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Which spec can have the max dps output?Follow
8 posts
I was thinking to make a dps DK which can be used for leveling and in instance (also raid in the end game) not for pve. But seems both blood and frost has nice talent for dps. Wandering which one can max the dps output, regardless the gear. Anyone has some idea, or can post the build link. Thanks.
I would say unholy or blood for leveling (unholy if you plan on AoE grinding). End-game dps would be blood over unholy. Frost will give you burst damage, but overall blood is best for single target and unholy for multi target dps.
8 posts
Thanks for the reply. The talent build is nice. I have my dk and with similar build and now is a 71. my blood build was like . the plan will be same as yours in forst and unholy talent add at 80.
But later i tried to respec to frost tank for fun, then change to [link=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMqI0IcboxzAoGx00hZfM/. I failed to Tank in UK instance with a several reasons.. anyway, when i went to back to farming with my mage friend who is 70 (ice mage), we tried to figure out how to improve the aggro holding for myself. But during farming with normal mob arround lvl 70, we found out on single target my dps output is 54% and he is 46 %. We tried several times. He is always the one attack first. My gear is not good, just normal gear from quests. and the ice mage is his main with kara gear i think. That is why I am wandering if frost can make more dps than blood or not. I did not test blood spec with him so not sure if blood also behave same or even better.
May be I should re-organize my quest. If do not think about the the suvival ability of blood spec, and only focus on pure dps, does blood still win frost spec? (I am not talking about pve)
thanks
But later i tried to respec to frost tank for fun, then change to [link=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMqI0IcboxzAoGx00hZfM/. I failed to Tank in UK instance with a several reasons.. anyway, when i went to back to farming with my mage friend who is 70 (ice mage), we tried to figure out how to improve the aggro holding for myself. But during farming with normal mob arround lvl 70, we found out on single target my dps output is 54% and he is 46 %. We tried several times. He is always the one attack first. My gear is not good, just normal gear from quests. and the ice mage is his main with kara gear i think. That is why I am wandering if frost can make more dps than blood or not. I did not test blood spec with him so not sure if blood also behave same or even better.
May be I should re-organize my quest. If do not think about the the suvival ability of blood spec, and only focus on pure dps, does blood still win frost spec? (I am not talking about pve)
thanks
all 3 specs can do comparable dps... blood is slightly ahead but you can easily get away with any tree you like
that tree theo linked is for end game, so if you looking to level.. grab some of the self-healing talents (bloodworms and mark of blood at least... grab them all to farm your own elites)
find which playstyle you enjoy more while you level, and leave the min/max'ing to when your 80
i hope thats a typo, and you meant not for pvp* lol
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 12:16pm by mongoosexcore
that tree theo linked is for end game, so if you looking to level.. grab some of the self-healing talents (bloodworms and mark of blood at least... grab them all to farm your own elites)
find which playstyle you enjoy more while you level, and leave the min/max'ing to when your 80
Quote:
I was thinking to make a dps DK which can be used for leveling and in instance (also raid in the end game) not for pve
i hope thats a typo, and you meant not for pvp* lol
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 12:16pm by mongoosexcore
8 posts
sorry for the link which is not organized well, but the link works. (it is my first time post here)
8 posts
it is not type error.. I mean - i am not focusing on the dps on PvE.. just for single target.. such as a final boss in instance or raid.
o.O
the biggest thing PVE players focus on (as far as dps goes) is their dps vs a boss
sounds like your into pve to me lol.... pvp isnt all about maximizing your dps, boss fights are (usually)
the biggest thing PVE players focus on (as far as dps goes) is their dps vs a boss
sounds like your into pve to me lol.... pvp isnt all about maximizing your dps, boss fights are (usually)
lichroi wrote:
it is not type error.. I mean - i am not focusing on the dps on PvE.. just for single target.. such as a final boss in instance or raid.
final boss = PVE
You're thinking of trash mobs and/or AOE (large groups). Which is also PVE.
