Didn't see the thread so i made this
Anyways this matter seems to take the most importance in my mind becuase my main is a lvl 80 BM hunter who I will be owning arenas on. I posted my opinion on the Oboards but here is a summary of what I remember i posted.
My ideas on change were
- Have bloodthirsty talent heal for more maybe like 3-5% so managing pets won't take so much maintence and watch. This could b done by taking and like heals 0.5% more for each buff on the target, enssuring that this effect will only have the increased benefits from PVP.
- It's possible to lower the cooldown on lick your wounds.
One of the other things that kept coming up were a hunter's way to mitigate magic damage. Aspect of the wild is our only way to do that so here was my suggestion.
- Aspect of the wild: Increases nature resistance by 80 for the hunter and his/her party. In addition the hunter's frost fire and dark resistance is increased by 60. Also while under the effects of aspect of the wild the hunter's pet has a chance to <insert effect here> (snare, stun, daze [which ever would b least OP]) on melee attacks.
Finally the minor glyphs for a hunter really aren't that good. One that might have some nice 2v2 effects would b...
- Glyph of the pet: when ussing a ferocity pet the hunter benefits from bloodthirsty proc, when using a tenacity pet every time the hunter or pet is stunned or snared both the hunter and pet's defense and magic resistance is increased by 10%, when using a cunning pet while under the effects of masters call all of the hunter's melee moves cause the target to be knocked back 5 yds.
Finally the quick fix for hunters would be an achievement.
- Hunting with the Hunters: Do 60 arena battles with a hunter in ur party
Incase u guys didn't know the last one was a joke, so what do you think?
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potsoriginal wrote:
my main is a lvl 80 BM hunter who I will be owning arenas on.
Phew, that was funny...
No seriously, hunters don't "own" anything in arena, we get smashed to pieces in PvP by any class that has a root or snare.
Quote:
Phew, that was funny...
No seriously, hunters don't "own" anything in arena, we get smashed to pieces in PvP by any class that has a root or snare.
No seriously, hunters don't "own" anything in arena, we get smashed to pieces in PvP by any class that has a root or snare.
With longevity and glyph of beastial wrath your beastial wrath will be sitting at a 1 min CD provided it last for 18 seconds, it will be at 42 second cooldown, then master's call will have 40 sec CD too and last for 4 seconds and used with frost trap, you should be able to stay pretty much unrooted.
I haven't spec'd for the arena yet, still 5 man-solo spec'd once I get my naxx group together i'll b respec'ing
potsoriginal wrote:
Finally the quick fix for hunters would be an achievement.
- Hunting with the Hunters: Do 60 arena battles with a hunter in ur party
That one is a little insulting. It's like telling everyone that hunters suck.
Quote:
That one is a little insulting. It's like telling everyone that hunters suck.
Oh, I apologize, I wasn't insulting hunters. I have a crap load of friends on my server so thats how I do my arena teams. (I have one pre setup) However I only have a few hunter friends, alledgely it's much harder for a hunter to find an arena team than other classes so I made that joke as a reference to that. Once again I apologize for speaking on a subject I do not know.
But I am a hunter so I was not trying to insult myself
potsoriginal wrote:
With longevity and glyph of beastial wrath your beastial wrath will be sitting at a 1 min CD provided it last for 18 seconds, it will be at 42 second cooldown, then master's call will have 40 sec CD too and last for 4 seconds and used with frost trap, you should be able to stay pretty much unrooted.
I haven't spec'd for the arena yet, still 5 man-solo spec'd once I get my naxx group together i'll b respec'ing
I haven't spec'd for the arena yet, still 5 man-solo spec'd once I get my naxx group together i'll b respec'ing
- Pet dies in ~5 seconds, no more BW.
- you're still running the whole time.
- You don't do damage while running, thus you're not killing anyone.
edit: I'll make it a bit longer.
The essential way of winning in Arena is by getting into a 2v1 (or 3v2, 5v4) situation.
There are a few ways to create such a situation.
1: Kill, obviously this sounds easier than it is but with enough burst your target dies and you're 2v1 which is a near auto win.
2: CC, keep 1 enemy CC'd gets you at 2v1 too, trinkets and possibly racials mess with this.
3: drain, OoM healer or dps? no more dps/heals from them > 2v1 situation.
All are not that easy to do, and require tactic etc.
Vs hunters, there's an additional option of getting 2v1.
Run towards the hunter.
Quite a lot easier don't you think?
We're just completely gimped with anyone in our face...
Oh, and you don't need to tell people hunters suck in arena, everyone already knows.
