I know mut/prep, and to a lesser extent, ShD, are currently touted as the best PvP specs. I haven't seen much discussion, however, about the effectiveness of a deep combat spec. Honestly, I don't see why this is:
-Throwing specialization is huge. When you see people speculating about using the level 70 blue rep PvP gloves in level 80 arena solely for the interrupt, it's a sign something is lolbroken. An interrupting Fan of Knives has some serious potential as well. Can anyone provide some insight into the wording of the tooltip? It currently states: "...and gives your Deadly Throw and Fan of Knives abilities a 100% chance to interrupt the target for 3 sec." Does this mean only your current target will be interrupted by your FoK? Or everything that it hits?
-Endurance/Imp Sprint. The expansion did nothing to address mut's mobility problems. The damage is great, but worthless if you can't stay on target, which becomes the case more and more often as a match wears on and you start running out of cooldowns. And with Shadowstep unusable while snared, the mobility of a subtlety spec has been greatly compromised. Got a snare breaker on a two minute cooldown (not to mention all the other nice bonuses that come with filling out these two talents...4% increased stam, 2-min evasion)? Yes, but in the combat tree, which is supposedly *not for PvP*.
-Blade Twisting. Ignoring the damage increase to SS, which is already AWESOME for two points, this talent makes losing vile poisons a lot easier to swallow. Crippling getting dispelled becomes less of an issue when you've got an equivalent physical effect (granted, you're unable to apply it on demand, but it's still a nice bonus.) In before people start screaming about wound poison being what vile poisons is really supposed to protect: I know, keeping the healing debuff on your burn target is the most valuable aspect of vile poisons, but with wound nerfed to a 1-stack, you're gonna lose your debuff quite a bit anyways, even with vile.
-Mace Spec. This one is debatable, and I'd appreciate some input on this front. Which weapon spec do you see being most valuable for PvP? I see it as a tossup between mace and sword, since resilience negates some of the benefits you'd reap from CQC. 15% armor ignore is a really attractive damage boost, but I'm not sure if it outdoes sword spec. Thoughts?
-Vitality/Adrenaline Rush. The attraction here goes without saying. Does anyone know if these two talents synergize to give an effective 187.5 (as opposed to 150) energy over AR's duration? I assume they would, but Blizzard has done stranger things in the past.
-Nerves of Steel. The rest of the combat tree could be absolute trash (improved bandanges, anyone?) and this talent could probably make up for it. I can't say enough about how valuable this is. Especially taking into consideration how burst-oriented the first season of level 80 PvP will be, this talent makes rogues a much more unattractive burn target; something combat rogues of seasons past have not been able to enjoy.
A question about this talent: How does the damage reduction interact with fear break mechanics? Fear is supposedly programmed to automatically end after you've taken a certain amount of damage...anyone else see the issue here?
-Unfair Advantage. Put the hurt on melee cleave teams trying to gib you. More reasons to think twice about training the combat rogue.
-Killing Spree. Using this after AR extends your burst sequence, adding that much more pressure to anyone trying to keep your target alive. Combine with Blade Flurry when the opportunity arises for some extra fun.
Am I totally missing something here? Combat seems like a damn fine PvP tree to me. Granted, it probably doesn't have enough burst to outshine mut/prep in 2s, but the (quite obscene, really) sustained damage you can maintain in a drawn-out match when running with a healer in 3's and 5's certainly warrants some consideration.
I'm thinking something like this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZMghd0bEorurgRze0ddI
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Merits of combat PvPFollow
I tried it on the PTR's;
I suppose it might work in the arenas when combined with the right class (a stunlocking rogue for example), but I think that's it. The thing is, even with imp sprint and Killing Spree (which works an awful lot like ShS in PvP), you seriously lack mobility... When I did a game of Warsong Gulch with it, I found myself being able to melee one opponent to death every 2 minutes; whenever vanish and/or sprint were on CD it was so incredibly easy to kite me that I found myself chasing my target 90% of the time and doing damage 10% of it. A mage for example would simply rip you apart.
I might've overlooked something, and it might've changed (getting Theo off my back here), but I think the mobility loss is simply too great to cope with, no matter how awesome your melee damage is. I'd love to see someone try it though, it might pack more of a punch than I'm guessing.
P.S. I think FoK interrupts everybody it hits, not just your current target. I can't confirm it, but when compared to abilities which work somewhat similar (Prayer of Healing+procs), that's the impression I get.
P.S.2. Last time I checked, sword spec > mace spec, at least for raiding. I'm passing that on to Theo though, no idea what would happen in PvP.
P.S.3. I *think* (once again, not sure) a thread in the warlock forums said that fear breaks whenever enough damage has been dealt equal to X% of the (base?) health of the target. Regardless, I think -30% damage while feared would be more often beneficial than harmful.
I suppose it might work in the arenas when combined with the right class (a stunlocking rogue for example), but I think that's it. The thing is, even with imp sprint and Killing Spree (which works an awful lot like ShS in PvP), you seriously lack mobility... When I did a game of Warsong Gulch with it, I found myself being able to melee one opponent to death every 2 minutes; whenever vanish and/or sprint were on CD it was so incredibly easy to kite me that I found myself chasing my target 90% of the time and doing damage 10% of it. A mage for example would simply rip you apart.
