Well, seeing that HAT is apparently pretty freaking awesome I decided to investigate it a bit, I'll post my thoughts here and than once I get soem feedback I'll probably actually test it in game.
My understanding of HAT is that you get so many combo points all you can do is spam finishers.
First thoughts:
1. Cycle?
2. Eviscerate or Envenom
It seems to me you would do a similar cycle with HAT as you would with Combat just replacing SS with Evis/Envenom
SnD->Rupture->Evis/Envenom x n times->SnD->Rupture->Evis/Envenom x n times->Repeat
As for Eviscerate versus Envenom my main concern is poison stacks. If you go the envenom route and I would assume DP/WP would you have enough stacks of WP on the target for the amount of Envenom you spam. Or would the number of envenoms result in not having enough stacks on the target to do decent DPS.
I hope that made sense...
My next thought is in regards to the build itself, if you aren't going to be using SS/Hemo is there a point to having points in talents to buff them? I'm thinking that for a pure raid perspective it wouldn't be worth it and you would be better off putting those points elsewhere.
Which brings us to my thoughts for a build.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhe00xZ0gVZe0fbhhdbVuVc
That build would be one using Evis and not having anything to do with Hemo or SS just straight up Finishers. Some of the Subtlety points could probably be shifted around based on personal preference since they don't offer much if anything in terms of DPS. Not sure if Imp SnD or Blood Spatter would be a better choice, now that I think about it Blood Spatter probably would be since SnD shouldn't fall at all with the number of Combo Points were building not to mention the SnD Glyph.
The above build could also take the 2 Imp SnD points and move them to Imp SS if needed. That would probably make the build much more solo friendly but less raid DPS.
For an Envenom build I would probably use the same as above except replace Imp Evis with Vile Poisons.
For a build that included Hemo I would probably take a point out of Heightened Sense and put it in Hemo. I wouldn't take Slaughter from the Shadows because the points you would take from other talents would probably result in a DPS loss.
Now this is all based on speculation from my part, and I would love for someone who has actually played HAT to give me their thoughts. Everyone else is welcome to comment as well.
Edited, Dec 6th 2008 1:21pm by GodOfMoo
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I'm not sure where HAT builds are in terms of DPS, but it could be a good idea.
I guess that depending on the group your main 'rotation' would be keeping Rupture, S&D, and possibly EA up at all times. If that's the way to follow, anything that makes Rupture or S&D last longer is better, since you'll have to spend less time keeping Rupture/S&D up which means there's more time left for Eviscerate/Envenom.
As for the build... I reckon Setup should be in it? You'll probably have plenty of resists, mostly but not limited thanks to CLoS. Also, depending on your tank, imp EA might be an option. Also, I wonder what adds more damage, 5/5 Lethality or 5/5 Close Quarters Combat (running with fist weapons I suppose).
I guess that depending on the group your main 'rotation' would be keeping Rupture, S&D, and possibly EA up at all times. If that's the way to follow, anything that makes Rupture or S&D last longer is better, since you'll have to spend less time keeping Rupture/S&D up which means there's more time left for Eviscerate/Envenom.
As for the build... I reckon Setup should be in it? You'll probably have plenty of resists, mostly but not limited thanks to CLoS. Also, depending on your tank, imp EA might be an option. Also, I wonder what adds more damage, 5/5 Lethality or 5/5 Close Quarters Combat (running with fist weapons I suppose).
Since all my raids have Warriors tanks EA wouldn't be a problem for me but it might be a thought for others.
Hm...I assume CQC's crit increase also applies to Evis(I'm going to assume Evis is the way to go).
I'm already running with the Evis Glyph since I havn't found a cheap rupture one yet, so thats already a crit rate of 30% or so. 5% crit to everything or 30% extra crit damage on Evis...
Personally I would run Lethality, but CQC might be better, especially if you have Mirror of Truth.
I guess Glyph set up would be Evis, SnD, Rupture.
As for Setup it depends on how often you get hit with AoE. If you aren't very good at dodging AoE than maybe its worth it, if you avoid 90% of AoEs it might not be. Though the more that I think about it the more I'm swaying towards Setup...
