So I'm about 2.5 bars from hitting 80, and I've got a lot of work ahead of me to get ready for Naxx. I really haven't replaced much of my level 70 gear aside from my trinkets and cloak. I still have a lot of questing to do in The Stormpeaks and Icecrown to pick up those quest rewards, and a lot of instances/heroics to do. I'm thinking of using this as my pre-raid build.
It gives me quite a bit of flexibility with minimal downtime. The one thing I'm not sure of is if going down Resto to get Intensity and OoC is worth what I have to give up in balance to get it. It basically means that I have to give up IIS and Nature's Splendor. I know that Eclipse is probably of minimal use while questing, but I have to say that I've really enjoyed the talent. It's nice to have something that breaks up the monotony of either SF or Wrath spamming.
I'm also curious to hear from anyone that's already raided/raiding Naxx if they've found that then need Intensity to finish fights without going OOM. About the only thing that I'm planning on changing for my raiding build is to switch the points from Owlkin Frenzy into IIS or IFF (if we don't have a shadow priest for misery).
Anyway, I would appreciate any comments/feedback that are offered.
Thanks,
Camel
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Almost my same spec, but instead of dreamstate and owlkin frenzie I have IIS/IFF. I've cleared naxx 10 and 25 and never had mana problems with intensity alone. I also like eclipse to mix things up.. my rotation goes IS > Wrath until IS refresh and repeat, when eclipse procs MF > SF until the buff wheres off
Thanks for the response. I don't know why, but I hadn't really considered relocating the points in Dreamstate. I tried out my proposed build last night, running regular Strat and HoL. I definitely didn't have mana problems with both Dreamstate and Intensity. In fact, I don't think I even had to Innervate myself once. Although given how easy the regular instances are I'm hesitant to commit to dropping Dreamstate at least until I've had a chance to run a few heroics.
I definitely feel strapped for points, as there are a lot of good talents in the balance tree. If I was only raiding, I'd be tempted to give up the 3 points in Earth and Moon, as CoE is a better overall debuff. However, 13% damage increase while soloing is hard to give up.
I'm also tempted to skip Starfall to pick up Nature's Splendor, since I think it's a pretty big mana drain. I don't really see myself using this on boss fights unless I have tons of extra mana. I'm curious if anyone else is doing this.
I definitely feel strapped for points, as there are a lot of good talents in the balance tree. If I was only raiding, I'd be tempted to give up the 3 points in Earth and Moon, as CoE is a better overall debuff. However, 13% damage increase while soloing is hard to give up.
I'm also tempted to skip Starfall to pick up Nature's Splendor, since I think it's a pretty big mana drain. I don't really see myself using this on boss fights unless I have tons of extra mana. I'm curious if anyone else is doing this.
Do not give up Earth and Moon, it's also an increase in your spell power. Also don't skip out on starfall for natures splendor. For the amount of time you add with nature's splendor starfall on a single target boss fight will put out more damage than the extra tic from nature's splendor.
Gyfdruid's Armory
I went that route. I think it's a pretty good raid spec, as well as 5 man. I just could not find a really good way to get 3/3 on Intensity. So I went with OoC. It's very streaky tho =( There will literally be 4 cast "free", then a streak of 1000000 where it does not proc. Either way my mana does well, however that's just Heroic and a Sartharion clear I'm referring to, we got our 1st Naxx coming up Wed & Thur.
Not really sure how my build matches up, but I do really like it as a utility spec. I miss Typhoon, and would love to have 2/2 on Master Shapeshifter... but again just could not find a way to get all of them.
Oh edit***
I love starfall to be honest. Those fights where standing still just is not possible, pop that, pop the Trents, DoT it up, and Wrath when possible will still net you some decent DPS. It's a lot of mana true, hopefully they will lower the MP cost in a patch.
Edited, Dec 15th 2008 5:21pm by GYFFORD
I went that route. I think it's a pretty good raid spec, as well as 5 man. I just could not find a really good way to get 3/3 on Intensity. So I went with OoC. It's very streaky tho =( There will literally be 4 cast "free", then a streak of 1000000 where it does not proc. Either way my mana does well, however that's just Heroic and a Sartharion clear I'm referring to, we got our 1st Naxx coming up Wed & Thur.