PVE = Player versus Environment (which means playing against computer (npc) opponents)
PVP = Player versus Player
8 posts
i re-link my spec. hope it works this time.
my blood spec was
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jf0GqucIsfMzzAoGx00o
my current frost spec is
http://http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EZGxxthIdo0oVosx0o
I am kind of new for WOW.. not doing a lot of raid before..mainly instance and quest. I agree with you that PVE is a main dps should count in instance and raid. just curious if my feeling in frost make higher dps than blood on single target is true or just wrong.
my blood spec was
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jf0GqucIsfMzzAoGx00o
my current frost spec is
http://http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EZGxxthIdo0oVosx0o
I am kind of new for WOW.. not doing a lot of raid before..mainly instance and quest. I agree with you that PVE is a main dps should count in instance and raid. just curious if my feeling in frost make higher dps than blood on single target is true or just wrong.
8 posts
thanks for the clarification of pve defination.. i was confused.
aight lichroi
ill quote something important, that answers your question
blood is a lil better then frost, but any tree spec'd somewhat well can do very good dps
if you wanna maximize your frost dps, see my frost faq... it has all the info youll need
if you wanna dps as blood, and be at the top of your game, see theo's build he linked in the second post of this thread
ill quote something important, that answers your question
i wrote this a few posts ago ^_- wrote:
all 3 specs can do comparable dps... blood is slightly ahead but you can easily get away with any tree you like
blood is a lil better then frost, but any tree spec'd somewhat well can do very good dps
if you wanna maximize your frost dps, see my frost faq... it has all the info youll need
if you wanna dps as blood, and be at the top of your game, see theo's build he linked in the second post of this thread
mongoosexcore wrote:
that tree theo linked is for end game, so if you looking to level.. grab some of the self-healing talents (bloodworms and mark of blood at least... grab them all to farm your own elites)
I find that I easily solo elite mobs 2 levels above mine with the build I linked.
Rune Tap and Glyph of Death Strike are plenty to keep me up (when I crit on DS I get 2400+ healing back).
8 posts
thanks a lot, that does help a lot for me.
Not challenge u, but you put 4 points in rune tap and improved rune tap which will add 20% of hp. If add 1 point to vampiric blood from improved rune tap, it should add more than pure 3 points in the improved rune tap - (10% +6.6%)x1.5=24% in final, and it also give 20 sec 50% upp for other blood restore effect (not sure if it stacks with Glyph of Death Strike ). yes, it will in the end cost 2 blood rune and longer cd for rune tap. But do you think it is worth to use?
Not challenge u, but you put 4 points in rune tap and improved rune tap which will add 20% of hp. If add 1 point to vampiric blood from improved rune tap, it should add more than pure 3 points in the improved rune tap - (10% +6.6%)x1.5=24% in final, and it also give 20 sec 50% upp for other blood restore effect (not sure if it stacks with Glyph of Death Strike ). yes, it will in the end cost 2 blood rune and longer cd for rune tap. But do you think it is worth to use?
Is Annihilation really worth the points in frost? It doesn't seem like the points you have to spend to get to it are worth it to me.
I'm liking the look of unholy as the secondary tree, like this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMqh0IsbRxzAoZf0hhxco
What do you think? Str buffs, shadow damage and blood-caked procs, etc seems pretty nice. How would this stack up against subbing frost?
I'm liking the look of unholy as the secondary tree, like this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMqh0IsbRxzAoZf0hhxco
What do you think? Str buffs, shadow damage and blood-caked procs, etc seems pretty nice. How would this stack up against subbing frost?
This is an area for debate right now, its more of an argument of DRW (which scales better with gear) versus Gargoyle than Frost versus Unholy. Annihilation is nice to get your death runes up.
Try both, there's nothing really written in stone right now despite what people would like to say.
Vampiric Blood is useless, I haven't had to use it or found a situation where I needed it while leveling or instancing, that includes solo-ing all of the elites in Dragonblight (except the Dragon).
