Im curious to see if any other paladins have played around with holy/prot for divine guardian. I had it for a good 3 weeks, and while i know the obvious advantages of speccing into ret for an extra 8% crit (11% when you judge) to me the ability was waaaay to good to pass up. Its basically a Mini Shield wall for your entire raid. When combined with Blessing of Sac its a 60% reduction on the Main Tank and 30% on EVERYONE else. I have found countless uses for this ability in both 10 and 25 mans, and honestly cant see why i would get rid of it. I dont have a problem in any heroics, 10 mans or 25 mans keeping tanks alive.
I recently spec'd into ret to see what kind of a difference it will make, but i cant see it being so big that i can drop it...have any raiding or non-raiding pallies played around with it, what are your feelings on it as an overall tool, and how does the build stack up against a holy/ret build.
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I'd call it a PvP talent, or a situational boss fight talent. If you're going for an achievement kill which gives out a ton of damage, like 3-drakes Sartharion, -30% damage raid-wide is awesome, and probably better than 8% crit on its own.
But there are still quite a few fights where only a select number of tanks and off-tanks take damage. Taking Divine Guardian for an entire Naxx run wouldn't help much.
Then again, I haven't done much full-Holy stuff. I've still done fine healing as ret, basing my entire healing job around Judgements of the Wise, Art of War, and Sheath of Light. I don't have any experience at all with Divine Guardian.
Edit: I'd personally rather see Divine Guardian taken by a raid "Secondary Tank" spec, in a guild with a dedicated Main Tank. A healer losing 8% crit is a much greater loss than a tank losing 2 talent points that they probably don't need anyway. Like me, I'm not geared enough to MT most raid bosses, but I can certainly get adds. My raids wouldn't notice if I lost 2% crit. They would notice if suddenly everyone took -30% damage, and I could do that every 4 minutes.
Edited, Dec 11th 2008 2:32pm by Ehcks
But there are still quite a few fights where only a select number of tanks and off-tanks take damage. Taking Divine Guardian for an entire Naxx run wouldn't help much.
Then again, I haven't done much full-Holy stuff. I've still done fine healing as ret, basing my entire healing job around Judgements of the Wise, Art of War, and Sheath of Light. I don't have any experience at all with Divine Guardian.
Edit: I'd personally rather see Divine Guardian taken by a raid "Secondary Tank" spec, in a guild with a dedicated Main Tank. A healer losing 8% crit is a much greater loss than a tank losing 2 talent points that they probably don't need anyway. Like me, I'm not geared enough to MT most raid bosses, but I can certainly get adds. My raids wouldn't notice if I lost 2% crit. They would notice if suddenly everyone took -30% damage, and I could do that every 4 minutes.
Edited, Dec 11th 2008 2:32pm by Ehcks
I'm coming at it from the other side as Ehcks, having leveled up to 53/0/18 - ready for heroics, but only done 5-mans and undermanned old-world raids since LK.
I see it as more viable in a raid environment, and for most guilds probably more 25-man than 10-man (unless, like mine, your guild is overendowed with holy pallies). If you're speccing prot for kings anyway, it might be worth it to go 17 or 18 points and get DG, since the other pally (or a Ret spec, if you bring one) brings HotC so the raid doesn't lose the 3% crit. And the shield effect will be situational - either useless or very valuable. I expect it probably ends up being a wash to your overall effectiveness, but diversity is good, as it means the raid can better handle a bigger variety of situations.
I see it as more viable in a raid environment, and for most guilds probably more 25-man than 10-man (unless, like mine, your guild is overendowed with holy pallies). If you're speccing prot for kings anyway, it might be worth it to go 17 or 18 points and get DG, since the other pally (or a Ret spec, if you bring one) brings HotC so the raid doesn't lose the 3% crit. And the shield effect will be situational - either useless or very valuable. I expect it probably ends up being a wash to your overall effectiveness, but diversity is good, as it means the raid can better handle a bigger variety of situations.
I was also tempted by this. You just have to get so much useless crap to get to it...
Great talent, but 12 talent points (17 if you don't have BoK) is very expensive. That's just my opinion though.
I think it should be a Holy talent. Give Blessed Life to Prot :)
To directly answer your question - I would only get this if you are stuck on a raid boss that is dealing out too much raid damage for the healers to keep up. Maybe dual-spec it? It's just too situational for a single spec.
Great talent, but 12 talent points (17 if you don't have BoK) is very expensive. That's just my opinion though.
I think it should be a Holy talent. Give Blessed Life to Prot :)
To directly answer your question - I would only get this if you are stuck on a raid boss that is dealing out too much raid damage for the healers to keep up. Maybe dual-spec it? It's just too situational for a single spec.
This talent does seem to be in a weird place. It practically screams for holy paladins to take it and then it is put in a place in the prot tree that would make you sacrifice way too much to get it.
The only reason a prot paladin would have it would be for PvP.
The only reason a prot paladin would have it would be for PvP.
i considered this talent for my Ret pve/pvp build. its just really hard to scrape up the points for it.
the downside to this talent is timing. if you use bubble to prevent dmg to your tank or raid then you sacrifice using your bubble for incoming dmg to yourself later. if the dmg taken is on everyone, you win. otherwise it could be suicide.
this is why i would consider the talent for Ret. a Ret can usually forego self-preservation to keep the raid up. a Holy, not so much.
the downside to this talent is timing. if you use bubble to prevent dmg to your tank or raid then you sacrifice using your bubble for incoming dmg to yourself later. if the dmg taken is on everyone, you win. otherwise it could be suicide.
this is why i would consider the talent for Ret. a Ret can usually forego self-preservation to keep the raid up. a Holy, not so much.
Seems that most raids will have 1 holy pally with Divine Guardian and 1 with points in Ret.
Much like having CoH and Spirit priests
Much like having CoH and Spirit priests
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Thats exactly what i was going for, the other holy pally i raid with was down in ret so i went into prot to play around. It seemed to be helpful, extremely situational tho, but in the actual situations where it can be used effectively its really amazing
Does Divine Guardian stack? If 2 pally's have it, and they use it at the same time - does that reduce damage by 60%? Or 51% (i.e. 30 + (70*.3))? Or does one cancel the other out? Just curious.
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