Not really sure how my build matches up, but I do really like it as a utility spec. I miss Typhoon, and would love to have 2/2 on Master Shapeshifter... but again just could not find a way to get all of them.
Oh edit***
Quote:
I'm also tempted to skip Starfall to pick up Nature's Splendor, since I think it's a pretty big mana drain. I don't really see myself using this on boss fights unless I have tons of extra mana. I'm curious if anyone else is doing this.
I love starfall to be honest. Those fights where standing still just is not possible, pop that, pop the Trents, DoT it up, and Wrath when possible will still net you some decent DPS. It's a lot of mana true, hopefully they will lower the MP cost in a patch.
Edited, Dec 15th 2008 5:21pm by GYFFORD
GYFFORD wrote:
Gyfdruid's Armory
I went that route. I think it's a pretty good raid spec, as well as 5 man. I just could not find a really good way to get 3/3 on Intensity. So I went with OoC. It's very streaky tho =( There will literally be 4 cast "free", then a streak of 1000000 where it does not proc. Either way my mana does well, however that's just Heroic and a Sartharion clear I'm referring to, we got our 1st Naxx coming up Wed & Thur.
Not really sure how my build matches up, but I do really like it as a utility spec. I miss Typhoon, and would love to have 2/2 on Master Shapeshifter... but again just could not find a way to get all of them.
Oh edit***
I love starfall to be honest. Those fights where standing still just is not possible, pop that, pop the Trents, DoT it up, and Wrath when possible will still net you some decent DPS. It's a lot of mana true, hopefully they will lower the MP cost in a patch.
Edited, Dec 15th 2008 5:21pm by GYFFORD
I went that route. I think it's a pretty good raid spec, as well as 5 man. I just could not find a really good way to get 3/3 on Intensity. So I went with OoC. It's very streaky tho =( There will literally be 4 cast "free", then a streak of 1000000 where it does not proc. Either way my mana does well, however that's just Heroic and a Sartharion clear I'm referring to, we got our 1st Naxx coming up Wed & Thur.
Not really sure how my build matches up, but I do really like it as a utility spec. I miss Typhoon, and would love to have 2/2 on Master Shapeshifter... but again just could not find a way to get all of them.
Oh edit***
Quote:
I'm also tempted to skip Starfall to pick up Nature's Splendor, since I think it's a pretty big mana drain. I don't really see myself using this on boss fights unless I have tons of extra mana. I'm curious if anyone else is doing this.
I love starfall to be honest. Those fights where standing still just is not possible, pop that, pop the Trents, DoT it up, and Wrath when possible will still net you some decent DPS. It's a lot of mana true, hopefully they will lower the MP cost in a patch.
Edited, Dec 15th 2008 5:21pm by GYFFORD
Gale winds without typhoon? Typhoon is awesome to stop casting and great DPS when AOEing.
Wrath spam will almost always net you more DPS than starfall spam. What i do with my specc is i have 3/3 eclipse and i will use wrath until it procs and switch to starfire until it procs going back and forth all the while keeping faery fire and insect swarm up.
Improved moonfire is garbage, i would lose that and go for master shapeshifter.
Here is my specc. With that im easily pulling in 2000+ DPS in heroics even in my crappy gear.
Notinterested, no intensity, no dreamstate (with the no intensity this question is a poof-one), how do you not go out of mana on longer fights? Only potting can hardly be enough and adding to that only the mana return from the Moonkin talent and the Omen of Clarity procs can not be enough (in theory that is).
Just wondering.
Just wondering.
Quote:
Wrath spam will almost always net you more DPS than starfall spam.
This is false. I'm going to assume you meant starfire. But once again this is false. Over on EJ if I can find the thread there is a simulation of dps vs different eclipse procs with different rotations. The one that ended up putting out more dps was wrath until SF Eclipse proc and then SF.
