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Upcoming Death Knight ChangesFollow

#1 Dec 10 2008 at 11:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ghostcrawler wrote:
We have talked about making some of these changes and wanted to provide more details. You should be able to try these out yourselves on the PTR before they go live.

Our reason for most of these changes should be obvious, but some common themes are:
-- Making tanking still rely on cooldowns, but rely on them a little less.
-- Make Blood a more attractive spec, and particularly for tanking.
-- Chill out some of the defensive capabilities all DKs have in PvP.
-- Avoid having to use Death and Decay as an out-of-combat runic power generator.

1) Rune Strike -- damage decreased from 200% to 150% but threat increased to 150% from 100%.
2) All multi-rune abilities generate 15 runic power.
3) Anti-Magic Shell -- cooldown lowered to 45 sec from 60 sec.
4) The healing of Blood Aura, Blood Presence and Death Pact has been doubled.
5) Bone Shield -- mitigation reduced from 40% to 20%.
6) Icebound Fortitude – now reduces damage by 20% instead of 50%. The amount of damage reduced increases with bonus Defense (to about 35% for 540 Defense, but it can go higher). The stun immunity is intended to be its primary role in PvP.
7) Frost Presence -- bonus armor increased from 60 to 80% and magic damage reduction increased from 5 to 15%. We wanted to reduce the effectiveness of cooldowns but bring up base mitigation to reduce damage spikiness.
8) Corpse Explosion -- damage increased substantially, added 5 sec cooldown, and changed cost to 40 runic power.
9) Heart Strike – we overhauled this ability. It no longer has a haste debuff but will now be able to strike two targets like a cleave. It still hits for more than Blood Strike, but you can still use Blood Strike if e.g. you don’t want to break CC.
10) Horn of Winter -- now has no cost and grants 10 runic power in addition to its stat buff, but has a 30 sec cooldown.
11) Night of the Dead -- now grants 40/70% passive area spell avoidance to your pet in addition to its current effects.
12) Outbreak – this talent no longer receive bonus damage from Pestilence. The bonus from Plague Strike and Blood Boil has been increased slightly.
13) Bloody Strikes – the bonus damage from Pestilence has been moved here to help Blood AE slightly.
14) Pestilence -- no longer has a 10 sec cooldown.
15) Raise Dead -- now split into two spells: Raise Dead now raises a ghoul or pet ghoul (if talented). Raise Ally now raises a fallen party member (at no reagent cost).
16) New runeforge rune -- Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle (two-handed only) now grants 25 Defense and 2% Stamina.
17) Shadow of Death -- duration reduced from 45 seconds to 25 seconds.
18) Unholy Blight, Dancing Rune Weapon and Hungering Cold – cost reduced from 60 to 40 runic power.
19) Vampiric Blood -- in addition to its current effects, also adds 20% health temporarily.
20) Will of the Necropolis -- now reduces the damage of any attack that takes the DK below 35% health by 5 /10/15% instead of boosting armor when wounded,
21) Many death knight glyphs have been changed. In many cases the negative consequences were removed.
22) New death knight sigils are now available, primarily from vendors, including a tanking-oriented sigil.


Original Source

I'll let the pros run with it. A few of them do look like they're aimed at boosting Defense skill for DKs, which should make gearing up for Heroics and Raids a bit easier.

EDIT: If there was any confusion, the [2H only] Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle adds 25 Defense skill, not 25 Defense rating.

Edited, Dec 10th 2008 3:25pm by tabstopper
#2 Dec 10 2008 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
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if heart aka cleave aka win strike goes live, im rolling blood day of patch

thats why i like frost better, is because it got strong hits and decent aoe



make blood have decent aoe too, and i like the blood tree better then frost honestly

will hafta wait n see i guess
#3 Dec 10 2008 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
HS Cleave does indeed seem to be made of pure win 0_o
#4 Dec 10 2008 at 11:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Assuming that WotN still reduces the cooldown on AMS, my build will be incredibly sexy for PvP, even more than it is right now.

Oh god, the crazy potential my build just got for a 5v5 team of feral/warrior/DK/healer/healer is ridiculous.
#5 Dec 10 2008 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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I dont think there's a single thing in there I dont like.

GIEF TANK SIGIL!
#6 Dec 10 2008 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Rasen wrote:
I dont think there's a single thing in there I dont like.

GIEF TANK SIGIL!

IBF, Rune Strike </3
#7 Dec 10 2008 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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tabstopper wrote:

EDIT: If there was any confusion, the [2H only] Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle adds 25 Defense skill, not 25 Defense rating.



Is 25 defense skill better or worse than 25 defense rating?

At first I saw the nerfs to bone armor and IBF and was mad, but reading through the rest of the changes made me happy again.
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#8 Dec 10 2008 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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Ailitardif wrote:
Is 25 defense skill better or worse than 25 defense rating?

