How to max dps?Follow

Hit is more vital for Combat that Mutilate (which is my current build). Right now I'm trying to keep around 400 but it's not a magic number.

If you are serious about min/maxing for raid, get the spreadsheet. No simple answer here can trump the hard math of a well-modeled sheet.

Good luck!

edit: In my current gear I'm seeing 3.2k on Patchwerk (Naxx25) which put me in the top 5 (I don't have the wws in front of me right now). Still not the same position in the meters that I was seeing with comparable gear on Brutalus where I was #1 unless I screwed up usually. Just a note.

Edited, Dec 16th 2008 12:26pm by TherionSaysWhat

I thought fist/dagger was better rolling a faster dagger...there's 3 or 4 out there that are much faster...

The cycles are notated as variable and finisher. Xn means "X" number of combo points Envenom. "n" = Envenom, "r" = Rupture, "s" = Slice N Dice, "e" = Eviscerate. CttC = Cut to the Chase, to be used when the talent is present.

The variables can be set next to the cycle portion of Vuljin's spreadsheet (if that's the one you're using) and are noted.

Energy pooling is not combo points but how much Energy you might "save up" before starting a set of attacks. Generally speaking Combat rotations don't normally pool energy unless there's you have a problem in the sequence, Combat being more stable as far as that goes (i.e. your using the same abilities in the same order nearly all of the time). Whereas energy pooling is vital for Mutilate where there will be moments when your timers are syncing you'll need a large amount (or "pool") of energy to refresh all your timers before anything drops and with a minimum of uptime loss (or "clipping").

For all Combat builds you should be looking for the highest average damage main-hand weapon available, and fastest available off-hand considering similar DPS ranges. With sword spec talented, you'd want swords of course. But with Close Quarters talented you can intermix fists and daggers. Problem being that daggers are not itemized to have as high average damage as fists are (NOT DPS, take the damage range from the tool tip and average them) and fists are not being itemized right now for fast speeds generally. So conventional wisdom is to use fist main, dagger off. But always keep in mind: High Avg. Main, Fast Off.

Hope that helps. Cheers.

EDIT: basic rule of thumb is that .1 weapon speed = 10 DPS.... rough rule of thumb =)

Edited, Dec 16th 2008 2:30pm by TherionSaysWhat

Your first mistake is gemming/enchanting for hit. As long as you are above 132 hit, gem for AP or Agil. Currently AP is slightly better. Your weapons must have at least Mongoose on them, it's pretty cheap nowadays.

Heh you even linked, the EJ pocketguide. Why are you gemming and enchanting for hit again?

18 sta gem in your chest slot? /boggle

Wrong meta gem, always use relentless earthsiege for pve. Again I am just repeating everything that is said in the EJ pocket guide.



Edited, Dec 17th 2008 12:51pm by Elustriel

The poison hit cap (315) is still an important part of the raiders diet, and should be a consideration for either Mutilate or Combat. Do you have statistical evidence that there is a tipping-point at 132 or something like that?

I believe the specials hit cap is 99 currently. Regardless, gemming exclusively for AP/Agi after the specials cap is not optimal insofar as I can tell. But if there's an analysis I've missed somewhere, please link it! Conventional wisdom is to value hit at nearly equal to agi up to the poison cap. At least for combat builds where a larger share of damage is coming from auto-attack.

You and I are reading the same numbers differently.

Gem for EP

Edited, Dec 22nd 2008 4:19am by Boyiee

AP, to be more clear since it's slightly better than agi atm. However with current itemization, it's not really plausible to go below special hit cap. This is strictly PVE speaking.

I am not some enemy of hit or anything heh, it's still a decent stat, it's just not better than AP/Agil. I welcome it with open arms on my items if they provide a dps up over my old one. Heck 2 of my orange gems have hit on them. In that case those combinations proved to be highest dps, considering socket bonus and meta needs.

Edited, Dec 19th 2008 12:21am by Elustriel

Anyways, I brought up below hit example just to prove a point. There is no way to go below hit with current itemization, feels like I am repeating myself too much lately.....

If you read stuff on EJ, and listen to Vulajin and use his spreadsheet, you'd see why.

Spreadsheet is the answer. I prefer math to "I feel hit is still good because I dreamed about unicorns" type of argument.

Edited, Dec 19th 2008 12:26am by Elustriel

I have never seen any decent DPS speadsheet/modeler prefer Agi/AP over Hit until much higher than the specials hit cap. Honestly, I don't see how anyone would want to not get to the poison cap with the current value (in overall DPS percentage contribution) of poisons and for my rogue gemming for Agi over hit didn't happen until a little ways after crossing the poison cap. But that's gear dependent and I'm not suggesting that everyone get a certain number regardless of gear. Only pointing out what I've experienced from calculating my toons needs. Also note that hit values change for different specs quite dramatically.

The stat weights are static comparative numbers and cannot represent the inter-dependency of stats in actual combat calculations. Static EP weights are, as noted, a guideline but in no way are they meant to replace a well-written spreadsheet/modeler.

And, if other readers aren't getting what it seems we all agree on: Use. A. Spreadsheet. =)

Feel free to post data comparing both. If you can't provide that, than what you are experiencing is simply the bias to something you feel more favorably about in the 1st place. It's like people trying to prove religion.

Hey Therion,

I agree with you about the spreadsheet. But if you want to say to refer to the spreadsheet in this current debate about gemming hit vs ap/agi I'd like to point out that when using the spreadsheet you really need to be aware of your regular raid buffs and debuffs (Imp FF and misery, Heroic presence) as my hit of 253 keeps me over the poison hit (210 for me due to grp makeup) and so the number you say is a 'very important part of a raiders diet (315)' isnt a static must hit number for the cap.

If any as a raider want to min/max they need to know the debuffs and raid buffs to gear and gem more accordingly and make sure you REFLECT that in the SPREADSHEET for it to be effective before coming here and saying gem AP instead of Hit or vice versa.

In short, I'd like to just point out that there are 3 different poison caps all based on group and they should be taken into account when discussing gemming and even when gemming.

And OP:

If you dont have the Rupture Glyph on your realm yet, mine just got it last night, try using the AR glyph as it does bug Killing spree reducing its CD to 1 min. Yes its a bug but it is a nice one. After they fix it I may keep it as the 1min reduction on AR CD makes it flow nicely with the second BF and makes a 2 AR fight more plausible on the long fights.

Edited, Dec 19th 2008 6:21pm by Contalyst

Edited, Dec 19th 2008 6:25pm by Contalyst