Even so, you're in form crit isn't high enough to actually benefit from casting starfire for crits. Once it reaches around 30% or higher self buffed you'll see your dps increase by quite a bit using SF.
My personal rotation now until my crit strike is high enough is SF until wrath eclipse, wrath for 15 seconds and then SF again.
Immunios wrote:
Notinterested, no intensity, no dreamstate (with the no intensity this question is a poof-one), how do you not go out of mana on longer fights? Only potting can hardly be enough and adding to that only the mana return from the Moonkin talent and the Omen of Clarity procs can not be enough (in theory that is).
Just wondering.
Just wondering.
Being an alch i tend to rely alot more on Pots than i should but so far without either of them the only time i have ran OOM on a boss fight is when i had to battle res a healer or when i have to throw some heals around. When my guild starts doing naxx regularly i plan on picking up one or the other, but when i did patchwerk recently when the fight was finished i had some mana to spare. But then again i am almost always with a pally so BoW helps too.
ArexLovesPie wrote:
Quote:
Wrath spam will almost always net you more DPS than starfall spam.
This is false. I'm going to assume you meant starfire. But once again this is false. Over on EJ if I can find the thread there is a simulation of dps vs different eclipse procs with different rotations. The one that ended up putting out more dps was wrath until SF Eclipse proc and then SF.
Even so, you're in form crit isn't high enough to actually benefit from casting starfire for crits. Once it reaches around 30% or higher self buffed you'll see your dps increase by quite a bit using SF.
My personal rotation now until my crit strike is high enough is SF until wrath eclipse, wrath for 15 seconds and then SF again.
If you would notice he dont have eclipse. Wrath SPAM > starfall SPAM. Obviously like i said in my post doing wrath until eclipse and switching is better but thats not spam now is it?
Quote:
Gale winds without typhoon? Typhoon is awesome to stop casting and great DPS when AOEing.
I admit I do miss Typhoon, I had it, loved it, and now raiding/5 man instances I got rid of it.
Honestly, when can you really use it without the AoE tank complaining about the push back. Bosses, yeah it's a IC spell, but IMO it's not worth the losing OoC (Yes, I gave Typhoon up for OoC, that's why I mentioned it).
For AoE'ing I only use Hurricane. With OoC proc'ing off the ticks (as of now at least), I'd be silly not to pick up Gale Winds lol. No CD on Hurricane we're trash mob kings =D
Quote:
Improved moonfire is garbage, i would lose that and go for master shapeshifter.
As I said... there was just not enough talent points to go around =( I went Imp Moonfire since that's my opening move (well, after FF and IS). After MF crits, my next spell (Wrath) cast speed is increased thanks to Natures Grace. Before Wrath hits, I'm 1/4 into SF casting, Wrath hits, mob gets Earth & Moon debuff, then my SF lands for more damage. Eh, it might not be 100% correct thinking, but I like it
Edited, Dec 16th 2008 5:46pm by GYFFORD
Quote:
If you would notice he dont have eclipse. Wrath SPAM > starfall SPAM. Obviously like i said in my post doing wrath until eclipse and switching is better but thats not spam now is it?
Starfall spam is more damage done and higher dps than wrath. I ran myself in Rawr and my Wrath spam dps is 1336.11 dps and oom in 2m 11s, my Starfire spam dps is 1659.82 dps and oom in 3m 18s.
That is straight spam not utilizing the eclipse procs at all. Tell me your server and character name and I'll gladly run you and give you the results from Rawr for wrath/sf dps.
ArexLovesPie wrote:
Tell me your server and character name and I'll gladly run you and give you the results from Rawr for wrath/sf dps.
notinterested....
Do it or you're nothing :P
Edited, Dec 18th 2008 7:47am by Galenmoon
I just wanted to mention I took my first stab at 10 man Naxx last night, my friends needed an extra dps so I hopped in for the Anub Rhekan(sp) dude and we wiped three times but I was very happy to see that my dps did not fall below sub standard. In the first wipe he was around 80% I averaged 2500 dps with 275k damage done I was quite pleased. After the third wipe though my overall dps was around 2150 which I could easily handle.
