefit. Nevertheless, you'll still want to buff Might on yourself...there's really no reason not to.
Even if you spec into Blessing of Kings, Blessing of Might will give you the biggest bang in terms of increased damage output. For group play, groups sort of expect ret pallies to have Blessing of Kings available...there's generally not enough talent points left over in a prot build to put all 5 points needed into Blessing of Kings to get the full benefit. Nevertheless, you'll still want to buff Might on yourself...there's really no reason not to.
Quote:
Ret aura gives you a bit more outgoing damage...devotion aura ups your mitigation a bit. Which one you go with is pretty much situational, but most ret pallies will go with ret aura.
Even as Prot, I find that Devotion Aura (I have the improved version, even) doesn't even add 2% to my raw-damage mitigation as per the armor tool-tip. I will use it, but only during instances (usually against bosses, I use Ret on Trash unless we have a Ret Pally in the group; their Ret Aura would be stronger than mine).
For solo grinding as Ret, Devotion Aura is useless. You really won't even notice the difference. If you are solo grinding, mobs commonly melee you for 200, maybe 300 at the most. Devotion Aura is 4-6 damage mitigated per incoming hit.
Meanwhile, Retribution Aura deals 120-180 (depends on your talent placements, and any glyphs, etc you may have) damage to all mobs who strike you in combat. Dual-wield mobs especially feel the pain, I've taken on 3 mobs at once and by the time I melee'd the first two to death, the third was at 30% health from just Ret Aura and a couple Divine Storms.
Don't use Devotion Aura while solo unless it is the ONLY Aura you have (if you're low-level). It makes A'dal (or insert whatever the name of the deity of light is supposed to be in WoW) cry.
I have to disagree about Blessing of Might over Wisdom.
For Aura, Ret of course, but for Blessing, it depends how you play.
Might is great for super fast fights where you do almost no casting and are done in seconds.
When you are fighting 3-5mobs at a time your level(which is how I level) you need Wisdom or you will OOM so fast from healing.
Even at 42 I recommend it so you never have to stop. I have not used a drink or food aside in a dungeon since I made my Retadin.
Might is awesome for killing 1 v 1 but for anything more, or streaming fights(constant links) Wisdom shows more.
I'm not sure, but if you don't have the Art of War and replenishment talents at that level, you REALLY need the MP more.
For Aura, Ret of course, but for Blessing, it depends how you play.
Might is great for super fast fights where you do almost no casting and are done in seconds.
When you are fighting 3-5mobs at a time your level(which is how I level) you need Wisdom or you will OOM so fast from healing.
Even at 42 I recommend it so you never have to stop. I have not used a drink or food aside in a dungeon since I made my Retadin.
Might is awesome for killing 1 v 1 but for anything more, or streaming fights(constant links) Wisdom shows more.
I'm not sure, but if you don't have the Art of War and replenishment talents at that level, you REALLY need the MP more.
As others have said, the damage mitigation from Devotion is minimal as Retadin. It will help you to survive those odd fights where you've already dropped below 50% health, are OOM for whatever reason and still have 3-4 equal level mobs incoming. Still, the chances of running into these situations solo are about .01%, and are likely your own fault to begin with. Lol.
Interestingly Retribution aura scales with abilities that increase holy damage. If it's fully talented, popping Avenging Wrath relects about 380 damage every time someone strikes you, which is a massive damage boost against an enhancement shaman or a rogue for example. Oh, and fury warriors.
Man of the skills are situational. Until I got improved ret aura I used devotion aura most of the time. Starting out at early levels its pretty useful.
As for blessing, might hands down unless I'm in a long duration fight or lots of AoEing then I use wisdom. Once you get judgements of the wise, however, I found wisdom less and less necessary.
As for blessing, might hands down unless I'm in a long duration fight or lots of AoEing then I use wisdom. Once you get judgements of the wise, however, I found wisdom less and less necessary.
As a Ret -
Bless Yourself with STR, but pick up Kings if you plan on grouping a lot.
Roll RET Aura 99% of the time. Tanks take Imp. Dev Aura - the damage mitigation is one thing, but really it's the improved heals that benifits. As you don't take Imp Dev. Aura, you don't need to put it up.
If you group with a Prot Paly - Ask them to keep up Imp. Dev arua and YOU alter between Ret and the various resistance auras depending on the fight.
As far as Judging -
Solo - Judge what you need. If you need health - go that way (Especially if you're using a buff that will steal your health on hits). If you need mana - drop the mana hammer...
Group - don't judge heals. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the melee who get the benifit of your heal will increase YOUR AGRO. Currently Paly tanks are juding heals to increase their agro. Basically the healing done by your judgement will cause you to get DPS agro (Good - you are DPS right...) AND healer agro (Bad - you are not healing) = 2x agro.