Hm...I assume CQC's crit increase also applies to Evis(I'm going to assume Evis is the way to go).
I'm already running with the Evis Glyph since I havn't found a cheap rupture one yet, so thats already a crit rate of 30% or so. 5% crit to everything or 30% extra crit damage on Evis...
Personally I would run Lethality, but CQC might be better, especially if you have Mirror of Truth.
I guess Glyph set up would be Evis, SnD, Rupture.
As for Setup it depends on how often you get hit with AoE. If you aren't very good at dodging AoE than maybe its worth it, if you avoid 90% of AoEs it might not be. Though the more that I think about it the more I'm swaying towards Setup...
1) You will need at least one other HAT rogue in your group, preferably three.
2) Keep Snd and rupture up, the rest of the time eviscerate. Envenom is not as good given the talents you take.
3) Double wound poison.
2) Keep Snd and rupture up, the rest of the time eviscerate. Envenom is not as good given the talents you take.
3) Double wound poison.
Quote:
1) You will need at least one other HAT rogue in your group, preferably three.
Why?
I thought the best possible group for HaT would be something like a feral druid for Leader of the Pack. Retadin, because of the massive numbers of crits they get, a moonkin to add more crit to the pally, and a healer. You would be assured of the maximum number of crits allowed with that set up.
Mozared wrote:
Quote:
1) You will need at least one other HAT rogue in your group, preferably three.
Why?
Quoting myself from another thread here:
Quote:
Just a tip: it's bugged atm so that you get HAT twice per crit if there are two rogues in the group, so you'll want as many rogues (HAT specced) as possible in each group, and other classes that crit a lot in the other slots.
so with HAT, would you ever backstab, or use any other special attack than a finisher? Also it only seems viable in a heroic/raid with at least one other HAT rogue. I know people keep saying its bugged, but if it was I think blizz would have addressed it in this latest patch.
From my understanding you wouldn't use any non finishers.
Im gonna respec into it tonight, and try it out in some heroics. I dont have a HAT buddy, but Ill test with the ret pally and feral druid I run with. If I get my Greed from COS Im going back to combat. Mutilate is really nice but I really miss being combat.
HaT in a Heroic would be... probably not so great I would think. It's really a raid build for when you have a good amount of critting going on in the raid. Guildie of mine tried it out on some raids we did and it really depended on having a high raid-crit percentage. Soon as that dropped, so did his DPS.
Just fair warning, good luck!
Just fair warning, good luck!
yeah, I was reconsidering right after posting. Im just gonna stay mutilate till I get Greed. I have a papercutter so Greed+cutter will be a great combat mash up. Im just really unhappy with my dps at the moment, and want killing spree back, and blade flurry. I figure if I have more ability to hit more than 1 object Ill feel better. Who knows.
HAT is only great right now because of the bug with other rogues which makes it bleh in 5 mans, its basicly only good in 25 mans with full raid buffs and 2+ other HAT rogues.
As for a rotation, its extremely roughly:
- if cp < 3 and energy > 90 -> hemo
- if cp >=4 and energy > 80 -> finisher
- if cp < 4 and energy < 40 -> pool energ
It's less a rotation and more of managing energy and cp's to keep up snd and evis as much as possible without doing anything at all.
Also, because of this its best to use 2 fast weapons to maximize poison procs since you wont be hemoing, preferably much at all.
edit: grammar
Edited, Dec 14th 2008 12:47am by XxwrathofcarbunclexX
As for a rotation, its extremely roughly:
- if cp < 3 and energy > 90 -> hemo
- if cp >=4 and energy > 80 -> finisher
- if cp < 4 and energy < 40 -> pool energ
It's less a rotation and more of managing energy and cp's to keep up snd and evis as much as possible without doing anything at all.
Also, because of this its best to use 2 fast weapons to maximize poison procs since you wont be hemoing, preferably much at all.
edit: grammar
Edited, Dec 14th 2008 12:47am by XxwrathofcarbunclexX
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