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Mutilate spec for Heroics ...Follow
So I'm Mutilate spec. I enjoy it for farming and for PvP. However, I need to learn to PvE better!
I was in a heroic yesterday (Halls of Lightning) and I couldn't even maintain 1000 DPS, whereas others in my group were approaching 2000. My gear is not very good, but it's not terrible either. It's mostly S4 gear with a single L80 epic and a few L80 blues mixed in. I have about 220 hit rating.
So my question - What is the best move rotation to maximize DPS as mutilate? I know it's not the ideal spec, but there is plenty of damage potential in my build. Feel free to check my armory for details, but I'm 42/5/24 mut/prep right now w/ offhand spec.
Let me preface this by saying what's already known...I don't know much.
I do know that you should be running a lot higher dps. I'm 76 and sustain 1200, close to 2k on boss fights in instances.
My rotation: garrote, SnD, mut mut envn, mut mut rupture, mut mut envn, repeat. The armory is down right now, but at 42 you probably don't have cut to the chase, which replenishes your SnD timer upon evis or envenom to full duration, which is awesome, imo. My hit is at 297, 317 with hit food if needed (normally use mega mammoth for 80 AP). Buffed AP with 550 might is closing in on 3000...base is 2.2k, so there's a big difference in stats there.
Hopefully someone more enlightened will help you out.
Edit: Forgot about Hunger for Blood. Extra 9% dmg helps.
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 12:46pm by ThomasMagnum
I do know that you should be running a lot higher dps. I'm 76 and sustain 1200, close to 2k on boss fights in instances.
My rotation: garrote, SnD, mut mut envn, mut mut rupture, mut mut envn, repeat. The armory is down right now, but at 42 you probably don't have cut to the chase, which replenishes your SnD timer upon evis or envenom to full duration, which is awesome, imo. My hit is at 297, 317 with hit food if needed (normally use mega mammoth for 80 AP). Buffed AP with 550 might is closing in on 3000...base is 2.2k, so there's a big difference in stats there.
Hopefully someone more enlightened will help you out.
Edit: Forgot about Hunger for Blood. Extra 9% dmg helps.
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 12:46pm by ThomasMagnum
PvE mute spec is 51/13/7. If you aren't that, you shouldn't be expecting serious dps potential. Here's what you're skipping out:
3% crit
5% hit
9% Damage
Free SnD
Especially for shorter fights, letting loose with an envenom instead of refreshing SnD is another 2k-4k damage every SnD refresh, or sooner depending on your CP generation. That's easily another 140 dps. Add in the gain in stats, and you're ripping **** up.
3% crit
5% hit
9% Damage
Free SnD
Especially for shorter fights, letting loose with an envenom instead of refreshing SnD is another 2k-4k damage every SnD refresh, or sooner depending on your CP generation. That's easily another 140 dps. Add in the gain in stats, and you're ripping **** up.
Mobs shouldn't be living long enough for you to use envenom - the SnD refresh should come on your secon target, giving no time to build up DP, even if you are using it.
Ok I tried Mut again in Heroics, subpar trash dps, "ok" boss dps. HfB upkeep making me want to punch babies? check!
Best 50gold I spent to respec back to combat? Check!
Best 50gold I spent to respec back to combat? Check!
mutilate is not easy, thats one of the main reasons people are drawn to it who have played rogues since pre-bc.
HFB upkeep is retarded easy, its seriously no harder than keeping slice and dice up, and since slice and dice is so much easier to keep up now with the most popular mutilate spec, its a nice trade off. The main trick is to figure out what to do on trash, and what do do on bosses, making sure your weapons are on par, as well as your gear. You can't just go ok here are 2 daggers throw em this spot and this spot, and expect it to work. Im 75 right now and Im RARELY under 1300dps. I have SSC/TK gear for my mutilate spec though so I may be in a better spot. I WOULD do higher dps if I were combat though, because I have gear that suits that spec better. To me mutilate is just so much more fun. And its what I leveled as when it came available for the BC 60-70 grind.
HFB upkeep is retarded easy, its seriously no harder than keeping slice and dice up, and since slice and dice is so much easier to keep up now with the most popular mutilate spec, its a nice trade off. The main trick is to figure out what to do on trash, and what do do on bosses, making sure your weapons are on par, as well as your gear. You can't just go ok here are 2 daggers throw em this spot and this spot, and expect it to work. Im 75 right now and Im RARELY under 1300dps. I have SSC/TK gear for my mutilate spec though so I may be in a better spot. I WOULD do higher dps if I were combat though, because I have gear that suits that spec better. To me mutilate is just so much more fun. And its what I leveled as when it came available for the BC 60-70 grind.
