Was in Nexxus last night on my priest. Had a lvl 70 DK tank, hunter, boomkin, enh shamman. Tank was unholy. Since most of the pulls are AoE, I have a question. How does a DK pull caster and melee mobs and hold them? I know he said he was using DnD but as the healer I was always pulling aggro. I had mobs on me constantly. The rest of the group didn't know how to focus fire either.
I have a 66 DK and I don't want to look like this guy did. So for those of you who tank, what do you use to pull, grab, and maintain aggro when you're tanking. I know about frost presence and DnD but what else and when?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
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DK Tanking - An AOE questionFollow
DND -> PS -> IT -> Pest -> BB -> DS -> PS -> IT to open is nice n basic
anytime u refresh diseases replace a blood strike/heart strike with a pestilence
howling blast if you got it as often as u can
death grip casters to u, strangulate if you need to, mind freeze isnt a bad choice either
when your primary dps target is startin to die, start on the next one... dont wait until it dies (like 10% usually is fine)
use your tanking cd's liberally
gear/spec appropriately
thats good enough for a starter kit of tankinh
Edited, Dec 9th 2008 4:38pm by mongoosexcore
anytime u refresh diseases replace a blood strike/heart strike with a pestilence
howling blast if you got it as often as u can
death grip casters to u, strangulate if you need to, mind freeze isnt a bad choice either
when your primary dps target is startin to die, start on the next one... dont wait until it dies (like 10% usually is fine)
use your tanking cd's liberally
gear/spec appropriately
thats good enough for a starter kit of tankinh
Edited, Dec 9th 2008 4:38pm by mongoosexcore
Ok, so spreading the "love" I mean diseases puts enough threat onto the tank to hold their attention? So what about the "pet". Same mob as the tank or have it offtank a mob. And will you need to refresh DnD or should the mobs be dead before then ?
and thanks
and thanks
pest itself does damage, and blood boil is good for aoe threat, so it holds aggro pretty well if your dps is focusing on your stuff (aka mark your targets)
refresh dnd? not a bad idea but try it out and see if you need the extra threat
as for your pet, its too squishy to offtank in instances, have it follow your focus (and stun mobs when u can to help healer)... but since i got the feelin if you mention pet your unholy, unholy blight plus all the other stuff should have you generating plenty of threat
worst comes to worst, tab + death coil puts some aggro on some mobs
its not hard, just give it a run or two to feel it out.... your taunt is a very short cd, so even if your healer pulls a mob... you can easily get it back
just dont be lazy, and BAM you should be fine brah ^_-
refresh dnd? not a bad idea but try it out and see if you need the extra threat
as for your pet, its too squishy to offtank in instances, have it follow your focus (and stun mobs when u can to help healer)... but since i got the feelin if you mention pet your unholy, unholy blight plus all the other stuff should have you generating plenty of threat
worst comes to worst, tab + death coil puts some aggro on some mobs
its not hard, just give it a run or two to feel it out.... your taunt is a very short cd, so even if your healer pulls a mob... you can easily get it back
just dont be lazy, and BAM you should be fine brah ^_-
One other thing to throw in, as I agree with the comments on the rest of the replies, is that I try to make the caster the first kill. If there are more than one, I normally strangulate the 2nd and DG the first to pull them both to me. If it's a complete caster group, I prefer to drop DnD on top of all of them as I run in, as long as there is no danger of pulling another group. That way, even if I can't get melee range on them, I still get my DnD and my diseases on them all from pestilence.
I don't normally refresh DnD, as by the time it's off CD, I already have my 3 diseases up on all the other mobs, the biggest key I can tell you, is make sure that you use pestilence whenever it's up. Every time it spreads diseases off your main target, it refreshes the diseases on the targets it hits. That way, when the first target is about to die and you hit Pestilence, the next target doesn't need diseases refreshed and you can use your attacks more liberally due to more runes being available.
The biggest thing I've found with tanking as a DK is that I don't have to focus on the kill target as much due to DnD, my diseases, and auto attack pulling so much threat. That gives you much more time to tab through or click onto an errant target and DG or taunt them back onto you.