Group with a Paly tank - Ask him/her to judge heals - you judge wisdom (Or justice if you have runner issues.)
Bless Yourself with STR, but pick up Kings if you plan on grouping a lot.
Roll RET Aura 99% of the time. Tanks take Imp. Dev Aura - the damage mitigation is one thing, but really it's the improved heals that benifits. As you don't take Imp Dev. Aura, you don't need to put it up.
If you group with a Prot Paly - Ask them to keep up Imp. Dev arua and YOU alter between Ret and the various resistance auras depending on the fight.
As far as Judging -
Solo - Judge what you need. If you need health - go that way (Especially if you're using a buff that will steal your health on hits). If you need mana - drop the mana hammer...
Group - don't judge heals. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the melee who get the benifit of your heal will increase YOUR AGRO. Currently Paly tanks are juding heals to increase their agro. Basically the healing done by your judgement will cause you to get DPS agro (Good - you are DPS right...) AND healer agro (Bad - you are not healing) = 2x agro.
Group with a Paly tank - Ask him/her to judge heals - you judge wisdom (Or justice if you have runner issues.)
Ret Aura always for me unless we need a magic resist.
This really depends on your playstyle/spell rotation.
For me it goes BoM > BoW > BoK > BoS
If there is 2 paladins in my 5man I will tell the other one to bless Wisdom (unless their Prot and need the threat from BoS) and I'll Greater Blessing of Kings him/her and then bless myself with my 30min BoMight.
In an instance like Violet Hold where there is a steady stream of enemies coming in I can spam DS, CS, judgements nonstop and add in the occasional consecration as well without having to stop to drink. If you can manage your Divine Plea into your rotation well and judge wisdom you shouldn't have any issues with mana return. The key is using Divine Plea early in prolonged fights, not leaving it to the last minute when you run oom. A typical early rotation for me would be Judgement, CS, DS, Cons then Divine Plea, then move into my normal spell rotation.
Using Glyphs like the Spirital Attunement/SoB/tM will help you out in dungoens as well.
As far as raiding goes (raided Sarth a few times now), mana management hasn't been a problem for me whether I use SoC or SotM. I usually save a mana pot for late in the fight and keep my LoH for if a tank gets critically low on health (I HoP the healers) or use it myself as a second health/mana regeneration option if I need.
http://failsafedesign.com/maintankad...php?t=17767
Says it all... I hear whining and #$(*ing from Holy Paladins that I know all the time that the Protection Paladins are ending up higher than them on the healing charts and that they should get to judge Light.. Well -- clearly those Holy Paladins don't parse reports for exactly how much threat this ability generates.
It is a core tanking tool. One that will clearly be getting a threat nerf in the near future. But even at 50% threat generation it would still pull over 2000 TPS for us in some ideal 25man fights.
This is the thread where you probably heard about the Judgement of Light threat bomb Borsuk.
Edited, Jan 14th 2009 6:08am by arthoriuss
Tsuvati wrote:
Might is great for super fast fights where you do almost no casting and are done in seconds.
When you are fighting 3-5mobs at a time your level(which is how I level) you need Wisdom or you will OOM so fast from healing.
Even at 42 I recommend it so you never have to stop. I have not used a drink or food aside in a dungeon since I made my Retadin.
Might is awesome for killing 1 v 1 but for anything more, or streaming fights(constant links) Wisdom shows more.
I'm not sure, but if you don't have the Art of War and replenishment talents at that level, you REALLY need the MP more.
When you are fighting 3-5mobs at a time your level(which is how I level) you need Wisdom or you will OOM so fast from healing.
Even at 42 I recommend it so you never have to stop. I have not used a drink or food aside in a dungeon since I made my Retadin.
Might is awesome for killing 1 v 1 but for anything more, or streaming fights(constant links) Wisdom shows more.
I'm not sure, but if you don't have the Art of War and replenishment talents at that level, you REALLY need the MP more.
This really depends on your playstyle/spell rotation.
For me it goes BoM > BoW > BoK > BoS
If there is 2 paladins in my 5man I will tell the other one to bless Wisdom (unless their Prot and need the threat from BoS) and I'll Greater Blessing of Kings him/her and then bless myself with my 30min BoMight.
In an instance like Violet Hold where there is a steady stream of enemies coming in I can spam DS, CS, judgements nonstop and add in the occasional consecration as well without having to stop to drink. If you can manage your Divine Plea into your rotation well and judge wisdom you shouldn't have any issues with mana return. The key is using Divine Plea early in prolonged fights, not leaving it to the last minute when you run oom. A typical early rotation for me would be Judgement, CS, DS, Cons then Divine Plea, then move into my normal spell rotation.