Did some dummy testing after getting my 1.3 speed 130 dps MH, and maintained close to 1900 dps self buffed o.O I can't wait for naxx tonight, I'll update with group buffs and raid-buffed dps.
odnet wrote:
mutilate is not easy, thats one of the main reasons people are drawn to it who have played rogues since pre-bc.
HFB upkeep is retarded easy, its seriously no harder than keeping slice and dice up, and since slice and dice is so much easier to keep up now with the most popular mutilate spec, its a nice trade off. The main trick is to figure out what to do on trash, and what do do on bosses, making sure your weapons are on par, as well as your gear. You can't just go ok here are 2 daggers throw em this spot and this spot, and expect it to work. Im 75 right now and Im RARELY under 1300dps. I have SSC/TK gear for my mutilate spec though so I may be in a better spot. I WOULD do higher dps if I were combat though, because I have gear that suits that spec better. To me mutilate is just so much more fun. And its what I leveled as when it came available for the BC 60-70 grind.
HFB upkeep is retarded easy, its seriously no harder than keeping slice and dice up, and since slice and dice is so much easier to keep up now with the most popular mutilate spec, its a nice trade off. The main trick is to figure out what to do on trash, and what do do on bosses, making sure your weapons are on par, as well as your gear. You can't just go ok here are 2 daggers throw em this spot and this spot, and expect it to work. Im 75 right now and Im RARELY under 1300dps. I have SSC/TK gear for my mutilate spec though so I may be in a better spot. I WOULD do higher dps if I were combat though, because I have gear that suits that spec better. To me mutilate is just so much more fun. And its what I leveled as when it came available for the BC 60-70 grind.
It's not hard at all. It wasn't the issue. There is nothing inherently more difficult about Mut rotation than combat's. Issue was having to devote most of attention on HfB instead of watching surroundings, I simply do not like that aspect of Mut, as it forces you to feel stressed and annoyed, at least in my case.
Since everybody says it's hard to figure out a 'rotation' for trash mobs... What do people use for it?
Not so much a rotation as a priority list for your energy expenditure. In order of importance:
1.) Keep HfB up.
2.) Keep SnD up, using CttC-Evis after your initial 1-pt SnD.
3.) Use extra CP's for more Evis instead of Rupture. Redundant SnD refresh, but Rupture won't tick all the way out on trash, so it's not worth it.
4.) Pool energy for an Evis once mob approaches ~20% to refresh SnD, move on to next mob after using this Evis, regardless of whether current mob is dead so you're not stuck with 3-4 CP's on a dead mob.
Edited for clarity.
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 6:53pm by beardownmanup
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 6:54pm by beardownmanup
1.) Keep HfB up.
2.) Keep SnD up, using CttC-Evis after your initial 1-pt SnD.
3.) Use extra CP's for more Evis instead of Rupture. Redundant SnD refresh, but Rupture won't tick all the way out on trash, so it's not worth it.
4.) Pool energy for an Evis once mob approaches ~20% to refresh SnD, move on to next mob after using this Evis, regardless of whether current mob is dead so you're not stuck with 3-4 CP's on a dead mob.
Edited for clarity.
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 6:53pm by beardownmanup
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 6:54pm by beardownmanup
The above is all true, just thought I'd put in some pointers.
Mutilate is actually pretty good at switching. You just have to know what target you're switching to next before the current one is dead. When the trash mob you're on is at 5%-10% (depending on how much hp, the more they have the longer you can wait) switch to the next target so you have poisons up and have a mutilate on the target by the time everyone else switches. Manage your combo points so you aren't leaving 5 CP's on the thing that just died.
Other than that.. it's practice.
I hovered around 2100 dps on the bosses in spider wing last night, it's a lot of fun xD. Doing Abom and finishing up DK tonight.
Mutilate is actually pretty good at switching. You just have to know what target you're switching to next before the current one is dead. When the trash mob you're on is at 5%-10% (depending on how much hp, the more they have the longer you can wait) switch to the next target so you have poisons up and have a mutilate on the target by the time everyone else switches. Manage your combo points so you aren't leaving 5 CP's on the thing that just died.
Other than that.. it's practice.
I hovered around 2100 dps on the bosses in spider wing last night, it's a lot of fun xD. Doing Abom and finishing up DK tonight.
