Is Haste the new Crit?Follow

Hey guys.

I have a similar question to another post here but I thought I would ask anyway.

A lot of the new gear in WotLK has spell damage and haste associated with it.
Haste is virtually on everything now, nothing seems to have crit.

For me to replace some items with new ones that have haste I would lose crit as a lot of what I currently have, armour wise, has a crit factored into it.

Unbuffed I have around 27% crit depending on what I'am wearing, buffed I can get it to over 30% which I assumed was the number we were all looking for.

If I replace my items with crit associated with them those number will drop significantly.

My current Haste number is around 7.0 to 9.0 unbuffed and again depending what I'am wearing.
FFB casts at 2.7sec and Fireball at 2.9sec.

I've purposely not updated when haste replaces crit regardless if other factors like spell damage/stam/int. have been better.

Am I looking at this all wrong now?

Should I be concentrating on Haste build up to cast more but be prepared to lose crit as a result?

I've kept all my higher level Haste items and as a Tailor I can craft some pretty nice Haste gear until I start raiding again shortly and it will be replaced by badged items and drops.

So I'am confused which way to go.
It's to hard atm to balance both Crit and Haste with so much Haste being thrown at you.

Plus I feel my cast times are way to slow for where I'd like them to be but I do crit a lot atm.

I'am pve only and have followed the same talent tree as Anobix so I class myself as an Elemental Mage now leaning more towards fire.

Thanks for any advice given, appreciate it.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aman%27Thul&n=Fl%C3%A4me

Edited, Dec 1st 2008 6:22am by RodStorm

Edited, Dec 1st 2008 6:24am by RodStorm

I'm assuming that if I start rading as frost that Haste is more important than crit. I've my frostbolt down to 2.3 secs right now, but I could see getting that to 2.1 with 2 additional items.

haste for frost is better since FoF does not really have a ppm mechanism (needs some verifying from Anobix as I have yet to hit raiding level for my mage). The more frostbolts you throw the more FoFs you get. More FoFs also mean more free fireballs.

The playstyle is quite opposite to Fire. Its burst is quite controllable (hot streak = great), if your spellhit cap then spellpower and crit will take pirority. Take note that with the current raid buff setup, its quite possible to hit 50% crit rate. FFB mages need to really take note of their threat though.

the hit cap changes as you level.

it now takes (at 80) 26.235 (I believe) hit for 1% hit instead of 12.6 at 70.

if you want to know what could be better for you and your spec:

http://www.codeplex.com/Rawr

http://elitistjerks.com/f75/

EJ mage section

Edited, Dec 2nd 2008 12:20am by Anobix

Thanks Anobix, I use Rawr as per your advice some time ago but havent looked at it until I hit 80.
So I'll be doing that after this post :)

The old hit cap number was around 164 or 174, I cant remember which.
I'am not good with the percentages but moreso with whole numbers so at 80 what are we looking at now?

Thanks for the help.

It's a matter of opportunity cost. You hit for less because instead of budgeting your items for straight damage, you've put item budget into faster casting. So no, a point of haste doesn't reduce the damage you do, but it does mean you do less than if you had instead taken a point of damage.



Unless something has changed in the last day or so, no, not proven a myth. Just only functional for FFB(meaning you need more than that to be capped for your other useful spells, such as Scorch and Pyroblast). I think it's widely believed to be a bug. Assume 3% gained from the Spriest/Boomkin debuff and 3% from Elemental Precision and you'll be good on all your spells. Add in the 3% extra for the FFB Elemental Precision bug, and you'll see that 8% left. Add in a Draenei, and you'll need only 7%.



Haste hasn't become more important than Crit for frosties. It always has been more useful, point for point. Now, however, it has become even more powerful considering you'll get a lot of crit from new talents.



FFB has a build all its own. Consider it a new version of fire for the most part. It's highly dependant on how often you crit, so, in a way, the opposite of frost.

I would normally shoot for about 20%+ self-buffed, as a fire mage should be going for around 30%+ at least.

Hey guys, no one knows the actual new hit cap number?

Is it really 454?

That seems like a really big hike from 70 levels to 164 and the remaining 10 to 454.

Do I still look at the cap before spell damage and crit?

And do I look at haste as a third option after the other 2?

Thanks.

202 at 70?
Really?
With the arcane talents I had and what you and Pold said in prior posts at the time I'am sure it was around 160 to 170'ish.
I cant find my original post for the quote but I'am sure thats what it was.
I have asked another person who posts on here and they said with Anobix's talent tree, which I and they have copied, 218 was the number to be looking for.
So now at 80 its 289?
Yes I'am confused.
It looks like Ebonweave gear for the short term to get some spell hit but I'am still not sure what number I'am striving for.
Do I sacrifice crit ans spell damage for the cap?
If it is 289 then something has to give.
Thanks, one confused mage.

Look at my chart in the frostfire bolt thread.

Basically:

The goal is 17% chance to hit with your main nuke (at least), at this time Frostfire Bolt currently double-dips elemental precision giving only that spell 6% benefit while the rest get 3% (it is unknown if this is intended or a bug that will be hotfixed later).

Our hit increase talents:
Elemental Precision (+3%/6% for FFB)
Imp Fairy Fire/Misery (+3%)

1% hit = 26.232 hit
% Spell Hit Rating (lvl 80)
17%.....445.94387624....hit cap
14%.....367.24789808....Spriest/Boomkin (or Elemental Precision 3%)
11%.....288.55191992....Elemental Precision (6% FFB, or 3% (other spells) +3% with Boomkin/Spriest)
8%*.....209.85594176....Spriest/Boomkin + EP (For frostfire bolt = 9% hit)
1%......26.23199272


This table is what makes us different (currently) than what we used to be. Where similarly to melee classes, we can cap our main spell (or for them their yellow damage) and have other damage not capped yet. This means that assuming FFB is your main nuke after you cap it (depending on group makeup, let's assume your cap is the minimum 8%) which means that every point of hit after that 8% is not quite as important, although they will prevent scorches and living bombs and pyroblasts from missing, they don't qualify as a huge enough % of your dps (about 20% total assuming normal crit%s and such).

Edited, Dec 5th 2008 1:37pm by Anobix

Hey guys.

Confused again, Pold said with elemental precision the cap would be 289.
Annobix said to aim for 17% to be capped.

My current hit is 330, with the food buff its 370, I have elemental precision 3/3 which makes me around 13% on the cap.

So my numbers arent matching up.

It looks like I need 454 but I do have elemental precision, my guild's Mage leader saids 368 is the number to look for.
Well that doesnt give me 17% as I'am already past that and have a lower percentage.

Drag the crayons out guys because I'am not getting it.

Thanks mate, 368 is the number most seem to agree on and I'am not to far of it.

I used your table in one of my guild forum posts, all I got back was dont beleive everything you read in forums but I took that with a grain of salt.

Thanks mate for the help :)

Group composites do change depending on raider status and the raid involved, ie numbers required, but theres usually a druid in there somewhere.
I'am around 350 on the cap without the food buff so almost there near 368.
Once achieved then back to looking at getting the spell damage to over 1600+.
Thanks mate for clearing this up for me :)