Looking for a good spec for soloing.Follow

I'm a Night Elf Rogue and I solo almost all of the time. I pride myself on getting in and out of places without being detected and, of course, without combat. I've done a number of retrieval quests in and out of instances without combat. When I fight it's by my choosing and is usually one-on-one with Cheap Shot followed by Ambush. My question is: what would be the best spec to compliment this style? I've looked at the standard specs and they seem to favor groups. I would appreciate as much input as possible with the reasoning behind it. Thanks.

Why imp poisons if you're going WP/WP... seems like those points would be worth more, based on the OP's intended play style, in fleet footed. Combined with Camo, FF gives you close on 100% movement speed in stealth.

I suppose there are virtues either way of taking Remorseless attacks over imp evis, but again, based on the OP's intended playstyle, killing mobs in quick succession would not be the intention, so Remorseless attacks is a bit (actually, entirely) wasted.

This is how I'd go from 70, with the last 10 points going into combat for dw / precision, and initiative.

Another option would be ShD daggers. Combined with the glyph of backstab, my BS's (which are now only 45 energy) are critting (at an inflated crit chance) for 2100 with 71dps level 70 daggers. HaT provides enough CPs to have a 5pt KS ready when CS runs out, and Shadowdance allows the use of CS again if you (for some crazy reason) can't finish before KS runs out. Even then, you have the luxury of Ambush as a finisher (the mob should be < 1/4 hp by then), which would ensure an Ambush kill, or even premed for 2 feee CP's and an Evis finisher.

Not claiming to be an expert, but I'm having a cr@phouse load of fun with This HaT level 70 build, specifically for soloing, and having fun. I can't wait for bigger better daggers

Edited, Dec 8th 2008 4:20pm by robertlofthouse

Not too hard to figure out with a bit of thought ... here's a boost though

ShS = Shadowstep
ShD = Shadowdance
HaT = Honor Amongst Theives
BS = Backstab
CS = Cheap Shot
KS = Kidney Shot
WP = Wound Poison
IP = Instant Poison
DP = ... take a guess ;-)
CP = Combo point


I'll stop there .. important thing it to familiarise yourself with the skills and abilities, and the abbreviations become a lot clearer.

fair enough, but we are talking leveling here (at least, I am ;-> ).. so enchanting your new boots every half a level could prove a little inefficient. Slap me silly if you want, I'm a cheapskate - there, I've said it ;-)


I sorta read between the lines and interpreted the OP's style as being one of not fighting when not having to. Now, while his shot selection may be suspect, I see where he's coming from, because I like to play the same way ... I engage as infrequent as possible, to the point where if it's possible not to fight, I won't - call me crazy, and it may be super inefficient, but I get the most thrill out of playing that way. With that in mind, grinding in quick succession is not an option.

Hoooowever, if we're talking farming for mats / gold, etc ... you may have a point ... although imp evis does have it's own virtues. Anyhow, it's probably a subject that has gotten a lot of airtime over the years with vehement defenders from both sides, the reason being is that you'll probably find the benefits being very similar at the end of the day, making it overall a moot point. I'd go for imp evis .. for the record :D



Mobility, and stunlock. Yes, I know you can (and should) stunlock a mob to death using any build, but Sub makes it sooo much easier (and more enjoyable).

tbh, I've only recently tried the dagger route, having played hemo swords for a while (which I loved), and mostly combat swords, but I do like the style. Again, admittedly, I'm yet to give hemo swords a try again since 3.0 (with HaT) ... perhaps I'll like that better. Also, I've not yet tried Muti .. at all ... since 3.0, so I can only comment on what makes sense by looking at the talents, and reading commentary (mainly here). The other spec I've tried (since 3.0) is the standard 5/51/5 combat build - which I quite like, but I found downtime to be a lot worse that a sub build (based on Stunlocking).

So I guess my fixation with sub-daggers is mostly from a point of view if inexperience / non-exposure to the other options out there since 3.0, but it does work very well in my experience, specifically from the mobility in stealth perspective (which I guess you can get with a normal muti/low sub build), but also from the huge stunlock potential. This last point is, to me, the highlight of the spec ... you can go from mob to mob killing with zero downtime, simply because you never get hit, and that'll happen in 5-6 seconds, max 10 seconds.

As for Ambush, I agree, it's pathetic, and it's only mapped to my action bar for use when I 1) know that my target is low armour / hp ... in which case the chance of decimation is high and 2) it's on my main bar for use with shadowdance .. and then only as a finisher if the target is low on hp.

Aaaall that being said, I haven't taken my rogue to northrend yet, and my experience is based on interaction in the top level zones in outlands post 3.0 but pre-wrath, so if you say Backstab scales back as badly as I've seen ambush scale, then I'm still to experience that, and it'll probably change my mind. But to start with, I'll go through the first few quests as sub-daggers, get the feel for it ... I have 2 S2 swords, which I can switch in and use if need be (although optimal use of those may require a slight respec). There's the blue dagger in Tundra I'll aim for, at which stage, I'll try out Muti ... so, by the time I'm 71, I'll have decided.