Try both, there's nothing really written in stone right now despite what people would like to say.
Vampiric Blood is useless, I haven't had to use it or found a situation where I needed it while leveling or instancing, that includes solo-ing all of the elites in Dragonblight (except the Dragon).
8 posts
thanks a lot for both of the opinions. I never think about unholy tree.. but it looks nice too. I think it is more useful in solo, as when i solo, i mainly use a lot death strike (for Hp), but not obliterate. But in instance, as there is a healer, i use a lot of obliterate. I think I wil try both and see which is better for me.
lichroi wrote:
thanks a lot, that does help a lot for me.
Not challenge u, but you put 4 points in rune tap and improved rune tap which will add 20% of hp. If add 1 point to vampiric blood from improved rune tap, it should add more than pure 3 points in the improved rune tap - (10% +6.6%)x1.5=24% in final, and it also give 20 sec 50% upp for other blood restore effect (not sure if it stacks with Glyph of Death Strike ). yes, it will in the end cost 2 blood rune and longer cd for rune tap. But do you think it is worth to use?
Not challenge u, but you put 4 points in rune tap and improved rune tap which will add 20% of hp. If add 1 point to vampiric blood from improved rune tap, it should add more than pure 3 points in the improved rune tap - (10% +6.6%)x1.5=24% in final, and it also give 20 sec 50% upp for other blood restore effect (not sure if it stacks with Glyph of Death Strike ). yes, it will in the end cost 2 blood rune and longer cd for rune tap. But do you think it is worth to use?
I think you're misunderstanding what Vamp Blood does. It just increases incoming healing by 50%. It doesn't heal you for 50%.
Rune Tap is a pure--and instant-- 20% heal. Flat out.
Quote:
Wondering which one can max the dps output
Well the thing everyone is certain of is that Frost is the lowest DPS. Unholy and Blood actually swap places depending on situation, Blood is more like a Rogue in that it excels at single-target; Unholy begins to pull ahead in AoE situations. The motto of Blood is currently "Yes, Heart Strike really is that good" and it's the superior DPS of that Strike which permits Blood so much single-target nuking; if they nerf this ability in the future, Blood is in trouble. No DKs are packing full Heroic T7 yet so we can't see stats from the top of the gear spectrum, but it does appear that Blood scales more directly with AP (Abom. Str/DRW) so will continue to extend its advantage in the future. Blizzard have yet to successfully contain superior melee scaling at high gear levels, so I'd expect to see Rogues and Blood DKs pull ahead on DPS in future parses unless they totally botch the much-needed Enhance Shaman buff.
Quote:
Vampiric Blood is useless, I haven't had to use it or found a situation where I needed it while leveling or instancing
That's nuts.
If you're still referring to Dragonblight you havent made it to Heroics yet as a tank; in Heroics, Vampiric Blood is completely amazing. Many bosses have Enrage mechanics and at the current low gear level those Enrages hurt without a very well-tuned in healer; in those situations being able to buff all your incoming heals by fifty smegging percent is a lifesaver. The same is true for DPS when it's AoE time in Heroics, that 50% keeps you in the fight on stuff like Keriastrasza HC when she's pooning the tank for 8k, everyone has to keep moving, half the team is on low HP from Chains and the dumbass Rogue just walked through the fire breath. In that case, you will receive only minimal healer support and VB allows your self-heals to take up the slack.
It's good, just not good for soloing or pre-80.
Quote:
Rune Tap is a pure--and instant-- 20% heal. Flat out.
When talented. To be honest I predict a nerf to that ability, tank-geared DKs with 20k HP should not have an instant 4k heal (6 with VB) on such a short CD; I dont think its that bad, but Blizzard probably will. Anyone know if it can crit?
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 11:52pm by Sinstralis
Sinstralis wrote:
Quote:
Rune Tap is a pure--and instant-- 20% heal. Flat out.