I don't normally refresh DnD, as by the time it's off CD, I already have my 3 diseases up on all the other mobs, the biggest key I can tell you, is make sure that you use pestilence whenever it's up. Every time it spreads diseases off your main target, it refreshes the diseases on the targets it hits. That way, when the first target is about to die and you hit Pestilence, the next target doesn't need diseases refreshed and you can use your attacks more liberally due to more runes being available.
The biggest thing I've found with tanking as a DK is that I don't have to focus on the kill target as much due to DnD, my diseases, and auto attack pulling so much threat. That gives you much more time to tab through or click onto an errant target and DG or taunt them back onto you.
^^ What the others said ...
And the group needs to know how to focus fire. It's as simple as targeting the tank and hitting "F".
And the group needs to know how to focus fire. It's as simple as targeting the tank and hitting "F".
I've done nexus and UK as unholy tank. I only use DnD if I'm not holding enough aggro (happens more in Nexus due to 5 at a time pulls). Pestilence and BB are enough to hold aggro for the most part. I save DeathGrip in case one runs off to the healer.
thank you for all the replies. My level 74 healer is greatful as well. I hate having to tank in cloth..lol
As for my DK, i'll definately be using these.
As for my DK, i'll definately be using these.
The fact he was Unholy makes it worse that he wasn't able to hold AoE aggro. In addition to the methods listed already, we have Unholy Blight. While not doing a lot of damage on it's own, UB in conjunction with Pest>BB is really nice AoE threat. I usually only use DnD on the pull.
In his defense (although he does sound like an idiot) when the rest of the group are unable to focus fire, aggro can bounce around. the tank is never sure which mob is in danger of breaking. A seasoned tank can deal with it by just evening out his threat amongst the mobs, but a newer player tends to panic, frantically tab-targets around, blows all his cooldowns unnecessarily and generally makes a bad situation worse.
Also,(in response to Mongoose) I use SS as my main FU strike rather than DS. I know there's theory somewhere that says you get more threat from DS due to the heal, but it really doesn't seem to make much of a difference IMO and I'm happier with the damage from SS.
In his defense (although he does sound like an idiot) when the rest of the group are unable to focus fire, aggro can bounce around. the tank is never sure which mob is in danger of breaking. A seasoned tank can deal with it by just evening out his threat amongst the mobs, but a newer player tends to panic, frantically tab-targets around, blows all his cooldowns unnecessarily and generally makes a bad situation worse.
Also,(in response to Mongoose) I use SS as my main FU strike rather than DS. I know there's theory somewhere that says you get more threat from DS due to the heal, but it really doesn't seem to make much of a difference IMO and I'm happier with the damage from SS.
i mention DS for people, particularly in pugs, not from a threat point of view
but it is free healing
i rather cut my dps a smidge and make myself live a lil longer on my own accord
but it is free healing
i rather cut my dps a smidge and make myself live a lil longer on my own accord
As a blood tank, I usually open the fight with a DnD/DG combo, Stack diseases, Pestilence, and procede to whack at my target. I try to make a habbit to spam DS as my FU ability to not only make more death runes, but the extra healing helps the healer out some (atm im getting 1.3k-1.9k on crits). I Blood Boil from time to time if i get bored spamming other stuff. All in all, I very rarely have trouble with aggro, i do not refresh my DND and i almost never use it on bosses unless he spawns trash mobs. I also make sure i tell everyone the kill order (Skull, X, Star, Circle), and explain that if they dont follow kill order ill let them die. DK tanking is alot of fun, so im very happy to see a few of the changes for the upcoming patch.
As unholy if he cant even hold healer threat, he was probably in blood presence with subversion 3/3, at least i hope so. its impossible to not hold healer threat. Just with diseases thats 700 tps or something.
I start every fight DnD -> grip -> IT -> PS -> Pest -> UB
with 2/2 dirge and icy touch glyph you get enough rp to do UB on your opening rotation, but you need to be careful cause it leaves you rune starved if you need an IBF early on.
After that I basically just aoe dps while keeping bone shield or ibf up when possible. If i'm getting particularly hard i'll use death strike instead of scourge, but only because hate isnt an issue ever.
