Reason Why Prot ALWAYS Judges LightFollow

i agree the threat is amazing. but, as you said, it will be nerfed(or fixed). AFAIK, JoL used to be credited to the attacker not the initial caster, similar to imp Leader of the Pack.

the upside to the threat from JoL is Tankadin nirvana. the downside is Retadin hell. if you dont have a Tankadin and the Ret pally is doing JoL, that's a huge threat kick in the nuts on an already aggro weary spec.

since Blizzard is walking on eggshells with Ret pallies, they wouldn't leave such a flaw in the game if it would hinder Ret pwnage.

JoL is fun for tanking though, enjoy.

Judgement of Light is being changed to no longer produce threat.

When that happens, JoL is to be used by the paladin that gets the most out of it. Usually a ret paladin.


And blah at the threat it does make now. I judged light on Sapphiron. Even with the massive raid damage and everyone proccing it constantly, I never rose above 15% of tank threat. Healing does half threat. Pally healing does half of that. With RF on, it's still less than half a point of threat per point of healing. Not almost double like that page says..

Source Please?

Understandably it will be nerfed, I'm not aware of any immediate plan for it at the moment as far as official posts go.

I should say that it is working as intended right now. It is supposed to generate threat for the caster, it has been redesigned to be the central raid threat generating tool for Paladins that they balance the rest of our abilities around. This has been known for a long time, so Blizzard changing it entirely back to the old system in which threat is attributed to the person who actually gets the healing (effectively splitting it 25 ways) or removing threat from it entirely would be counter-productive in respect to their design philosophy for Paladins this expansion.

Working as intended and overpowered are two different things. And I agree that Ret is screwed if they need to judge Light. Fortunatly, Wisdom tends to be more important -- so Rets using their super-buffed judgement on that are understandable. But really, in an ideal fight for JoL it represents an extra healer. I want to see a nerf. Possibly a scaling nerf, like a reduction in the amount healed based on how many group/raid members there are, that scales back to 50% at 25 to control the "it's like having another healer" aspect, and a 50% threat reduction ontop of that. Or perhaps change the school that heals from Holy to something else. Whatever, I don't think we'll be waiting long. I would be dissapointed if the threat element were completely removed then, but I would understand. Unfortunatly, other abilities would have to be buffed to generate an additional 1k-1.5k TSP (which is what JoL was intended to be used for) to bring up back up to par.

as a Ret pally, JoL is essential for heroic PUGs(and even guild runs). as a Ret pally i am constantly taking dmg, therefore i am constantly healing myself, in turn i am generating contant extra threat. other party members are excluded from this 'threat penalty' since most classes dont take constant dmg. for them most healing done via JoL is overhealing which generates no threat.

so the dilema: do i help the non-pally tank and the healer by judging Light, where i need to hold back my own output? or do i say ***** it, be a mana sponge with JoW + Spirit Att, and let er rip?

Ret pallies get hosed all around.
-you get the melee threat penalty
-you get the burst dmg penalty
-you get the utility penalty(JoL, DS heals, Replenishment?)

if you are wondering who should get Vigilance and HoSalv next time, keep those things in mind.



if this is true then god save us all.

In raids there tend to be a lot of Seal of Light procs flying around that contribute substantially to threat. I'm seeing TPS numbers above 6k in Naxx25 now and we had a fairly melee heavy group last night with hunter pets, at least one rogue, 3 warriors (4 for a short while) and a DK and their ghoul(s) smacking away at the mobs.

Don't recall anyone suggesting JoL does 5k.

A tank running a consistent 5k tps is doing fairly well in raids. Keep in mind that Righteous Fury grants paladins +90% threat from Holy spells. So assuming that out of your 800 tps, 250 of that was from JoL procs, unless the procs don't currently benefit from the threat bonus of RF, that same JoL proc would be adding just shy of 500tps to your tank.

Well geared and well played, dps classes are hitting 4-6k dps in 25-man Naxx. As a tank, I'll take anything and everything I can get to stay on top of the tps, especially for gear check fights and/or enrage timers. The last thing I want is for my dps to have to lose time dumping threat and/or generally having to hold back when we need every little bit we can squeeze out.

so this thread essentially turned into:

Reason Why Ret ALWAYS Judges Light

with the threat removal, Ret is the clear choice when available.


but to beat the dead horse...

i dont know how that was figured either. but i found a link claiming:

Tankadin judges Light on Felmyst. Light heals everyone that harms Felmyst. Tankadin receives 1.35*[Every point healed] in threat.
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/26/12454617434-tankadin--judgement-of-light-hurts-my-raid.html

25 people taking 200 heals per sec is 5000 heals/sec to tank threat. keep in mind this is a maximum value with everyone striking target(unless artificially buffed)

Edited, Dec 20th 2008 8:06pm by tommyguns

a simple Prot talent would fix that. weave it into imp RF?

The nerf had to come, and Blizzard chose to remove the threat component entirely.

Incidentally, that does place us behind the curve in threat potential again (although at this point we should still be able to generate more than enough, it may become an issue in Ulduar if it isnt rebalanced yet then). I'm interested to see how/if that'll ever get balanced out.

Yea, without a threat component Ret has the strongest judgements so Light will be Ret's priority in larger raids most likely. Wisdom would be a second Ret's priority (if there are 2) and Prots would want their slow effects up so Holy judgements might take a hit when there are 2+ Rets and a Prot.

Hopefully being able to use Wings will help a bit. For fights with frenzies you basically can't use it at all at this point -- and the possability of needing bubblewall when there aren't frenzies still exists too.