When talented. To be honest I predict a nerf to that ability, tank-geared DKs with 20k HP should not have an instant 4k heal (6 with VB) on such a short CD; I dont think its that bad, but Blizzard probably will. Anyone know if it can crit?
It's almost useless in it's initial form for leveling.
And no, it can't crit.
Quote:
Well the thing everyone is certain of is that Frost is the lowest DPS. Unholy and Blood actually swap places depending on situation, Blood is more like a Rogue in that it excels at single-target; Unholy begins to pull ahead in AoE situations. The motto of Blood is currently "Yes, Heart Strike really is that good" and it's the superior DPS of that Strike which permits Blood so much single-target nuking; if they nerf this ability in the future, Blood is in trouble. No DKs are packing full Heroic T7 yet so we can't see stats from the top of the gear spectrum, but it does appear that Blood scales more directly with AP (Abom. Str/DRW) so will continue to extend its advantage in the future. Blizzard have yet to successfully contain superior melee scaling at high gear levels, so I'd expect to see Rogues and Blood DKs pull ahead on DPS in future parses unless they totally botch the much-needed Enhance Shaman buff.
im pretty sure for single target dps, its blood-frost-unholy
and for aoe, its unholy-frost-blood
so frost is good at both, best at none... i thinks anyway
and frost will gain ground with better gear.... its main FU move is obliterate (same with blood), and frost strike actually scales well with weapon dps
will it pass blood? i doubt it, but something to note nonetheless
I'm looking to tweak my Blood build somewhat. At the moment my sub tree is Unholy. The only talent in Frost which really makes me even want to consider it is Annihilation, but is it really so good that I should miss out on Blood-Caked Blade?
Just checking out Theo's build and had some queries. As an endgame build, why no Blood Aura? tbh I've not done any research to see if it stacks with Blood Presence so it might be all but useless for the DK themselves, but endgame is a nice little talent.
Personally, I'd also prefer Bloodworms as the self-heal topup rather than imp Rune Tap. If it used any other rune, I'd be all over that talent, but using it takes away one of my Heart Strikes, I don't like that one bit.
Just checking out Theo's build and had some queries. As an endgame build, why no Blood Aura? tbh I've not done any research to see if it stacks with Blood Presence so it might be all but useless for the DK themselves, but endgame is a nice little talent.
Personally, I'd also prefer Bloodworms as the self-heal topup rather than imp Rune Tap. If it used any other rune, I'd be all over that talent, but using it takes away one of my Heart Strikes, I don't like that one bit.
theos build is max dps
self healing isnt dps, so... spice to taste, but use that for max dps... disregarding all else that a blood dk brings to the table
self healing isnt dps, so... spice to taste, but use that for max dps... disregarding all else that a blood dk brings to the table
So basicly in short theo's build can be used for leveling. DK is currently 60 with this build: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMq0cIcf0tzAo
Anything you see wrong. I'm just leveling and grinding. Theo with your build even though you don't have blood worms or MoB...do you still end the fight with full health. I think I've specced wrong. Blood worms for some reason always comes out right as the mob is almost dead. It'll get to about 5% health then worms will pop. I feel I've waisted my points. >< Just wanting to breeze through quests and get to northrend asap. Thanks for those whom reply.
Anything you see wrong. I'm just leveling and grinding. Theo with your build even though you don't have blood worms or MoB...do you still end the fight with full health. I think I've specced wrong. Blood worms for some reason always comes out right as the mob is almost dead. It'll get to about 5% health then worms will pop. I feel I've waisted my points. >< Just wanting to breeze through quests and get to northrend asap. Thanks for those whom reply.
Souliken wrote:
Theo with your build even though you don't have blood worms or MoB...do you still end the fight with full health.
Yes.
Mob is short for "mobile" BTW, from back in the days of MUDs. You don't need to capitalize the M or the B.
swing and a miss theo, he meant mark of blood ;)
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