Guy doesnt know how to play.
One small side note, if a mob wasnt landing in his DnD or something that might be why the healer pulled aggro, if thats what happened then the best way to try and avoid that is unholy blight. UB is great for picking up adds, and I try to always keep it up if I'm anticipating any kinds of adds.
Edited, Dec 11th 2008 9:16pm by EnthalpyTheBurninator
I start every fight DnD -> grip -> IT -> PS -> Pest -> UB
with 2/2 dirge and icy touch glyph you get enough rp to do UB on your opening rotation, but you need to be careful cause it leaves you rune starved if you need an IBF early on.
After that I basically just aoe dps while keeping bone shield or ibf up when possible. If i'm getting particularly hard i'll use death strike instead of scourge, but only because hate isnt an issue ever.
Guy doesnt know how to play.
One small side note, if a mob wasnt landing in his DnD or something that might be why the healer pulled aggro, if thats what happened then the best way to try and avoid that is unholy blight. UB is great for picking up adds, and I try to always keep it up if I'm anticipating any kinds of adds.
Edited, Dec 11th 2008 9:16pm by EnthalpyTheBurninator
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wildsimian wrote:
^^ What the others said ...
And the group needs to know how to focus fire. It's as simple as targeting the tank and hitting "F".
And the group needs to know how to focus fire. It's as simple as targeting the tank and hitting "F".
Actually its not quite that simple, as the tank may be switching targets for any number of reasons. You should either use the lucky charms and specify a kill order or designate a main assist who the group should target and hit F.
EnthalpyTheBurninator
IBF glyph is greatest thing ever, free IBF every minute no cost. IF your trying to tank as a DK its a must imo. Being able to hit it reguardless of whether or not you have runic power is hot.
Quote:
but you need to be careful cause it leaves you rune starved if you need an IBF early on.
IBF glyph is greatest thing ever, free IBF every minute no cost. IF your trying to tank as a DK its a must imo. Being able to hit it reguardless of whether or not you have runic power is hot.
Yea !!! more. I've only tanked once on my DK, since he isn't my main. My priest is my main and I'm trying to get her to 80. I pug everything. Thinking back on the fight I think one of the ancillary issues was I was a 74 compared to the rest being 70. They probably thought I could heal them all without thinking about it....stupid pugs.
Next time I'll stick to my rule of letting the dumb dps die...
Agains, thanks for the replies....
making better DKs since Nov 13, 2008
Next time I'll stick to my rule of letting the dumb dps die...
Agains, thanks for the replies....
making better DKs since Nov 13, 2008
Have another question on DK tanking. Was on my lvl 61 Blood spec'd DK. Got to tank Blood Furnace. Used DnD. Had a stupid pally that was Ret but really wanted to play tank. Gah.....
anyway, when using DnD, do you guys usually cast it where you stand and pull the mobs to you, or do you cast it "onto" the mobs and charge forth ??? Since CC has sort of become the thing of the past, even in Outland, I don't know if it really matters how you engage the mobs. As a druid I usually used FFF to pull to me, so that is what I'm used to.
Sorry if this seems obvious, but I haven't run with any other DK tanks except that one guy. I want to be a good tank, not a moron.
anyway, when using DnD, do you guys usually cast it where you stand and pull the mobs to you, or do you cast it "onto" the mobs and charge forth ??? Since CC has sort of become the thing of the past, even in Outland, I don't know if it really matters how you engage the mobs. As a druid I usually used FFF to pull to me, so that is what I'm used to.
Sorry if this seems obvious, but I haven't run with any other DK tanks except that one guy. I want to be a good tank, not a moron.
When I tank I do a few different things depending on the makeup of the pull.
If there is a caster, I always try to make it the first kill. I will drop DnD right in front of me, step into it and DG the caster to me (or Strangulate if you prefer and it's off CD)
2 casters means I will strangulate one, DG the other onto my DnD.
3+ casters I will just DnD on top of them and run in and start my rotation. Most groups are close enough without silencing them for your pest to still spread the diseases. You can pop your personal anti-magic bubble if you want to help the healers with that initial blast of magic damage.