GYFFORD wrote:
Quote:
Gale winds without typhoon? Typhoon is awesome to stop casting and great DPS when AOEing.
I admit I do miss Typhoon, I had it, loved it, and now raiding/5 man instances I got rid of it.
Honestly, when can you really use it without the AoE tank complaining about the push back. Bosses, yeah it's a IC spell, but IMO it's not worth the losing OoC (Yes, I gave Typhoon up for OoC, that's why I mentioned it).
For AoE'ing I only use Hurricane. With OoC proc'ing off the ticks (as of now at least), I'd be silly not to pick up Gale Winds lol. No CD on Hurricane we're trash mob kings =D
Quote:
Improved moonfire is garbage, i would lose that and go for master shapeshifter.
As I said... there was just not enough talent points to go around =( I went Imp Moonfire since that's my opening move (well, after FF and IS). After MF crits, my next spell (Wrath) cast speed is increased thanks to Natures Grace. Before Wrath hits, I'm 1/4 into SF casting, Wrath hits, mob gets Earth & Moon debuff, then my SF lands for more damage. Eh, it might not be 100% correct thinking, but I like it
Edited, Dec 16th 2008 5:46pm by GYFFORD
if you have a tank you can actually coordinate with, i.e. vent or their in talking range of you, typhoon is a great help, its another ******* button from another class :D, if your taking too much damage and healer isnt keeping up, a typhoon will give them a precious couple of seconds to heal the tank back up while the mobs run back to him instead of forcing the tank to use a CD
and ill admit to getting irritated with classes that like to randomly pushback, for 2 reasons
1. They RARELY know how to use it correctly and more often then not (in my experience) end up knocking them into aggro range of another pull
2. They almost always seem to use it when i JUST put consecrate down or blow a CD
Quote:
2. They almost always seem to use it when i JUST put consecrate down or blow a CD
But it also helps the tanks I run with I've been running with for a very long time and one of them is a good friend of mine irl. Half the time I use typhoon on pulls because I know it pisses the tanks off :D
Agreed. I had quite a bit of fun when I was spec'd for Typhoon, pissing off both the tank and melee DPS. It's annoying for tanks, but all they have to do is wait 2 seconds for the mob to run back to them. It royally screws melee DPS though, as you've likely knocked the mob out of melee range, and they'll have to reposition themselves to make sure they get behind the mob before getting cleaved or something.
For those of you that do want to keep Typhoon for instancing/raiding, you'll likely want to pick up the Glyph of Typhoon. IIRC it's going to buff the damage, but remove the knock back effect. For raiders, that's a win-win situation.
Edited, Dec 23rd 2008 2:27pm by CamelToad
For those of you that do want to keep Typhoon for instancing/raiding, you'll likely want to pick up the Glyph of Typhoon. IIRC it's going to buff the damage, but remove the knock back effect. For raiders, that's a win-win situation.
Edited, Dec 23rd 2008 2:27pm by CamelToad
These are my thoughts on this subject:
- IFF is a great talent, but if you have an SP in your raid, it's a waste.
- Typhoon is cool and a great PvP tool, but useless (if not annoying) in PvE, so, another waste.
- IMHO, Eclipse is a good talent to take, but there are still discussions (read maths) going on about if it is really good or not. All I have to say is: I took Eclipse, I like it, and my rotation is IS/W while Eclipse dont proc and MF/SF with the proc. I rarely go OOM with this rotation and Rawr says its a nice dps rotation for the equipment I have right now.
- Dreamstate/Intensity are great talents. But they are kinda situational. You will have to figure out if you need the mana or not, and if you do need, if you will pick one, another or both. I, for one, took 1 on Dreamstate, and 2 on Intensity.
- Treants is kinda...meh. I dont like it very much. I think its more of a PvP tool along the other talent that gives them chance to stun target than a PvE talent. But Rawr (and a lot of calculations around) says it may increase your dps for quite a bit (30 to 50 points, roughly).