Way, way better. Each point of Defense Skill takes 4.92 Defense Rating at level 80.

So at level 80, the rune would be equivalent to ~123 Defense Rating and +2% stamina.
#9 Dec 10 2008 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
Rasen wrote:
I dont think there's a single thing in there I dont like.

GIEF TANK SIGIL!

IBF, Rune Strike </3


From a tank perspective, they've buffed Rune Strike. It now does more threat than before. Lower damage, but that doesn't particularly bother me. They claimed it was always intended to be a tank ability. With this change, it now truely becomes one.

And again IBF, definite nerf, but the tradeoff to better mitigation from Frost Presence makes this more win IMO. Passive mitigation > active mitigation. As an Unholy tank, in order to achieve optimum mitigation, I'd have to have Bone Shield up for as long as I could (glyph not so much optional as mandatory) then use IBF once it went down. This still left a gap where I had no cooldown protecting me. Sure I can take hits like this anyway, but this is the moment some healers don't like where we can get unlucky and take a stream of hits and suffer a health spike. As Frost that window is even larger. I could imagine raid MTs being forced to spec into Bone Shield if this wasnt changed.

It's all good. All of it.

Edited, Dec 10th 2008 5:54pm by Rasen
#10 Dec 10 2008 at 3:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Rasen wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Rasen wrote:
I dont think there's a single thing in there I dont like.

GIEF TANK SIGIL!

IBF, Rune Strike </3


From a tank perspective, they've buffed Rune Strike. It now does more threat than before. Lower damage, but that doesn't particularly bother me. They claimed it was always intended to be a tank ability. With this change, it now truely becomes one.

And again IBF, definite nerf, but the tradeoff to better mitigation from Frost Presence makes this more win IMO. Passive mitigation > active mitigation. As an Unholy tank, in order to achieve optimum mitigation, I'd have to have Bone Shield up for as long as I could (glyph not so much optional as mandatory) then use IBF once it went down. This still left a gap where I had no cooldown protecting me. Sure I can take hits like this anyway, but this is the moment some healers don't like where we can get unlucky and take a stream of hits and suffer a health spike. As Frost that window is even larger. I could imagine raid MTs being forced to spec into Bone Shield if this wasnt changed.

It's all good. All of it.

Edited, Dec 10th 2008 5:54pm by Rasen

You misunderstood my post. I realize it's better for you, but worse for me, who relies on IBF in PvP.
#11 Dec 10 2008 at 3:25 PM Rating: Excellent
Meh, from an Unholy dps/pvp point of view, this all seems like nerf. :(
#12 Dec 10 2008 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Warchief Tyrandor wrote:
Meh, from an Unholy dps/pvp point of view, this all seems like nerf. :(

Unholy isn't as strong in PvP as everyone makes it out to be, TBH. I don't know why people have the idea that it's "the" spec for PvP. The only strong points are the ghoul and AMZ. IMO Frost and Blood are much stronger with the talents they have available. Howling Blast is much, much stronger of a PvP ability than Scourge Strike is, as it can be used from 30 yards away while you kite someone.

Frost can essentially kite someone til you have 130 RP and full rune cooldowns, then run in and power someone down with Oblit/BS/FS.

Edited, Dec 10th 2008 4:25pm by Theophany
#13 Dec 10 2008 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
Frost can essentially kite someone til you have 130 RP and full rune cooldowns, then run in death grip and power someone down with Oblit/BS/FS.


FTFY
#14 Dec 10 2008 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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MentalFrog wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Frost can essentially kite someone til you have 130 RP and full rune cooldowns, then run in death grip and power someone down with Oblit/BS/FS.


FTFY

I save DG for bringing people to me when I'm getting kited. 25 secs is a fairly long cooldown for what's essentially our only reconnect.

And that's talented. Smiley: tongue
#15 Dec 10 2008 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
MentalFrog wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Frost can essentially kite someone til you have 130 RP and full rune cooldowns, then run in death grip and power someone down with Oblit/BS/FS.


FTFY

I save DG for bringing people to me when I'm getting kited. 25 secs is a fairly long cooldown for what's essentially our only reconnect.

And that's talented. Smiley: tongue
Yeah but I just find it ironically funny to kite someone and suddenly pull a 'Scorpion' to bring them in for the kill.
#16 Dec 10 2008 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
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2,396 posts
MentalFrog wrote:
Yeah but I just find it ironically funny to kite someone and suddenly pull a 'Scorpion' to bring them in for the kill.