If they are all melee, I like to set it right next to them, on the side towards me and use IT to pull them so I can save my DG and Taunt for if adds occur or something happens wrong on the pull.
The reason I never drop it on top of melee is even if you're quick, they normally get to the very edge of it before you are able to get up to them and that means some might move off it. Obviously your diseases being spread with Pest will make this a moot point, but it's better to put it in between you so they are running onto it as you are from the other side.
If there is a caster, I always try to make it the first kill. I will drop DnD right in front of me, step into it and DG the caster to me (or Strangulate if you prefer and it's off CD)
2 casters means I will strangulate one, DG the other onto my DnD.
3+ casters I will just DnD on top of them and run in and start my rotation. Most groups are close enough without silencing them for your pest to still spread the diseases. You can pop your personal anti-magic bubble if you want to help the healers with that initial blast of magic damage.
If they are all melee, I like to set it right next to them, on the side towards me and use IT to pull them so I can save my DG and Taunt for if adds occur or something happens wrong on the pull.
The reason I never drop it on top of melee is even if you're quick, they normally get to the very edge of it before you are able to get up to them and that means some might move off it. Obviously your diseases being spread with Pest will make this a moot point, but it's better to put it in between you so they are running onto it as you are from the other side.
speaking about moron tanks...
I was in a Nexus normal run with a Frost DK tank lvl 73, with quite some def/high sta gear...
He INSISTED on using the freezing skill, so we couldnt aoe
I tanked every non heroic in wotlk as frost, never had ANY trouble...
For Frost i advice not using Death and decay to much tbh
My magic pull rotation is:
Icy touch on main target, Death strike on main target, Pestilence, (Critbuff if its off cooldown), Howling blast, Blood boil
This from my experience gives alot more threat than the runes 'wasted' on DnD would give, also by the time u cast blood boil, ur first runes will be popping back up, not leavin u with the rune-lack gap DnD tends to create as frost.
That said, i think i had a few wipes on big aoe pulls, just cause caster mobs tend to not like walking to you, except from that its a magic rotation
I was in a Nexus normal run with a Frost DK tank lvl 73, with quite some def/high sta gear...
He INSISTED on using the freezing skill, so we couldnt aoe
I tanked every non heroic in wotlk as frost, never had ANY trouble...
For Frost i advice not using Death and decay to much tbh
My magic pull rotation is:
Icy touch on main target, Death strike on main target, Pestilence, (Critbuff if its off cooldown), Howling blast, Blood boil
This from my experience gives alot more threat than the runes 'wasted' on DnD would give, also by the time u cast blood boil, ur first runes will be popping back up, not leavin u with the rune-lack gap DnD tends to create as frost.
That said, i think i had a few wipes on big aoe pulls, just cause caster mobs tend to not like walking to you, except from that its a magic rotation
Marking is quite useful as others have said, but I really only mark the first 2 kills (unless there is a CC target - remember cc? :)
LOS pulling to group up casters and ranged mobs; another skill you want to make use of. Hit your first kill with IT, then run behind something, drop DnD when they get to you. Though your DPS has to wait a sec to open up.
The good thing about DnD is its so obvious you can use that as the signal for DPS to go.
If another DK is using DnD for DPS tell him to knock it off, or let him die;)
With DnD and Diseases spread via Pestilence I have never had a problem with threat.
Oh, and make sure you gear for tanking when you wanna tank - I am convinced that 90% of the perception problem DK tanks are having is due to guys not gearing properly.
Cheers!
LOS pulling to group up casters and ranged mobs; another skill you want to make use of. Hit your first kill with IT, then run behind something, drop DnD when they get to you. Though your DPS has to wait a sec to open up.
The good thing about DnD is its so obvious you can use that as the signal for DPS to go.
If another DK is using DnD for DPS tell him to knock it off, or let him die;)
With DnD and Diseases spread via Pestilence I have never had a problem with threat.
Oh, and make sure you gear for tanking when you wanna tank - I am convinced that 90% of the perception problem DK tanks are having is due to guys not gearing properly.
Cheers!
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