Using Glyphs like the Spirital Attunement/SoB/tM will help you out in dungoens as well.
As far as raiding goes (raided Sarth a few times now), mana management hasn't been a problem for me whether I use SoC or SotM. I usually save a mana pot for late in the fight and keep my LoH for if a tank gets critically low on health (I HoP the healers) or use it myself as a second health/mana regeneration option if I need.
Losie wrote:
http://failsafedesign.com/maintankad...php?t=17767
Says it all... I hear whining and #$(*ing from Holy Paladins that I know all the time that the Protection Paladins are ending up higher than them on the healing charts and that they should get to judge Light.. Well -- clearly those Holy Paladins don't parse reports for exactly how much threat this ability generates.
It is a core tanking tool. One that will clearly be getting a threat nerf in the near future. But even at 50% threat generation it would still pull over 2000 TPS for us in some ideal 25man fights.
This is the thread where you probably heard about the Judgement of Light threat bomb Borsuk.
Edited, Jan 14th 2009 6:08am by arthoriuss
good thread. I started playing my dwarven pally first time since last summer. They sure change alot! I don't know where to begin. Not having to put a new seal on after every judgement took a while to get used to. It seems seal of the crusader is gone now. So I just use seal of command all the time now (I'm 45 by the way). Is this right? I of course use ret aura and blessing of might. I took 2 talents to improve ret aura since they dont' appear to have the aura to increase holy damage anymore (or is that higher level?). I have a 64 be pally too, but been along time since I played her. There used to be a holy damage aura I remember.
There's also another talent for ret aura, but I don't get how it works. The way it reads, it looks like it causes mobs attacking me to do more damage to me lol. So I didn't take that one.
Just want to make sure I don't miss something in combat. I'm killing things pretty fast. But let me ask to make sure. seal of command up (2 min duration). I start off with eather judgement of wisdom or the healing one (lately I've been using wisdom more to alleviate mana problems). Then I whack em some. If all goes well they are about dead when my judgement comes off cooldown (8 secs), and my last judgement will kill them. If not I may use the hammer to kill them. Hammer goes through alot of mana though, which is why I use judgement of wisdom mostly now.
As you can tell I stopped playing my horde shammie. Tired of doing dailies, and my guild is going nowhere (leader has a gf I think). Plus that server is too low of population. Getting sick of not being able to find heroic groups. So I'm levelling my alliance paladin now.
There's also another talent for ret aura, but I don't get how it works. The way it reads, it looks like it causes mobs attacking me to do more damage to me lol. So I didn't take that one.
Just want to make sure I don't miss something in combat. I'm killing things pretty fast. But let me ask to make sure. seal of command up (2 min duration). I start off with eather judgement of wisdom or the healing one (lately I've been using wisdom more to alleviate mana problems). Then I whack em some. If all goes well they are about dead when my judgement comes off cooldown (8 secs), and my last judgement will kill them. If not I may use the hammer to kill them. Hammer goes through alot of mana though, which is why I use judgement of wisdom mostly now.
As you can tell I stopped playing my horde shammie. Tired of doing dailies, and my guild is going nowhere (leader has a gf I think). Plus that server is too low of population. Getting sick of not being able to find heroic groups. So I'm levelling my alliance paladin now.
thrashering wrote:
There's also another talent for ret aura, but I don't get how it works. The way it reads, it looks like it causes mobs attacking me to do more damage to me lol. So I didn't take that one.
Are you talking about Sanctified Retribution? If so, you're reading it wrong. Retribution Aura does not "affect" mobs, it "affects" you and your party/raid. So, if you have this talent, every friendly player in your group/raid, including you, has their damage increased by 3% when you are using Ret Aura. Must grab talent.
EDIT: %damage correct now thanks to Artemis.
Edited, Jan 1st 2009 2:00am by Maulgak
3% actually, it got a ninja-buff in a hotfix. It's a fantastic payoff for a single talent point.
4 posts
Borsuk wrote:
Group - don't judge heals. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the melee who get the benifit of your heal will increase YOUR AGRO. Currently Paly tanks are juding heals to increase their agro. Basically the healing done by your judgement will cause you to get DPS agro (Good - you are DPS right...) AND healer agro (Bad - you are not healing) = 2x agro.
I've wondered about this myself. This true?
I just switched to ret after being prot since tbc launched and i'm kinda iffy about which judgements to use.
