Rogues in PvE :: Free Realms

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#1 Dec 04 2008 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good

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Rogue in PvE
We are taking a hard look at rogue PvE performance right now.

We don't think fixing the Master Poisoner bug is cause to give rogues a huge buff however. The issue is a little more complex than it is being portrayed in this thread. (Source)

Recent blue post from MMO-Champion.

So it seems they lied when they said we were working as intended...

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#2 Dec 04 2008 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good

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Honestly, with the troubles I've had with my DPS so far in LK raiding I'd love to read that statement as "incoming buffage" but when the changes come the cynic inside warns "probably not so much".

Just have to wait and see. That statement isn't exactly all that clear.

Le sigh.

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#3 Dec 04 2008 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good

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They're going to make assassination be like the original ambush spec. Everything will be for one-hit kills. Of course, we won't actually one hit kill anything, but Blizzard will explain its because we need to upgrade our gear.

Combat will be turned into 'ninja' spec. We'll get ninja magic that does stuff like vanish. No other spec will be able to vanish anymore. We'll also get elemental magic damage spells that do about half the damage of a normal auto attack and take 1 second to cast.

Subtlety will have absolutely no DPS viability at all, but we'll get a lot of new fun stealthy skills for moving around really stealthily.

That's what my magic 8 ball says. Oh wait, this is a real 8 ball.

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#4 Dec 04 2008 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good

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Just what type of eight ball are you talking about?

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#5 Dec 04 2008 at 7:56 PM Rating: Good

MasterOutlaw

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I always thought I had lost my touch a bit explaining why I've had so much trouble keeping my DPS up, but I guess I'm not the only one having problems after browsing different forums. I mean it's not bad, but it's also feels unusually low. Even factoring in gear changes I figure I should have been doing more than I've been seeing.

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#6 Dec 04 2008 at 9:30 PM Rating: Decent

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Did my 1st 25 man today and at the end of it I wanted to switch to my Hunter. So underwhelming. /sigh

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#7 Dec 04 2008 at 9:50 PM Rating: Good

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Ghostcrawler wrote:

On rogues specifically, I wanted to clear up some perceptions:

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So why again are you not going to let mages compete with rogues for #1, along with hunters and warlocks? It really is horribly frustrating to have rolled a mage all those years ago and still have to play with this crap :(
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Rogues are the purest MELEE dps class in the game. They bring almost nothing to a raid except dps, i really fail to see how this is even argued. Sure mages and hunters are pure dps classes also, but they bring more utility, and best of all they bring RANGE. They can stay in most fights more consistently, and I'd even say easier, then a rogue can. Please don't bring the hunter pet QQ into it because for all those cleaves the pet might take, the rogue is taking also, and any movement can completely destroy his rotation.

If you balance rogues, hunters, locks and mages to all do the same dps on target dummies, then what you find in a raid is that the ranged dps comes out on top because the rogue has to spend a lot of potential dps time on positioning and running out of fires. This isn't true of every encounter, but it is true of a lot. (If there is an encounter where a rogue should shine, it's something like Patchwerk.) So rogue dps on a combat dummy probably needs to be higher so that net dps in a raid is about the same as other classes. Make sense?

And once again, if you are taking an inexperienced rogue in blues and PvP gear in a raid, then don't be surprised if expert Moonkin, Retadins, Fury warriors and Enhancement shammies (and all the other hybrids who will Suspect Something Is Up if I don't mention them) blast past him on the meters.

We're not sure if PvE rogue dps is too low. Some players clearly think it is. You can't just average out rogue dps across all WWS reports because you have no idea of the skill and gear involved without a lot of digging. Rogues are very sensitive to buffs and a lot of other factors. It's complicated and the solutions are tricky too. Just buffing rogue damage across the board could do bad things to PvP. Making them better now could make them way too good two tiers from now. These things take time sometimes.

We're also not going to keep anyone weak in PvE just because they are good in PvP or vice versa.[Emphasis Added]

Interesting that GC lists a fight like Patchwerk as one where Rogue should crush the meters if they're balanced correctly, but that I haven't seen a Rogue up in the 5500-5700 DPS range that top Hunters and Mages seem to keep putting out. If GC is being honest, my guess is that they should bump Rogue DPS up so that top Rogues are putting out #s on stationary fights like Patchwerk that even other "pure" DPS classes can't match. Who wants to place bets if it's going to happen before Arthas? :)

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#8 Dec 05 2008 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good

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I did my best DPS on Patchwerk in my Naxx 25 man, I think I was around 2.3k or so(I'm ignoring Loatheb since that isn't good for pure DPS).

The hunter we had did around 3.5k....and he can maintain 3.5k or more on every boss in Naxx, whereas on other bosses I was doing 2k or less. So yes, its pretty clear that movement fights ***** us, and since 90% of fights in WoW are movement fights it really makes us less valuable.

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#9 Dec 05 2008 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good

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I'm floating around 3k with a ton of upgrades with full raid buffs, flasked, etc.... Still sitting behind, be ready to be shocked: hunters and mages most of the time....

grrrr.

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#10 Dec 05 2008 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent

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I was 3k on Patch. I was at 10th spot with all mages dks above me. Let's not mention anything involving AE.

Edited, Dec 5th 2008 3:28pm by Elustriel

Edited, Dec 5th 2008 3:28pm by Elustriel

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#11 Dec 05 2008 at 7:12 PM Rating: Decent

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A fight where we should be in the competition for #1 on meters, we shouldn't be pouring everything we've got just to land 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, or 8th on.

http://wowwebstats.com/rnvjvnzblwf45?s=463333-494624&m

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