Death Knights that use a lot of their abilities "just because they can" are at least half of the reason people are calling us Death-tards at the moment.
#17 Dec 10 2008 at 8:05 PM Rating: Decent
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It's looking more like I'll be changing to blood.
#18 Dec 11 2008 at 1:13 AM Rating: Good
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Blood looks like it'll be the un-challenged god of grinding levels for DKs... though the buffs will be a big deal at 80 too. The HP returns are already big, doubling them will only go further, and Heart Strike looks like it'll be very attractive. Massive AoEing with little HP loss will ensue. Vampiric Blood as a sort of "Last Stand" adds another cooldown to deep Blood tanks, and Dancing Rune Weapon @ 40 RP just seems wrong.

Incidentally, 25 Defense Skill = 3% pure avoidence (1% Miss, 1% Dodge, 1% Parry) so that rune would still be a loss of 1% pure avoidence -- and it converts 2% from the advantageous Parry to less desirable forms. Without taking Diminishing Returns into account of course.
#19 Dec 11 2008 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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Losie wrote:
Incidentally, 25 Defense Skill = 3% pure avoidence (1% Miss, 1% Dodge, 1% Parry) so that rune would still be a loss of 1% pure avoidence -- and it converts 2% from the advantageous Parry to less desirable forms. Without taking Diminishing Returns into account of course.

Don't forget that the 25 Defense Skill will also help to scale the mitigation on Icebound Fortitude (if the mitigation vs. defense curve is linear from 400 defense on, I think it would be ~3.6%).

My guess is that you would still end up losing out on net mitigation/avoidance, but that a smart player could leverage it for overall gains by changing around other gear.

Edited, Dec 14th 2008 7:52pm by tabstopper
#20 Dec 11 2008 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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Well i have been Blood since day 1. So it just makes me much happier to see some of these changes. Althought the IBF and Rune strike feel like Blizz stole something from me. IBF was awesome help for tanking, and Rune Strike although better for tanking now, was fine before. But i guess it just got abused too much in PvP like IBF. All in all i say the good out-weights the bad. The heart strike change and increased health back is really going to be nice, and Vampiric Blood looks like it might be worth taking up again.

Dancing Rune weapon was only 50 runic power to start with if im not mistaken, so 10 less initial cost will only allow it to be out for an extra 2 seconds if used at 100 Runic power. Which i guess is enough time for another double HS/Obli/Rune Strike.
#21 Dec 11 2008 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Incidentally, 25 Defense Skill = 3% pure avoidence (1% Miss, 1% Dodge, 1% Parry) so that rune would still be a loss of 1% pure avoidence -- and it converts 2% from the advantageous Parry to less desirable forms. Without taking Diminishing Returns into account of course.

I agree to some extent. Basically this isnt the be all and end all tank rune, but at least now neither is Swordshattering.

DKs are having trouble keeping def capped. Apparently it's easier to hit 540 in crafted blues than in Naxx epics. It seems silly to me to have to pass up on your tank epics because you're in danger of losing your crit immunity.

I think SSG will be a good rune to help us maintain cap (and I hope the sigil has some def on it too) but if you have no trouble getting there, I guess it comes down to 1% parry vs 2% stamina.
#22 Dec 12 2008 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Death Knights that use a lot of their abilities "just because they can" are at least half of the reason people are Dilbrt is calling us Death-tards at the moment.


FTFY.

As for the changes... Icebound Fortitude was too great a nerf. Down to 30% would have made more sense, 20% makes the mitigation a toy ability. For this level of nerf I'd expect it to also clear Stuns. I'm a bit disappointed simply because its one of the only ways I currently have to survive NX25 mistakes when I catch random AoE and the healers are busy.

I am happy with the Heart Strike change but I get the horrible feeling they're nerfing the single-target damage. That will have a knock-on effect of reducing Blood raid DPS which is currently where it needs to be. If they dont reduce the weapon damage percentage to 50% which I suspect they will, or nerf the bonus damage, I'll be happy. The Haste thingy was only ever a gimmick they tacked on, I'm happy to see it gone.

The other fixes are just that; fixes. Quality of life and play improvements; AoE mitigation on pets was absolutely vital (although why its only 70% I have no idea); please also note it says "Avoidance", Im hoping that means Mages wont be able to Frost Nova the little guy anymore. The Raise Ally thing is also rather tasty and a fun gimmick for Arenas, if they allow it.

The DK Glyphs needed an overhaul too, most of them sucked and Im hoping for some nice boosts. My first guess would be the Disease damage reduction nerfed off the Obliterate Glyph. Corpse Explosion; about bloody time, that was a joke ability for far too long. Horn of Winter, same, a necessary fix. Same for Pestilence, the cooldown was never necessary.

Overall, a bunch of good fixes, one slightly over-the-top nerf, and the Sigils on the way should finally give me something to replace the starting Sigil.
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