I'm getting very frustrated lately in BGs. I can't touch anything. Why? Because everyone is a DK. I can kill them in Random 1v1 pvp sometimes, but in BGs I can't kill them at all. Everything they have counters everything I have. Dots to prevent stealthing, snares to stop me from even getting close enough to hit them, High def so NONE of my hits do any damage. I just don't know what to do anymore. I try to do more BGs to get better gear, but I I can't stay alive long enough to get any honor built up. I'm at a loss and very frusterated. How does everyone here do it? I'm currently specced Mutilate. Link to gear is in sig.
I so can't even explain how frustrated I am.
Edited, Dec 12th 2008 12:55pm by LiptonSoup
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Can't say I've done many BGs since Wrath launched, dunno if it's a bug or a ****** battlegroup but everything except for Strand ends up as 10+ horde vs 2-4 allys. For honor, best bet is Wintergrasp bar none. Had 6k honor going into Wrath, started going to Wintergrasp around lvl 73 and was honor capped at 75k by time I was 78. Honor gain is just ridiculous in Wintergrasp, but rightfully so if the prices for gear stays as they were in beta.
As for DKs, can't really give many tips cause I've had the same issues. Blood usually destroys me before I can make much of a dent, and unholy I can work with for awhile, but usually still end up down cause I can't get past bone shield with their pet wailing on me too. XD Usually just have my mage friend try and keep them at a range and stealth in to catch them off guard. Outside of that, usually doesn't end well if I try and rush into one, specially if they have any idea how to play their own class.
As for DKs, can't really give many tips cause I've had the same issues. Blood usually destroys me before I can make much of a dent, and unholy I can work with for awhile, but usually still end up down cause I can't get past bone shield with their pet wailing on me too. XD Usually just have my mage friend try and keep them at a range and stealth in to catch them off guard. Outside of that, usually doesn't end well if I try and rush into one, specially if they have any idea how to play their own class.
Sadly I don't have WotLK yet. Any other places worth while for farming Honor?
Didn't check your armory before, but at 64, I can't imagine you'd really be able to farm honor effectively. Maybe Halaa with some DKs running through? Again, no idea about other server's BGs, but mine seem pretty screwed atm, doubt low lvls are any better, but if the queues aren't crazy long, might be able to knock out a little honor there, but nothing compared to what you can get higher up.
Granted, I haven't spend too much time in the BG's since 80, but I feel I don't really have problems with DK's. Treating them like warriors usually does the trick; CloS and/or vanish when they use Death's Grip+ice thingie (fair enough, I guess once DK's get more skilled they'll stop using both their gap closers as the same time) and it's usually good game. It's fairly easy to kite them and DOT them down.
Mozared wrote:
Granted, I haven't spend too much time in the BG's since 80, but I feel I don't really have problems with DK's. Treating them like warriors usually does the trick; CloS and/or vanish when they use Death's Grip+ice thingie (fair enough, I guess once DK's get more skilled they'll stop using both their gap closers as the same time) and it's usually good game. It's fairly easy to kite them and DOT them down.
Chains of Ice isn't on a cooldown, just a frost rune. I spam CoI in PvP, as there's really nothing else to eat up my frost runes but Obliterate (and I just use that to put up burst). You're going to see a lot of DG+CoI.
Treating DKs like warriors is going to get you owned, especially versus Frost DKs. They have Howling Blast, which is a 30 yard AoE that can hit for upwards of 4k.
Really the best way to deal with a DK is to drop a stunlock on him as you open; that'll get him to pop IBF (Icebound Fortitude, prevents all stuns and reduces damage by 50%). During IBF you pretty much CloS/Vanish to get back into stealth. Be careful, because good DKs will drop DnD where you Vanished (if they have the runes up). Wait out your DRs on stuns, then open again. From there, you can kinda treat a DK like a warrior, though IMO it's a mistake to try to 5-8. I can burn a rogue down that's 5-8ing me much faster than his bleeds are going to tick through me, and I'm not even Frost.
I guess I really don't have an answer for you, since good DKs will almost always beat rogues, especially if the rogues are mut.
Hey Theo what's the cooldown on IBF, and is there a flashy animation? Do all DK's get it regardless of spec, thanks man. (absorbing info ftw)
1 Minute Cooldown, don't know about the flashy animation.
Should I pray for nerf bats for Christmas then?
Sap DK, kill ghoul, restealth and resap.
Repeat when he summons the ghoul again. This is vital in forcing him to eat every stun. (With a ghoul, he will not have to trinket blind)
Sap again, ghetto premed.