Fair enough Robert. I have to agree, it's pretty fun sneaking around. There are a lot of times that I miss that leveling build compared to my raiding one. Also, I've amended my post re: Fleet. I personally didn't upgrade my boots until into heroics (from t6) and I tend to forget that upgrades happen. You're right, it's a bit crazy to expect anyone to blow 100g on each upgrade while leveling.

All I can tell ya after reading your response regarding Sub is this: Try Mutilate. Really. Spec Sub-Daggers for half a level and Muti for the other half and see how you feel. =D

And for the record (and those reading these threads) I don't see anything in the Sub tree that directly effects stun-lock. CS and KS will last just as long with any other spec. Mobility, sure. Combo points, great. But longer stuns? Nope ;(

Cheers!

Average including both, and without positional requirements. Just try it and see if it works for ya.

Honestly, I'd be very hard pressed to consider HaT a solo talent. With all the other combo point generators in Sub that work great for soloing I can't see the value of those talent points being used for HaT in a pure solo build. It's amazing in certain raid situations, but those talent points could be used to greater effect elsewhere IMO.

Eh, respecs are cheap after all.

From what I recall, only very few mobs made it to the second Muti (CS/Muti/Evis/omgitsdead). Key in my mind were Initiative and Remorseless. Chain pulling was like butter and having those immediately available CPs were vital. The only slowing factor was the energy between mobs, but with Relentless and FA it wasn't a major factor but rarely.

There are some decent daggers early in LK questing that would replace the SSO rep ones iirc. So maybe wait until you have access to better daggers, then switch?

Either way, try it out and be sure to post your findings, pro or con.

Cheers.

Hm...I can actually see how Slow Daggers would be a benefit than for soloing. Mobs shouldn't last long enough for the poison procs to matter, and on top of that your Muti's would be hitting for more which would shorten the battles even more.

I think you have a good point there, for pure soloing Slow/Slow may be better than Fast/Fast. And I don't think that it would make such a massive difference in instances that it would be a consideration until you actually got to 80 and were grinding instances.

What about a combat fist/dagger built for soloing for a level 73 rogue Therion. I will no longer use the word pve lol tell I'm ready to. ><

No no.. my sheet was purely comparing damage per hit ... a full dps cycle is not really indicative of your typical mob fight (3-5 hits). 100% agreed, I've modelled a lot of sword builds in an attempt to find the best one for me (not necessarily for min/max raiding), and they generally always come out above a sub dagger build for extended dps rotations (combat swords trumping the lot of them a huge majority of the time).

I had made a mistake in one of my calculations though, which I saw after checking Vulajin's sheet ... but that only further enhanced the Muti damage done, and further cemented the Muti>Sub argument.

I've used this when I fully intend to solo. It has:

- High Stealth level (even higher level mobs mobs need to step on you to see you clearly).
- Fast Stealth movement (close to 97% if I remember correctly. Regardless it's almost as fast as a normal unbuffed speed).
- Decent CP generation (CPs after finishers, CPs when you dodge, CPs when your CP-gens crit, and extra CPs on your openers).

I spec'd in to Prep before and never actually found myself using it on a regular enough basis so I got rid of it. When grinding dailies (the only reason I solo now) I've yet to find a use for it since I'm never wishing I had any CDs up. To each his own, but I never had any personal use for it outside of PvP.

While taking heaps of damage. Seriously, Ambush is great on mobs when you can get them to 20-25% health immediately, otherwise you're spending way too long on the fight after that initial burst. Remember, it's an opener, so there's no way to get any kind of stun off, thereby not being able to stop the mob from hitting you (which, as a leather wearer, you want to do as much as possible).

A 5 point Evis crit does about as much damage as an ambush, and you can do that while the mob is still stunned.

I was farming leather last night ... my rogue is 71, and I was farming the Mammoths in Borean Tundra ... level 69/70. My rotation is simple, CS -> Mut -> 5pt Evis -> Mut ... dead mob ... 4 seconds.

Sometimes, for variety, I would Cold Blood -> Ambush -> Mut -> Evis -> Mut ... dead mob ... also about 4 seconds, but I've taken 10% damage. Can only do 10 of those in a row before I'm dead. the first rotation pretty much ensures constant kills with no dowtime, eating, bandaging, etc. (I did start taking damage at one stage, and had to eat once ... mobs suddenly stopped dying fast ... was very confused - then I realised my poisons had worn off :-| )

So yeah, Ambush is nice for a big crit ... but that's all it's good for - seeing a pretty number, there are no practical advantages to it otherwise.

Now when I was level 18, I clearly remember one shotting some mobs with ambush ... when I was 30, I remember being able to take them to 10% - which was still quite cool. However, when at 50, you can only take them to 40%, and at 60 (on outland mobs with outland gear), you can only take them to 50% ... you realise just how bad the ability is getting as you level. At 70, I'm taking them down to about 60% with a normal ambush crit, which means I need to burn through the rest of the mobs hp toe to toe ...

Yes, Therion, I did try Mut ... and OMG, how could I ever have thought sub daggers was any good ... I didn't even need to try the half level as sub / half level as mut and then decide ... 2 or 3 mobs as Mut was enough to 100% convince me.