- Celestial focus is pretty interesting. 3% haste may see not very much, but it actually is. I though that the reading was "take the haste rating you have, calculate 3% of it and add", but, actually, its a 3% increase, just like balance of power. Pretty interesting, if you ask me.
- There's that talent(forgot its freaking name) that diminishes your threat and increase the range you can cast spells. I think its pretty usefull in some raid bosses and 5man bosses that does some aoe dmg, but only near him. The diminished threat is always good too.
- Balance of Power...do I even have to talk about it? If you do PvE, you will have to pick it. Too much hit to ignore. Simple as that.
- I, for one, like starfall and I picked it in my build for the gold grinding. But in a raid enviroment, it becomes pretty situational, since its on a 3 minutes CD. You can actually pass on it and you wont lose as much dps, given you use it for something good.
Btw, dont take what I said as it is. These are my opinions, not THE truth, if you know what I mean.
- IFF is a great talent, but if you have an SP in your raid, it's a waste.
- Typhoon is cool and a great PvP tool, but useless (if not annoying) in PvE, so, another waste.
- IMHO, Eclipse is a good talent to take, but there are still discussions (read maths) going on about if it is really good or not. All I have to say is: I took Eclipse, I like it, and my rotation is IS/W while Eclipse dont proc and MF/SF with the proc. I rarely go OOM with this rotation and Rawr says its a nice dps rotation for the equipment I have right now.
- Dreamstate/Intensity are great talents. But they are kinda situational. You will have to figure out if you need the mana or not, and if you do need, if you will pick one, another or both. I, for one, took 1 on Dreamstate, and 2 on Intensity.
- Treants is kinda...meh. I dont like it very much. I think its more of a PvP tool along the other talent that gives them chance to stun target than a PvE talent. But Rawr (and a lot of calculations around) says it may increase your dps for quite a bit (30 to 50 points, roughly).
- Celestial focus is pretty interesting. 3% haste may see not very much, but it actually is. I though that the reading was "take the haste rating you have, calculate 3% of it and add", but, actually, its a 3% increase, just like balance of power. Pretty interesting, if you ask me.
- There's that talent(forgot its freaking name) that diminishes your threat and increase the range you can cast spells. I think its pretty usefull in some raid bosses and 5man bosses that does some aoe dmg, but only near him. The diminished threat is always good too.
- Balance of Power...do I even have to talk about it? If you do PvE, you will have to pick it. Too much hit to ignore. Simple as that.
- I, for one, like starfall and I picked it in my build for the gold grinding. But in a raid enviroment, it becomes pretty situational, since its on a 3 minutes CD. You can actually pass on it and you wont lose as much dps, given you use it for something good.
Btw, dont take what I said as it is. These are my opinions, not THE truth, if you know what I mean.
Galenmoon wrote:
ArexLovesPie wrote:
Tell me your server and character name and I'll gladly run you and give you the results from Rawr for wrath/sf dps.
notinterested....
Do it or you're nothing :P
Edited, Dec 18th 2008 7:47am by Galenmoon
Sorry i completely forgot about this thread but for the reading impaired my armory was already linked above a few days before your useless post.
That being said ill trust what the target dummies are telling me over a flawed program like rawr.
Now i will say about the time i passed up 1400 SP and 300 haste starfire did become more DPS than wrath but eclipse procs where still the way to go and at 1700+ and 400+ haste starfire is even more DPS than bothering with eclipse procs.
Now if only i could find gear with haste and hit i will be happy.
Edited, Jan 5th 2009 10:39am by notinterested
ArexLovesPie wrote:
[quote]
Starfall spam is more damage done and higher dps than wrath. I ran myself in Rawr and my Wrath spam dps is 1336.11 dps and oom in 2m 11s, my Starfire spam dps is 1659.82 dps and oom in 3m 18s.
Starfall spam is more damage done and higher dps than wrath. I ran myself in Rawr and my Wrath spam dps is 1336.11 dps and oom in 2m 11s, my Starfire spam dps is 1659.82 dps and oom in 3m 18s.
What's the DPS look like if the fight only lasts 2 mins?
Wrath Spam does more damage, but Starfire spam is less mana intensive.
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