If there is a tanking paladin in the group, they judge light, the ret pallys judge wisdom. If you are the only paladin, judge whatever the situation warrants. In the loatheb fight, you'll want to put judgement of light up, wheras for mana intensive dps race fights wisdom is better so you can go all out.
Judgement of light currently doesn't scale with the spellpower gained from sheath of light, so there is no difference between a retadin or a tankadin putting it up.
Edited, Jan 2nd 2009 11:48am by ArtemisEnteri
Judgement of light currently doesn't scale with the spellpower gained from sheath of light, so there is no difference between a retadin or a tankadin putting it up.
Edited, Jan 2nd 2009 11:48am by ArtemisEnteri
quick question please.
just dinged 64 and got seal of vengeance. Is this better than seal of command? The initial damage looks lower, but it stacks. Should I not use seal of command anymore?
just dinged 64 and got seal of vengeance. Is this better than seal of command? The initial damage looks lower, but it stacks. Should I not use seal of command anymore?
For solo / questing, Seal of Command will far outperform Seal of Vengeance as mobs should be dying faster than you can get a full stack on them. SoV is really more of a holy/prot seal, whereas ret does better with the burst SoC provides.
Borsuk wrote:
jssvirgo wrote:
Current threat mechanics are bugged. The person who Judges for heals gets the credit for those heals.
i.e. Paly tank judges Heals and every melee that hits the mob transfers the healing agro to the paly tank as if the paly were constantly spam'ing a 200ish heal on every melee in the group/raid.
There is speculation that upcoming patches will (or already have) fixed this. It is intended to apply the healing agro to the person who causes the healing. Debuffs on the mob generally don't function the way the current mechanics are working. (For Example: Ret paly can judge mobs with an increased chance to CRIT. All agro from crits against the mob are not redirected to the Ret Paly. If a rogue crits - the rogue gets that agro.)
However - from a tanking perspective this is an excellent bug. I don't know the heal conversion to agro ratio and I'm not sure if heals (like Ranged DPS) have a distance multiplier, but assuming each swing yields about 200hp healed - with just 1 melee in the group - I'm increasing my TPS a lot. Remember - 200ish for the heal and then the Holy threat multiplier...
Quote:
Group - don't judge heals. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the melee who get the benifit of your heal will increase YOUR AGRO. Currently Paly tanks are juding heals to increase their agro. Basically the healing done by your judgement will cause you to get DPS agro (Good - you are DPS right...) AND healer agro (Bad - you are not healing) = 2x agro.
jssvirgo wrote:
Quote:
I've wondered about this myself. This true?
I just switched to ret after being prot since tbc launched and i'm kinda iffy about which judgements to use.
I just switched to ret after being prot since tbc launched and i'm kinda iffy about which judgements to use.
Current threat mechanics are bugged. The person who Judges for heals gets the credit for those heals.
i.e. Paly tank judges Heals and every melee that hits the mob transfers the healing agro to the paly tank as if the paly were constantly spam'ing a 200ish heal on every melee in the group/raid.
There is speculation that upcoming patches will (or already have) fixed this. It is intended to apply the healing agro to the person who causes the healing. Debuffs on the mob generally don't function the way the current mechanics are working. (For Example: Ret paly can judge mobs with an increased chance to CRIT. All agro from crits against the mob are not redirected to the Ret Paly. If a rogue crits - the rogue gets that agro.)
However - from a tanking perspective this is an excellent bug. I don't know the heal conversion to agro ratio and I'm not sure if heals (like Ranged DPS) have a distance multiplier, but assuming each swing yields about 200hp healed - with just 1 melee in the group - I'm increasing my TPS a lot. Remember - 200ish for the heal and then the Holy threat multiplier...
another quick question lol
got seal of the martyr. looks like an alliance version of seal of blood (maybe something added in a recent patch?). Is this better than seal of command?
got seal of the martyr. looks like an alliance version of seal of blood (maybe something added in a recent patch?). Is this better than seal of command?
thrashering wrote:
another quick question lol
got seal of the martyr. looks like an alliance version of seal of blood (maybe something added in a recent patch?). Is this better than seal of command?
got seal of the martyr. looks like an alliance version of seal of blood (maybe something added in a recent patch?). Is this better than seal of command?
Simple answer is yes SotM is better for PvE than SoC. SoC has become the PvP Seal of choice but there are still some encounters where its probably not a good idea to use SoM/B because of the extra strain on healers. Over time SoB/Martyr wins out on dps though. It judges for huge amounts at 80. I've seen +9000 SotM judgement crits (Dont know what my highest is so far, I dont have recount atm) while in 5mans and raids. It works very well with Divine Storm as it procs with every white hit.
Edited, Jan 17th 2009 6:34am by arthoriuss
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