I'm pretty sure I'm right, because if I'm not then life will make my head hurt. :( But if not I need someone to explain to me why I was wrong.
Anyway, was having kind of a weird discussion with another hunter in my guild, about ranged weapon speed. He said that MM is all about slow heavy-hitting weapons, but BM should go for the fastest bow/gun possible because their damage strategy is based around firing as many quick, weak shots as possible. My argument was that DPS is always more important than weapon speed, but weapon DPS and all other stats being equal, any hunter should go for the slower weapon for the benefit of skills that use a percent of weapon damage, like Kill Shot. It seems silly to think that using more shots to do the same amount of (autoshot) damage could be a good thing--it's not so bad as melee where the more hits you do, the more chances you have to be parried, but it's just wasteful of ammo and kind of a weird strategy.
What got me wondering is that this guy is one of the hunter officers (but he is MM and seems to have only a fuzzy understanding of BM, so who knows). I shouldn't really be looking for a fast weapon, should I?
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I am no expert but as far as i know for BM Hunters it has to be slower is better , as BM has all those talents ant trinkets that speed up shots but of course you can only go so fast as i guess ? think there is a lower limit of speed we can use , plus the fact of a lower weapon going far faster has to increase damage a lot more than an already faster weapon even if they both do the same standard damage.
I guess i have that about right if not the correct way to describe it ?.
I guess i have that about right if not the correct way to describe it ?.
Autos and steadies are unlinked now. BM hunters can, with talents alone, fire fast enough to hit the best firing cycle with even a relatively slow weapon. MM and SV need haste gear to hit that, which is plentiful in LK.
Check out some of the LK theorycraft threads, they cover this in more detail.
Check out some of the LK theorycraft threads, they cover this in more detail.
sandralover wrote:
plus the fact of a lower weapon going far faster has to increase damage a lot more than an already faster weapon even if they both do the same standard damage.
Huh?
Possibly your friend was talking about pvp?! I'm not an expert on anything in the least but i would take my chances to crit on 3 shots before someone gets into melee distance rather then hope to crit on possibly 1 shot. Just my 2 cents i know nothing of game numbers.
How is he one of the hunter officers and only have a fuzzy idea of how BM hunters play? Didn't we spend over a year saying that MM sucked, and that the only way to raid was BM or have 1 SV hunter for 25-man raiding? =\ Sorry, tangent. It doesn't matter.
Benefits of a slower weapon: Viper is based off of weapon speed. The slower the weapon, the bigger the mana return (personally, I'm still a little skeptical about this one). Less ammo use.
Benefits of a faster weapon: More Imp Aspect of the Hawk Procs.
Unless Kill Shot breaks every rule that Blizzard has set over the last two years, weapon speed doesn't matter for special shots. They're all normalized to 2.8.
Edit: Ehh... Slow weapon for viper thing sounds like it contradicts specials being normalized. It baffled everyone, too. It originally returned Mana based on DPS, but they changed it to be based off of weapon speed. It's stupid and it really hurt the hunters with a large mana pool.
Edited, Nov 24th 2008 3:25pm by ProjectMidnight
Benefits of a slower weapon: Viper is based off of weapon speed. The slower the weapon, the bigger the mana return (personally, I'm still a little skeptical about this one). Less ammo use.
Benefits of a faster weapon: More Imp Aspect of the Hawk Procs.
Unless Kill Shot breaks every rule that Blizzard has set over the last two years, weapon speed doesn't matter for special shots. They're all normalized to 2.8.
Edit: Ehh... Slow weapon for viper thing sounds like it contradicts specials being normalized. It baffled everyone, too. It originally returned Mana based on DPS, but they changed it to be based off of weapon speed. It's stupid and it really hurt the hunters with a large mana pool.
Edited, Nov 24th 2008 3:25pm by ProjectMidnight
Steady Shot goes off weapon damage now doesn't it? Shouldn't that alone push us towards slower weapons all things being equal.
ProjectMidnight wrote:
Benefits of a slower weapon: Viper is based off of weapon speed. The slower the weapon, the bigger the mana return (personally, I'm still a little skeptical about this one). Less ammo use.
Benefits of a faster weapon: More Imp Aspect of the Hawk Procs.
Unless Kill Shot breaks every rule that Blizzard has set over the last two years, weapon speed doesn't matter for special shots. They're all normalized to 2.8.