Stunlock him, CS SnD mut mut KS mut mut, evasion till he pops IBF rupture, vanish and clos.
Sap as rupture runs out. (if he tries to eat, just distract)
Stunlock again. End with CB evi. He's dead, unless he has naxx level tank gear, in which case you just use rupture the second time and repeat the process again and hope to get lucky dodging one of the DnDs.
With SnD and two papercutters I rip right through plate with poison damage. It's pretty insane.
Oh, and IBF is gettign nerefd to 20% damage reduction without any bonus defence.
Edited, Dec 12th 2008 4:56pm by Kavekk
Repeat when he summons the ghoul again. This is vital in forcing him to eat every stun. (With a ghoul, he will not have to trinket blind)
Sap again, ghetto premed.
Stunlock him, CS SnD mut mut KS mut mut, evasion till he pops IBF rupture, vanish and clos.
Sap as rupture runs out. (if he tries to eat, just distract)
Stunlock again. End with CB evi. He's dead, unless he has naxx level tank gear, in which case you just use rupture the second time and repeat the process again and hope to get lucky dodging one of the DnDs.
With SnD and two papercutters I rip right through plate with poison damage. It's pretty insane.
Oh, and IBF is gettign nerefd to 20% damage reduction without any bonus defence.
Edited, Dec 12th 2008 4:56pm by Kavekk
I still haven't seen Dismantle mentioned. If you time it right, it can be a lifesaver.
Dismantle does almost nothing to a DK, they cast nearly as much as they melee, while they're auto attack wouldn't happen they'd still be able to do decent damage. ATM DK's are impossible if they can use Rune Strike, Ice Bound Fortitude and Diseases, they take nearly no damage, can crit over 8k with RS and can prevent a vasion, baring cloak.
Which is why I said time it right. If you know the class, you should be able to "count the runes". Dismantle at the right time and they won't be able to use their melee Strikes while most of their runes are still on Cooldown. It's not much, but disregarding a tool can be fatal in a fight.
The reason I say evasion rather than dismantle in my cycle is that you don't have energy to dismantle without getting hit first.
Dismantle is good for when the **** hits the fan, though, especially if they don't have a weaponchain type enchant.
Dismantle is good for when the **** hits the fan, though, especially if they don't have a weaponchain type enchant.
The way they are now I think Death Knight is just a little too overpowered in a PvP setting. They mitigate way too much damage while still being able to dish out even more and it doesn't even really matter what spec they are. When there's like one or two of them in a BG (and not together) I can usually kill them easy enough, but more and more often nearly the entire alliance side is made out of mainly Death Knights and it just shuts down any possible progress you could be making otherwise. Major problem is being able to rez as a Ghoul and still be able to pump absurd damage (when I kill you and you get right back up as a Ghoul and hit me just as hard a you were before I made you eat dirt, that's just getting into the realm of "really ******* retarded"). I wouldn't look to Blizz to nerf their precious Hero Class any time soon either, but the class seriously needs it. They're worse than Ret Pallies ffs.
My biggest pet peeve with it is they aren't even hard to obtain. All you have to do is take a few days (or a few hours if you're good...) to hit 55 with a single character and then you're free to make a game-breaking DK. Something so powerful really shouldn't be so easy to access in my opinion. Otherwise I'm going to start demanding Naxx25 gear be moved to lvl50 dungeons with a 100% drop rate off of trash mobs.
My biggest pet peeve with it is they aren't even hard to obtain. All you have to do is take a few days (or a few hours if you're good...) to hit 55 with a single character and then you're free to make a game-breaking DK. Something so powerful really shouldn't be so easy to access in my opinion. Otherwise I'm going to start demanding Naxx25 gear be moved to lvl50 dungeons with a 100% drop rate off of trash mobs.