Edited, Dec 1st 2008 11:56pm by Aethien
HOW WIN ARENA AS BM HUNTAR
Roll over and die (TBW isn't as good as you people make it seem, its called LOS).
Or, spec MM and drain like a real hunter, and contribute to your team.
Roll over and die (TBW isn't as good as you people make it seem, its called LOS).
Or, spec MM and drain like a real hunter, and contribute to your team.
Yuppley wrote:
HOW WIN ARENA AS BM HUNTAR
Roll over and die (TBW isn't as good as you people make it seem, its called LOS).
Or, spec MM and drain like a real hunter, and contribute to your team.
Roll over and die (TBW isn't as good as you people make it seem, its called LOS).
Or, spec MM and drain like a real hunter, and contribute to your team.
Or both.
now, how to arena as MM hunter: Roll over and die.
Quote:
No it's called killing the pet in 5 seconds.
Or both.
now, how to arena as MM hunter: Roll over and die.
Or both.
now, how to arena as MM hunter: Roll over and die.
Nice
I can't wait to see what blizzard will do with us to improve arena combat.
I was on a 3v3 team pre Wotlk, me, a feral druid, and protection warrior. The feral druid and protection warrior were always able to do something but i would b down within the first 30-40 seconds of each match.
I haven't set foot in the Arena since the end of Season 3. I waited on Season 4 to see what they were going to do with the upgrade (LK) and after reading the stuff that pretty much said what others here have said, I have never gone back in.
Blizz didn't implement one of the suggestions we gave them for improving the Arena. The drawbacks are still the same. They did give us a bit of a band-aid with the rooting pet concept (crabs and such). However, that's far to little to overcome what they gave others.
Common Arena Hunter drawbacks:
- Hunters are still an early target (even before healers in 5v5 groups. As Aethien said, you want to get to a numerical advantage, and killing the Hunter first gives you a DPS and number advantage even with a healer helping them. It eliminates the pet as well.)
- Arena construction still kills Hunters. Too many LOS issues and level changes in the middle, not the edges. This lets others focus on you but you can't focus on them.
- It's pretty easy to ditch pets. Their pathing is still poor.
- Our traps are lessened but the total defensive talents (Bubble, Block, etc.) are not. They've lowered the effectiveness of our ability to counter spells.
- Volley is really only useful in 5v5 to work against melee ganging up on a single teammate. There's usually not enough melee to make it work in 3v3 and in 2v2 it's a waste of mana. So while they buffed our AOE capability, it is of limited use in Arena.
- and many, many more.
You generally don't see many hunters on high point Arena teams. Essentially, Arena plays to all our weaknesses and kills our strengths.
Battlegrounds are another matter entirely. A well played hunter (of any spec) can do serious damage in a BG if their teammates work properly with them. Open ground and choice of attack/ambush/choke points make hunters lethal in BG's. Volley is awesome in crowded rooms. We have BG's down, it's where Hunters do well PvP wise. I have enjoyed BG's for a long time and the changes made us even better in them.
Blizz didn't implement one of the suggestions we gave them for improving the Arena. The drawbacks are still the same. They did give us a bit of a band-aid with the rooting pet concept (crabs and such). However, that's far to little to overcome what they gave others.
Common Arena Hunter drawbacks:
- Hunters are still an early target (even before healers in 5v5 groups. As Aethien said, you want to get to a numerical advantage, and killing the Hunter first gives you a DPS and number advantage even with a healer helping them. It eliminates the pet as well.)
- Arena construction still kills Hunters. Too many LOS issues and level changes in the middle, not the edges. This lets others focus on you but you can't focus on them.
- It's pretty easy to ditch pets. Their pathing is still poor.
- Our traps are lessened but the total defensive talents (Bubble, Block, etc.) are not. They've lowered the effectiveness of our ability to counter spells.
- Volley is really only useful in 5v5 to work against melee ganging up on a single teammate. There's usually not enough melee to make it work in 3v3 and in 2v2 it's a waste of mana. So while they buffed our AOE capability, it is of limited use in Arena.
- and many, many more.
You generally don't see many hunters on high point Arena teams. Essentially, Arena plays to all our weaknesses and kills our strengths.
Battlegrounds are another matter entirely. A well played hunter (of any spec) can do serious damage in a BG if their teammates work properly with them. Open ground and choice of attack/ambush/choke points make hunters lethal in BG's. Volley is awesome in crowded rooms. We have BG's down, it's where Hunters do well PvP wise. I have enjoyed BG's for a long time and the changes made us even better in them.
Quote:
No it's called killing the pet in 5 seconds.
How would/does the pet talent Heart of the Phoenix effect this? I do NOT play in arenas and am completly clueless on the mechanics and strategies other than what gets posted in here. However, if you can instantly get your pet back with full health and it causes your opponents to spend 5 more seconds killing it, could that not tip the scales a bit?