Edit: Ehh... Slow weapon for viper thing sounds like it contradicts specials being normalized. It baffled everyone, too. It originally returned Mana based on DPS, but they changed it to be based off of weapon speed. It's stupid and it really hurt the hunters with a large mana pool.
Benefits of a faster weapon: More Imp Aspect of the Hawk Procs.
Unless Kill Shot breaks every rule that Blizzard has set over the last two years, weapon speed doesn't matter for special shots. They're all normalized to 2.8.
Edit: Ehh... Slow weapon for viper thing sounds like it contradicts specials being normalized. It baffled everyone, too. It originally returned Mana based on DPS, but they changed it to be based off of weapon speed. It's stupid and it really hurt the hunters with a large mana pool.
I'm confused though, how does it hurt hunters with big mana pools? it's still a % based return, so more mana = more return. as far as I know it always has been, I certainly don't remember anything else in the beta, although I wasn't in the early beta. the % is the weapon speed. now of course it's half that and half passive.
Hawk is nice an all, but I'm pretty sure I saw some data over at ej a while ago that indicated that the effect was negligible, of course with identical weapons, go for the faster on, money is easy to get, and people don't seem to be having mana issues atm.
Conclusion, take the weapon with the best dps/stats.
Or, you know, just use the spreadsheet.
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Quote:
sandralover wrote:
plus the fact of a lower weapon going far faster has to increase damage a lot more than an already faster weapon even if they both do the same standard damage.
Huh?
plus the fact of a lower weapon going far faster has to increase damage a lot more than an already faster weapon even if they both do the same standard damage.
Huh?
Oops ? should have said a slower weapon going faster must be better (increasing damage better) than an already fast weapon that cannot go much faster if you are BM ? think thats clearer ?
Ahh seems i need to double check the figures i was getting off different weapons that i now have , as i have two bows and a crossbow and the slightly less damage one which is also the fastest seems to do slightly better ? Am i crazy in thinking there is little difference between the Valanos and the first two quest ranged weapons in the tundra ?
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 5:14pm by sandralover
For the most part, weapon speed will only effect white damage. Whether you have a fast weapon or not is not a big factor anymore with the unlinking of autoshot. Some things to consider is that our main shot, Steady Shot, is based on unmodified weapon damage (plus other factors like ammo and and a RAP modifier) and for the most part slower weapons have a higher weapon damage range. The most important stat to look for is not weapon speed as haste. The ideal haste rating is one that will allow your casting time of Steady Shot to be cut down to 1.5 (which is the GCD). There are other posts in the forums addressing how much haste is needed for this.
I hope this helps!
I hope this helps!
#11REDACTED,
Posted: Nov 25 2008 at 4:28 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Sometimes I wonder why they even have a karma system on these forums.
Yuppley wrote:
Sometimes I wonder why they even have a karma system on these forums.
And I quite often wonder why people only come into threads to comment on it without adding in the least to the ongoing discussion.
Then I rate them down and move on, feeling better.
If only that wasn't the most hypocritical thing that I've ever seen before.
I say, tell your guild leader to quiz his class leaders before he appoints them with a special position, because if they don't know every aspect of a spec that they don't play, why should they be able to have a voice over someone who actually plays that spec?
Edited, Nov 26th 2008 2:48pm by Yuppley
I say, tell your guild leader to quiz his class leaders before he appoints them with a special position, because if they don't know every aspect of a spec that they don't play, why should they be able to have a voice over someone who actually plays that spec?
Edited, Nov 26th 2008 2:48pm by Yuppley
sandralover wrote:
Oops ? should have said a slower weapon going faster must be better (increasing damage better) than an already fast weapon that cannot go much faster if you are BM ? think thats clearer ?
Ahh seems i need to double check the figures i was getting off different weapons that i now have , as i have two bows and a crossbow and the slightly less damage one which is also the fastest seems to do slightly better ? Am i crazy in thinking there is little difference between the Valanos and the first two quest ranged weapons in the tundra ?
Ahh seems i need to double check the figures i was getting off different weapons that i now have , as i have two bows and a crossbow and the slightly less damage one which is also the fastest seems to do slightly better ? Am i crazy in thinking there is little difference between the Valanos and the first two quest ranged weapons in the tundra ?
For overall dps the speed of the weapon will have no effect whatsoever. None. Sorry. haste is a % increase. 10% increase is independent of your weapon speed.
The only thing that speed can affect these days is the mana regen in viper. An in this case it's only the regen from specials that it affects, as it's normalized to white damage. Cheers!
Edited, Nov 26th 2008 10:46am by Xsarus
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