+ Hit versus + DamFollow

for leveling, you only need 7% hit (your level +2), once you hit 80 you're back aiming for the hit cap (17%), now seeing as i presume you have 3% talented hit.. you only need 4% to gain full resist immunity (on non-binary spells, which can still full resist due to the 'partial resist = full resist' for them). 4% hit at your level is like... 80 hit rating at best. heck check my armory. I've had 1 gear upgrade currently, my feet and i'm lvl.75 currently, so i haven't had to worry about loosing hit... yet. though i'm hitting the point where all my non-T6 gear is finally about to get upgraded.. to blues *cry*.

so yeah, you can afford to drop down to about 80 hit rating. at level 80 you need 26+hit rating for 1% +hit.

here's a list of hit ratings needed to be hit capped without talented hit at level 80:

105 hit rating to be hit capped vs a lvl.80 target
157 hit rating to be capped vs a lvl.82 target (all trash mobs)
447 hit to be capped vs a lvl.83 (?? boss) target (all bosses)

now for with 3% talented hit

26 hit rating to be hit capped vs a lvl.80 target
78 hit rating to be capped vs a lvl.82 target (all trash mobs)
368 hit to be capped vs a lvl.83 (?? boss) target (all bosses)

now with 3% talented hit and 3% hit debuff on target from raid (Spriest misery / druid faerie fire, so 6% hit)

0 hit rating to be hit capped vs a lvl.80 target
0 hit rating to be capped vs a lvl.82 target (all trash mobs)
289 hit to be capped vs a lvl.83 (?? boss) target (all bosses)

now for us alliance, all the above AND draenai aura :D heheheh

0 hit rating to be hit capped vs a lvl.80 target
0 hit rating to be capped vs a lvl.82 target (all trash mobs)
263 hit to be capped vs a lvl.83 (?? boss) target (all bosses)

so basically, at lvl.80 presume your 'hit cap' in a raid AND for solo is 78 on trash and 289 on bosses, this way you'll always be hit capped :)

POST EDIT

i'm afliction leveling too, simply it beats everything else at speed and lack of reccing. the only thing it lacks is the ability to solo some of the 3-5 player quests, which would be soloable as a demo build. and for raiding i'll be going destruction too, though not the usual spec, personnaly I don't see it working in a long run fight... also I dislike the use of corruption and the corruption glyph as a destruction lock.. to mana inefficient and imo, in a long run fight it's a dps decrease due to the increased need to lifetap.
this is the spec, 5/13/53 that i'm going to sport at lvl.80 in raids, obviously if it turns out to not be competitive I'll have to swap spec.. but from my own theorycrafting I see this as being a top contender. for glyphs I'd use CoA, imp and immolate.

to explain how it works. the choice of the talents in demo are there to get down to demonic aegis. 180 from felarmor goes to 234 +dmg, and the 30% bonus from spirit goes to 39%. this increase alone beats the bonus gained from taking the fire and brimstone talent. you've got 3% bonus to hit across the board and 10% bonus to the 1 afliction spell you'll be using. which actually fits in pretty nicely as a rotation when glyphed to a 28sec duration. for spells you're using CB, incinerate, CoA, immolate and conflagorate. everyone knows that there's a very tight backdraft rotation available, and that you should cast CB whenever it's up. end result is, imo, a strong dps contender.

Edited, Nov 24th 2008 6:07am by Jenovaomega

there's no hit on leveling gear because... well it's leveling gear. get atlasloot enchanced and check the gear dropped from lvl.80 heroics. ALOT more hit there. though you're unlikely to be hit capped before getting your T7 gear simply because.. well it's like it was at lvl.70, the starting gear simply isn't meant to be that good.

oh, and read the end of my previous post. I edited it and added extra stuff, just you replied before I could send it :P

with all the new talents and stuff, the imp pushes out like 350 dps on it's own at level.70, so lvl.80 who knows.. 600+ i presume. it's a powerful pet now regardless, and it basically can't die in a raid anymore. heck from my own experience in sunwell, the only time my imp would die is if a mob targets it (which would kill pretty much anyone anyways) or to the 50+k damage aoe thing KJ does if i don't get the imp into the bubble in time. otherwise, defensive with auto shoot ftw.
personnaly I'm not a fan of the demo tree and i don't want to go the 0/31/30 or whatever the spec is.. (felguard/emberstorm) which is supposedly turning alot of heads currently. I'm adamant that my spec will work and that it could be the long run dps contender for us. heck I was right back at 70 about specs and gearing way before everyone else caught on, so hopefully I'll manage the same this time :)

think of it this way. whats more important? 4% increase stamina OR 30% decreased damage to your pet when you know you can't get it out of harms way? (so keeping it alive and it's imba dps). 30% damage reduction to the imp for a direct damage attack on it is more than enough to keep it alive, and 30% decrease on 20% damage taken from aoe damage means the imp 'arguably' could survive the aoe damage KJ does without even being in the bubble... LOL

POST EDIT

ya, had to talk myself up a bit. there's been so few interesting topics on here as of late that I've had no chance to :P

Edited, Nov 24th 2008 7:29am by Jenovaomega

seeing as, at 70 the imp pushed out about 350 of my dps. spending 1-2 seconds channeling a spell to keep it alive ('cos no ability targeted at it / super OP powerful aoe will last longer than this) is in the end, the dps increasing choice. if your pet dies you loose out on so much damage that it's actually worthwhile wasting the time recasting it if the pet dies early in a boss fight.

and 4% stamina means nothing. seeing as all afliction locks will raid without that talent, and all dest/af will raid without it.. and well.. lots of specs will go without that talent. it's not needed at all and the increase in health from it is completely negligable in pve. regardless we get more stamina on our gear than most classes, we have more health anyways and if they can survive with less health, then we can survive just as easily without the talent. in the end, there's alot more benefit from the improved healthfunnel than 4% increased stam.