3.2k dps in the 25-man Wintergrasp vault. Didn't get any T7.25 or Deadly Glad gear though, rogue never drops =(
Banatu wrote:
PvE mute spec is 51/13/7. If you aren't that, you shouldn't be expecting serious dps potential. Here's what you're skipping out:
3% crit
5% hit
9% Damage
Free SnD
Especially for shorter fights, letting loose with an envenom instead of refreshing SnD is another 2k-4k damage every SnD refresh, or sooner depending on your CP generation. That's easily another 140 dps. Add in the gain in stats, and you're ripping sh*t up.
3% crit
5% hit
9% Damage
Free SnD
Especially for shorter fights, letting loose with an envenom instead of refreshing SnD is another 2k-4k damage every SnD refresh, or sooner depending on your CP generation. That's easily another 140 dps. Add in the gain in stats, and you're ripping sh*t up.
Could you please link the spec 51/13/7, I see were most points are used, but not sure about a few of them.
And the weapon choices are not as important now are they? I have been combat daggers for ever. Daggers still viable? or should I switch it up? and which poisons are going to be the best for this kinda build. Want a build for PvE.
thanks
Edited, Nov 30th 2008 10:30pm by hamletarcher
hamletarcher wrote:
Banatu wrote:
PvE mute spec is 51/13/7. If you aren't that, you shouldn't be expecting serious dps potential. Here's what you're skipping out:
3% crit
5% hit
9% Damage
Free SnD
Especially for shorter fights, letting loose with an envenom instead of refreshing SnD is another 2k-4k damage every SnD refresh, or sooner depending on your CP generation. That's easily another 140 dps. Add in the gain in stats, and you're ripping sh*t up.
3% crit
5% hit
9% Damage
Free SnD
Especially for shorter fights, letting loose with an envenom instead of refreshing SnD is another 2k-4k damage every SnD refresh, or sooner depending on your CP generation. That's easily another 140 dps. Add in the gain in stats, and you're ripping sh*t up.
Could you please link the spec 51/13/7, I see were most points are used, but not sure about a few of them.
And the weapon choices are not as important now are they? I have been combat daggers for ever. Daggers still viable? or should I switch it up? and which poisons are going to be the best for this kinda build. Want a build for PvE.
thanks
Edited, Nov 30th 2008 10:30pm by hamletarcher
51/13/7 should look like this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0efojxoVboIuVo0xV0hZxb (or 5/5 Lethality, 4/5 Improved Poisons)
Daggers are not only viable, but required for this spec, because of Mutilate.
Since you would have at least 4/5 Improved Poisons, you'll use Instant MH / Deadly OH. That's because currently, with less than 4/5 Improved Poisons, Wound actually provides more DPS than Instant. Also, with Cut to the Chase and Vile Poisons, you'll typically use Envenom over Eviscerate in your rotation.
His Excellency ThePizzaKing wrote:
hamletarcher wrote:
Banatu wrote:
PvE mute spec is 51/13/7. If you aren't that, you shouldn't be expecting serious dps potential. Here's what you're skipping out:
3% crit
5% hit
9% Damage
Free SnD
Especially for shorter fights, letting loose with an envenom instead of refreshing SnD is another 2k-4k damage every SnD refresh, or sooner depending on your CP generation. That's easily another 140 dps. Add in the gain in stats, and you're ripping sh*t up.
3% crit
5% hit
9% Damage
Free SnD
Especially for shorter fights, letting loose with an envenom instead of refreshing SnD is another 2k-4k damage every SnD refresh, or sooner depending on your CP generation. That's easily another 140 dps. Add in the gain in stats, and you're ripping sh*t up.
Could you please link the spec 51/13/7, I see were most points are used, but not sure about a few of them.
And the weapon choices are not as important now are they? I have been combat daggers for ever. Daggers still viable? or should I switch it up? and which poisons are going to be the best for this kinda build. Want a build for PvE.
thanks
Edited, Nov 30th 2008 10:30pm by hamletarcher
51/13/7 should look like this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0efojxoVboIuVo0xV0hZxb (or 5/5 Lethality, 4/5 Improved Poisons)
Daggers are not only viable, but required for this spec, because of Mutilate.
Since you would have at least 4/5 Improved Poisons, you'll use Instant MH / Deadly OH. That's because currently, with less than 4/5 Improved Poisons, Wound actually provides more DPS than Instant. Also, with Cut to the Chase and Vile Poisons, you'll typically use Envenom over Eviscerate in your rotation.
2/3 Ruthlessness, not 4/5 Lethality, bub.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Mal%27Ganis&n=Vulajin
So we are dropping 1pt from ruthlessness for vigor now? Or is that only for heroic & non-10/25man rogues?
With/without vigor glyph?
With/without vigor glyph?