FFXI (Retired)
Naiya | Mithra | Windurst | Rank 10 | 1st Lieutenant | Ragnarok
WAR: 75 MNK: 75 SAM: 66
RotZ: O | CoP: O | ToAU: O | Apoch Nigh: O
WoW
Naiyah | B.Elf | 85 Rogue | Stormscale
Doubleday | B.Elf | 85 Paladin | Stormscale
[ffxivsig]367614[/ffxivsig]
Naiya | Mithra | Windurst | Rank 10 | 1st Lieutenant | Ragnarok
WAR: 75 MNK: 75 SAM: 66
RotZ: O | CoP: O | ToAU: O | Apoch Nigh: O
WoW
Naiyah | B.Elf | 85 Rogue | Stormscale
Doubleday | B.Elf | 85 Paladin | Stormscale
[ffxivsig]367614[/ffxivsig]
MasterOutlaw the Irrelevant wrote:
The way they are now I think Death Knight is just a little too overpowered in a PvP setting. They mitigate way too much damage while still being able to dish out even more and it doesn't even really matter what spec they are. When there's like one or two of them in a BG (and not together) I can usually kill them easy enough, but more and more often nearly the entire alliance side is made out of mainly Death Knights and it just shuts down any possible progress you could be making otherwise. Major problem is being able to rez as a Ghoul and still be able to pump absurd damage (when I kill you and you get right back up as a Ghoul and hit me just as hard a you were before I made you eat dirt, that's just getting into the realm of "really @#%^ing retarded"). I wouldn't look to Blizz to nerf their precious Hero Class any time soon either, but the class seriously needs it. They're worse than Ret Pallies ffs.
My biggest pet peeve with it is they aren't even hard to obtain. All you have to do is take a few days (or a few hours if you're good...) to hit 55 with a single character and then you're free to make a game-breaking DK. Something so powerful really shouldn't be so easy to access in my opinion. Otherwise I'm going to start demanding Naxx25 gear be moved to lvl50 dungeons with a 100% drop rate off of trash mobs.
My biggest pet peeve with it is they aren't even hard to obtain. All you have to do is take a few days (or a few hours if you're good...) to hit 55 with a single character and then you're free to make a game-breaking DK. Something so powerful really shouldn't be so easy to access in my opinion. Otherwise I'm going to start demanding Naxx25 gear be moved to lvl50 dungeons with a 100% drop rate off of trash mobs.
I can play a rogue just as well--and as effectively--as a DK. The only DKs you should be getting curb-stomped by are the DKs who are already good at PvP, and then you're be getting curb-stomped by them on their original class, too.
Edit: hell, with as little experience as I've had on a DK, I could play a rogue a hell of a lot better at this point.
Edited, Dec 13th 2008 12:36am by Theophany
Quote:
With a ghoul, he will not have to trinket blind
Why is this? Also do all specs of DK's get the ghoul pet? Man I really gotta play that class a bit to get more familiar with it.
Edited, Dec 13th 2008 7:29am by Zornov
Overlord Theophany wrote:
The only DKs you should be getting curb-stomped by are the DKs who are already good at PvP, and then you're be getting curb-stomped by them on their original class, too.
Edit: hell, with as little experience as I've had on a DK, I could play a rogue a hell of a lot better at this point.
Edited, Dec 13th 2008 12:36am by Theophany
Edit: hell, with as little experience as I've had on a DK, I could play a rogue a hell of a lot better at this point.
Edited, Dec 13th 2008 12:36am by Theophany
Not if, say, their original class was an enhancement shaman.
Oh, and if he has a ghoul out you can't restealth off blind. You can regen energy, but the ghoul will hit you while you do.
Edited, Dec 13th 2008 9:04am by Kavekk
Quote:
I can play a rogue just as well--and as effectively--as a DK. The only DKs you should be getting curb-stomped by are the DKs who are already good at PvP, and then you're be getting curb-stomped by them on their original class, too.
Edit: hell, with as little experience as I've had on a DK, I could play a rogue a hell of a lot better at this point.
Edit: hell, with as little experience as I've had on a DK, I could play a rogue a hell of a lot better at this point.
So basically, you're stating you can book the same results with a DK right now as a rogue; and that you play a rogue a lot better. Wouldn't that exactly be confirming Masteroutlaw's comment?
Mozared wrote:
Quote:
I can play a rogue just as well--and as effectively--as a DK. The only DKs you should be getting curb-stomped by are the DKs who are already good at PvP, and then you're be getting curb-stomped by them on their original class, too.
Edit: hell, with as little experience as I've had on a DK, I could play a rogue a hell of a lot better at this point.
Edit: hell, with as little experience as I've had on a DK, I could play a rogue a hell of a lot better at this point.
So basically, you're stating you can book the same results with a DK right now as a rogue; and that you play a rogue a lot better. Wouldn't that exactly be confirming Masteroutlaw's comment?
I think Theo is saying that as a good PvPer, he could kick your *** with a level 12 pink pigtailed gnome.
AtrophyGFour wrote:
Mozared wrote:
Quote:
I can play a rogue just as well--and as effectively--as a DK. The only DKs you should be getting curb-stomped by are the DKs who are already good at PvP, and then you're be getting curb-stomped by them on their original class, too.