Just a thought and curious if it has been tried and/or used. It IS a shame hunters are not competitive in Arena.
Happy Hunting!
--------------------------------------------------------------
Hulkababy - Lvl 62 Orc Hunter - Maelstrom
lol @ clowncomp.
edit: @ ArtofMagic
It just results in the pet getting killed again in 2 seconds, as HotP doesn't get it back with full hp.
And 5 seconds extra to get rid of half our dps isn't going to tip the scales in our favour.
Edited, Dec 2nd 2008 8:25pm by Aethien
edit: @ ArtofMagic
It just results in the pet getting killed again in 2 seconds, as HotP doesn't get it back with full hp.
And 5 seconds extra to get rid of half our dps isn't going to tip the scales in our favour.
Edited, Dec 2nd 2008 8:25pm by Aethien
The only way to keep your pet (and me) alive for any length of time was to stealth before the doors opened. You then sent the pet (in this case a Cat) with Prowl on their healer when you ID'd them and you came in behind them. If they missed you doing this, you generally could have 1-2 clothies down before they could react and take you out due to range. If they hadn't killed any of yours in that time, it generally meant a win.
This was the only time I ever had any success in Arena. If I could get into the fight even with a slight delay and then dump everything on their healer (or another unsuspecting hunter) and down them fast, we stood a chance of winning the match. If I was dead in under 20 seconds, we lost every time. It's too much of a dps loss to win with, and it meant the other team usually had a brain.
It's why NE Hunters with cats were semi-okay in Season 3. Now it's "Why bother" since there are just too many ways around a hunter and with DK's, it's gotta be even more fruitless.
Go do BG's, you'll be happier.
This was the only time I ever had any success in Arena. If I could get into the fight even with a slight delay and then dump everything on their healer (or another unsuspecting hunter) and down them fast, we stood a chance of winning the match. If I was dead in under 20 seconds, we lost every time. It's too much of a dps loss to win with, and it meant the other team usually had a brain.
It's why NE Hunters with cats were semi-okay in Season 3. Now it's "Why bother" since there are just too many ways around a hunter and with DK's, it's gotta be even more fruitless.
Go do BG's, you'll be happier.
Quote:
Go do BG's, you'll be happier.
***** you I don't want to be happy, I want to be miserable grind arenas over and over again until the gm just decides to give me my season armor :P
Lol jk, I do wintergasp, it's very fun.
Anyone have any other ideas to change/fix hunters?
Edit idea: No clue why I thought of this, super OP move thats for fun gags,
Hunting Party Change
Hunting Party (Now a beast mastery talent): Enables the hunter to have all 5 of his or her pets out at the same time.
Now thats a hunting party, could you imagine having a cat ripping you to shreds while a spider held you down and a core hound slowed your cast and the chimera kept you away from the hunter while a wolf buffed the hunter... crazy insane op'ness the down side? Mend pet now cost 500% more mana...
Edited, Dec 2nd 2008 4:02pm by potsoriginal
Or not? Then you would get a team of sensible players killing all 5 of your pets, while making SV useless in PvE.
Yeah, but you could also get 5 Hunters with 5 Pets and have a total of 35 or more 'PC' controlled characters on the screen. The latency alone might let the 25 pets kill off the other team....
Gorillas, Rhinos & Crabs OH MY!! O_o
Gorillas, Rhinos & Crabs OH MY!! O_o
Quote:
Yeah, but you could also get 5 Hunters with 5 Pets and have a total of 35 or more 'PC' controlled characters on the screen. The latency alone might let the 25 pets kill off the other team....
Gorillas, Rhinos & Crabs OH MY!! O_o
Gorillas, Rhinos & Crabs OH MY!! O_o
35 PCs on the screen? 5x5x5=125.
Yuppley wrote:
35 PCs on the screen? 5x5x5=125.
Actually if it was a 5v5 of all hunters, it would be 6 (hunters and pets) X 5 = 30
Or if you are looking at BG's
6x10=60
6x15=90
6x40=240
I wouldn't want to be in on that lagfest.
Edited, Dec 3rd 2008 3:18pm by browningguns
35 would the minimum number of PC controlled toons in a 5v5 if one of the teams of 5 was 5 hunters each with 5 pets...
5 Hunters,
25 Pets,
5 opposite faction players
Total of 35 PC controlled toons.
I stand by my statement.... "35 or more". ^_^
5 Hunters,
25 Pets,
5 opposite faction players
Total of 35 PC controlled toons.
I stand by my statement.... "35 or more". ^_^
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