Overlord Theophany wrote:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Mal%27Ganis&n=Vulajin
Bah, what does that guy know anyway ... he's a noob.
For those of you without a sense of humour, I'm kidding .. k?
He doesn't have it glyphed or you'd see him with 120 energy on his character sheet.
It's for energy pooling. And we've always dropped one point in Ruthlessness.
It's for energy pooling. And we've always dropped one point in Ruthlessness.
Hmm, it's not like there are many PvE glyphs. Maybe he has eviscerate + 10% crit for heroics.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
He doesn't have it glyphed or you'd see him with 120 energy on his character sheet.
It's for energy pooling. And we've always dropped one point in Ruthlessness.
It's for energy pooling. And we've always dropped one point in Ruthlessness.
1. If this is the case, update the sticky so there aren't 800 people with the same post.
2. I thought (maybe I was drunk, def. a possibility) that someone somewhere said that we needed Turn the Tables in every mutilate pve build. Was this for PvP instead? Am I losing my mind?
Edited, Dec 1st 2008 12:16pm by ThomasMagnum
You take Turn the Tables if you have a Ret Pally or Elly Shaman in the raid since Heart of the crusader, Totem of Wrath, and Master Poisoner all provide the same buff and don't stack.
wait wtf, pve mutilate is shooting for vigor now? that extra 10 energy is worth one less point in ruthlessness?
It is to me with the extra 10 energy the glyph gives you
GodOfMoo wrote:
You take Turn the Tables if you have a Ret Pally or Elly Shaman in the raid since Heart of the crusader, Totem of Wrath, and Master Poisoner all provide the same buff and don't stack.
Oh cool well i specced it and usually run with a ret pally
I'm a lazy *******.
I'm actually having better DPS by completely ignoring rupture. The main reason is because I don't get all flustered and let SnD or HFB drop. So if you kind of suck like me, you might actually be able to improve your DPS by changing your talent points slightly for improved eviscerate instead of blood splatter (take a point from improved poisons).
Open up with a TotT Mutilate, SnD, Mutilate or possibly two, Eviscerate.
When HFB gets low, refresh that, but besides that basically alternate Eviscerate and Mutilate(or two).
Raised my DPS by around 200. :P I'm sure if you can manage it you'll get better by all three, but its too much for me while running around and trying to not be dead.
p.s. I'm actually having a lot of problem with rule number one of DPS: do not die.
It seems like Blizzard went back and made every boss (on heroic) instablick rogues. Warriors and paladins have it to a lesser degree but they have more HP and a lot more armor. For instance, on Heroic Utgarde Pinnacle, the flying dragon guy that you have to harpoon. After you bring him down, he has this whirlwind ability that hits me for 18k per hit. Even when I try to run the second he spins, I'm guaranteed dead if I'm even missing a little HP. This hurts my DPS a lot, and my wallet a bit too.
I'm actually having better DPS by completely ignoring rupture. The main reason is because I don't get all flustered and let SnD or HFB drop. So if you kind of suck like me, you might actually be able to improve your DPS by changing your talent points slightly for improved eviscerate instead of blood splatter (take a point from improved poisons).
Open up with a TotT Mutilate, SnD, Mutilate or possibly two, Eviscerate.
When HFB gets low, refresh that, but besides that basically alternate Eviscerate and Mutilate(or two).
Raised my DPS by around 200. :P I'm sure if you can manage it you'll get better by all three, but its too much for me while running around and trying to not be dead.
p.s. I'm actually having a lot of problem with rule number one of DPS: do not die.
It seems like Blizzard went back and made every boss (on heroic) instablick rogues. Warriors and paladins have it to a lesser degree but they have more HP and a lot more armor. For instance, on Heroic Utgarde Pinnacle, the flying dragon guy that you have to harpoon. After you bring him down, he has this whirlwind ability that hits me for 18k per hit. Even when I try to run the second he spins, I'm guaranteed dead if I'm even missing a little HP. This hurts my DPS a lot, and my wallet a bit too.
I get that you can lay on 2 mutilates with 120 energy, but how much energy do you need to pool?
I mean I guess that the build has enough cp generation, but honestly I dont see how I could move one point of ruthlessness to vigor, what I had assumed was one of the most despised talents in the PvE community. Oh well you live and you learn. I dont think Ill rush to get that talent point in there, but Im using it as a glyph.
I mean I guess that the build has enough cp generation, but honestly I dont see how I could move one point of ruthlessness to vigor, what I had assumed was one of the most despised talents in the PvE community. Oh well you live and you learn. I dont think Ill rush to get that talent point in there, but Im using it as a glyph.
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