Edited, Nov 24th 2008 7:58am by Jenovaomega

Where did u get the idea affliction fails in 10/25 man.
It offers better raid viability and equal to better damage on bosses.

it lacks a bit on thrash but is superior in mana useage/movement(kiting)

in a 10 man raid u will in most occaisons be able to bring a debuff (CoE/CoR/CoW) if specced for it.

it failed at 70 due to lack of talent points. it will work at 80, though it still doesn't scale as well demo or destruction specs, so it can't complete end game. also the 'raid utility' is bullc.rap, deathknights and moonkins both provide an equal debuff to improved CoE, but without the hassel of needed to be casted, so not decreasing their dps. afliction might beable to compete in T7 content.. but the moment the next instances come out it won't compete.

on the other hand how much of this scaling really applies.

affliction benefits of all stats and still has ISB, shadows embrace and death's embrace which are all good for scaling. (where destruction still has shadow and flame which is also a insane scaling talent)

destruction and demonology also have CoA and corruption which also dont scale well with the better gear.

I know some of u guys like jenova have better insight then me but still im curious how affliction will perform in high end gear. (i dont think anyone is in a position to assume it will be outscaled by destruction or demonology)

im just hoping for heavy movement fights otherwise :P

I might just do last two levels as Demo actually. For fun - and to test the Voidy on Elites so I can solo group quests which, I'm sorry, you can't do as pure affliction.

Pretty much the conclusion I came to regarding raid utility. We don't provide it anymore.

Leave it to the druids, palas and priests (and now DKs) and go mage/rogue style DPS...without the additional CC utility - we really ARE just damage dealers. Revel in it!

In fact - check this. I ran UK with two DKs over the weekend. I was 76, they were 72. Frost spec tanked (quite well too) and Blood spec DPS'd - he out did me on DPS on everything but the bosses. Didn't matter what I tried. CoE, Corr, SB - outdone. CoE, SB - outdone. Haunt, Corr Immo, SB - outdone.

Only on bosses where I could just rotate my DoTs and cast one SB every time I refreshed UA did I outdo him. Admittedly, I outdid him by doing 42% of total damage compared to his 26% so it IS a good build, but still...for an overall run, I sucked compared to a DK 4 levels below me.

Says it all to me.

think of it this way... afliction locks don't need crit as much, so they won't gear for it much. you'll beable to get... at best like 4 SBs in between a haunt rotation, and direct damage spells make up like 30.. maybe 40% of your damage (and ISB doesn't affect dots anymore.. which sucks) if you're lucky at best. also come 20% on a boss, you stop using shadowbolt and start using drain soul instead as the 400% damage bonus, mixed in with soul siphon and all the dot increase bonuses leads drain soul to do more dps than SB after 20%. ISB is a completely wasted talent. you're better off taking those 5 talent points, putting 3 in cataclysm and 2 in molton core. 'cos seeing how much shadow dot damage you're dealing, the molton core proc will be up constantly, so what's better? a 10% damage proc on CRIT... something you rarely do as afliction due to not much crit rating AND not much casting of SBs. OR a 99% perminant 10% bonus to fire damage, so basically a passive 10% bonus to your immolate and 2% improved hit chance for destruction spells.

POST EDIT

ISB has basically become useless, heck it's only use prior to the patch was the 20% bonus damage (and so health/mana) to shadowpriests and shadow damage in general, specifically to dots. back then if ISB didn't affect dots/others, then 0/21/40fire would of been the winning dps spec for us, not 0/21/40 shadow.

Edited, Nov 24th 2008 12:45pm by Jenovaomega

I'm loving Demo. I do great damage with it. Even Destro it frrls like on trash I can't get to my damage potential. By the time I throw Chaos Bolt, get Corr up for Molten Core procs, Immolate then start Incinerate, well, maybe get one incinerate.

On Boss's I did better. I felt worthless on trash though.

As Demo on trash, just put up Corr for "nightfall" procs, if you have the glyph, and SB Spam away. I'm near untouchable on meters with trash and boss's with my Demo Spec. Plus I'm usually providing everyone with a buff I do not believe gets overwritten by anything. Demonic Pact. The only other spell power buff is from shammy totems. I think it nuffs around 140-150? With my Spell Damage I buff more than that, to all casters and healers.

Hehe, thanks for the advice.
I too feel that trash DPS is not my cup of tea, but we're 5 RL friends, and we get competitive over most things.
DPS is now the "in" thing to be competitive about, and they don't care if it's trash or boss, as long as they're beating me

I'll stick to corruption/shadow bolts on trash, since Curse of Elements will give that Mage the upper hand