Edit: hell, with as little experience as I've had on a DK, I could play a rogue a hell of a lot better at this point.
Edit: hell, with as little experience as I've had on a DK, I could play a rogue a hell of a lot better at this point.
So basically, you're stating you can book the same results with a DK right now as a rogue; and that you play a rogue a lot better. Wouldn't that exactly be confirming Masteroutlaw's comment?
I think Theo is saying that as a good PvPer, he could kick your *** with a level 12 pink pigtailed gnome.
I actually can do a lot better as a rogue in PvP. It comes with playing the class for four years, versus maybe two months as a DK.
I don't get the results I would see on my rogue on my DK at this point; less resilience and unfamiliarity with the spec I play and my abilities does that.
I fully expect that I'll be able to keep up within a week on my DK, though.
The only way you should see improvement if you switch from rogue to DK is if you play your rogue like a retadin/warrior.
Death Knights aren't as much like my retardin as i thought they would be. Chains of Ice with death grip is super-fun, but i can't get used to losing that straight off the bat burst. They feel more fragile too, though i haven't tried anything but blood.
ArtemisEnteri wrote:
Death Knights aren't as much like my retardin as i thought they would be. Chains of Ice with death grip is super-fun, but i can't get used to losing that straight off the bat burst. They feel more fragile too, though i haven't tried anything but blood.
Blood--without WotN--is fragile unless you know how to manage Rune Tap.
I'm personally trying Frost, as I think it's got more potential; but if I don't like how it plays, I'm sure I'll be going back to my Blood spec.
On a 1vs1 setting (I know, PvP isn't balanced around 1vs1, but still) I find the difficulty going from Frost being hardest, to blood, to Unholy. Unholy are the easiest to deal with if my Prep is up, as they seem to be lacking in the burst department. A skilled Blood DK is a ***** to deal with since I have to chew through so much bloody health, similar to a skilled Paladin while they dish out some serious damage.
A Frost DK though? If he knows I'm coming, I'm not giving myself good odds for the fight. His damage output is high while having some insane mitigation. And that's if I can even get to the *******.
I really ought to level my own Death Knight past 59, to really get a feel for and understand the class better. My only knowledge on DK capability comes mostly from World PvP or BG clusterfucks, so it's hardly Arena representative.
A Frost DK though? If he knows I'm coming, I'm not giving myself good odds for the fight. His damage output is high while having some insane mitigation. And that's if I can even get to the *******.
I really ought to level my own Death Knight past 59, to really get a feel for and understand the class better. My only knowledge on DK capability comes mostly from World PvP or BG clusterfucks, so it's hardly Arena representative.
NorthAI the Hand wrote:
On a 1vs1 setting (I know, PvP isn't balanced around 1vs1, but still) I find the difficulty going from Frost being hardest, to blood, to Unholy. Unholy are the easiest to deal with if my Prep is up, as they seem to be lacking in the burst department. A skilled Blood DK is a ***** to deal with since I have to chew through so much bloody health, similar to a skilled Paladin while they dish out some serious damage.
A Frost DK though? If he knows I'm coming, I'm not giving myself good odds for the fight. His damage output is high while having some insane mitigation. And that's if I can even get to the *******.
I really ought to level my own Death Knight past 59, to really get a feel for and understand the class better. My only knowledge on DK capability comes mostly from World PvP or BG clusterfucks, so it's hardly Arena representative.
A Frost DK though? If he knows I'm coming, I'm not giving myself good odds for the fight. His damage output is high while having some insane mitigation. And that's if I can even get to the *******.
I really ought to level my own Death Knight past 59, to really get a feel for and understand the class better. My only knowledge on DK capability comes mostly from World PvP or BG clusterfucks, so it's hardly Arena representative.
Really the only mitigation that Frost has over my Blood spec is Unbreakable Armor; most people speccing Frost don't take Frigid Deathplate like I do.
Well, 20 seconds of 25% more armor is frightening to behold. I admit I don't know too much about the DK class, but I've yet to see any Blood DKs of my faction take Toughness either, which adds 15% more armor. Even if I should get the Frost DK down to nigh-dead, it usually means that I've had to pop the trinket already and thus Hungering Cold stops me in my tracks and he bandages back up enough that I'm dead.
A skilled Frost DK is my hardest fight so far. Blood and Unholy I can deal with.
A skilled Frost DK is my hardest fight so far. Blood and Unholy I can deal with.
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