I might've overlooked something, and it might've changed (getting Theo off my back here), but I think the mobility loss is simply too great to cope with, no matter how awesome your melee damage is. I'd love to see someone try it though, it might pack more of a punch than I'm guessing.
P.S. I think FoK interrupts everybody it hits, not just your current target. I can't confirm it, but when compared to abilities which work somewhat similar (Prayer of Healing+procs), that's the impression I get.
P.S.2. Last time I checked, sword spec > mace spec, at least for raiding. I'm passing that on to Theo though, no idea what would happen in PvP.
P.S.3. I *think* (once again, not sure) a thread in the warlock forums said that fear breaks whenever enough damage has been dealt equal to X% of the (base?) health of the target. Regardless, I think -30% damage while feared would be more often beneficial than harmful.
note about the weapon specs:
armor ignore gets better the more armor your fighting.... so think like this
sword spec for cloth -------------- mace for plate
find out what you wanna be good against armor wise, and spec accordingly
15% of 20k is a lot more then 15% of 4k
---------------
i was lookin at your build
and you seem damn ready to toe-to-toe a warrior.. but thats about it
aside from AR, you lack strong burst... and classes that kite you are gonna ruin your sh*t like that (lets fight a frost mage, who youll have x seconds of dps to kill him before he re-kites you)
i garuntee if you get cc'd during AR, you are not going to kill him
or an affliction lock CoEX kiting
or a druid healer
or a hunter
you some snare breakers, but when you run out.. you are out
its like the old-school fire mage pvp.... great, until you run outta steam (which was quickly)
in theory a healer is the partner of choice... but sustained dps is WAY easier to heal through.. so its counter productive assuming your fighting teams with healers.... focused sections of dps/cc will hafta be longer to account for any reliable burst on demand (i dont count AR as reliable, since thats the biggest 'kite me now' ability rogues have... no one is that stupid to think they can out play a rogue in AR)
examples? sure
frost DKs have a 30% snares, and a complete immobilize, on VERY short timers... so you dont be kiting them... and if you AR their partner, deathgrip+CoI just wasted at LEAST 5-10 seconds of it
hunters will kite you, and heaven forbid you get range on them, the new disengage will take care of that.. youll burn everything you got, just to get scattershotted/intimidationed when you pop your dps talents
retadins will see UA coming, and burst your sh*t down while your stunned so you cant dodge... they got options for when you disarm them, and pound for pound will burst you before you sustained-dps them
your partner would be the key.. but anything healing partner would be better with muti imo... and anything full-on dps would work better with shadow dance
its a nice idea, but if you wanna raid and pvp, just go muti imo, being different isnt always better... and its great to think outside the box, but this just doesnt seem like an idea that have enough merit besides if you want that extra few % dps in raids, and cant shell out 50g to respec for arena
will be fine for bg's im sure.... but i think arena, so you see the issues i hope ^_^
good thinkin though
Edited, Nov 24th 2008 2:22pm by mongoosexcore
armor ignore gets better the more armor your fighting.... so think like this
sword spec for cloth -------------- mace for plate
find out what you wanna be good against armor wise, and spec accordingly
15% of 20k is a lot more then 15% of 4k
---------------
i was lookin at your build
and you seem damn ready to toe-to-toe a warrior.. but thats about it
aside from AR, you lack strong burst... and classes that kite you are gonna ruin your sh*t like that (lets fight a frost mage, who youll have x seconds of dps to kill him before he re-kites you)
i garuntee if you get cc'd during AR, you are not going to kill him
or an affliction lock CoEX kiting
or a druid healer
or a hunter
you some snare breakers, but when you run out.. you are out
its like the old-school fire mage pvp.... great, until you run outta steam (which was quickly)
in theory a healer is the partner of choice... but sustained dps is WAY easier to heal through.. so its counter productive assuming your fighting teams with healers.... focused sections of dps/cc will hafta be longer to account for any reliable burst on demand (i dont count AR as reliable, since thats the biggest 'kite me now' ability rogues have... no one is that stupid to think they can out play a rogue in AR)
examples? sure
frost DKs have a 30% snares, and a complete immobilize, on VERY short timers... so you dont be kiting them... and if you AR their partner, deathgrip+CoI just wasted at LEAST 5-10 seconds of it
hunters will kite you, and heaven forbid you get range on them, the new disengage will take care of that.. youll burn everything you got, just to get scattershotted/intimidationed when you pop your dps talents
retadins will see UA coming, and burst your sh*t down while your stunned so you cant dodge... they got options for when you disarm them, and pound for pound will burst you before you sustained-dps them
your partner would be the key.. but anything healing partner would be better with muti imo... and anything full-on dps would work better with shadow dance
its a nice idea, but if you wanna raid and pvp, just go muti imo, being different isnt always better... and its great to think outside the box, but this just doesnt seem like an idea that have enough merit besides if you want that extra few % dps in raids, and cant shell out 50g to respec for arena
will be fine for bg's im sure.... but i think arena, so you see the issues i hope ^_^
good thinkin though
Edited, Nov 24th 2008 2:22pm by mongoosexcore
The thing is, why does everyone seem to think mut/prep is so much more mobile than imp sprint/endurance? You get an extra vanish, and an extra sprint. The extra sprint doesn't do that much, really, since it won't break any snares. I'll concede the point of an extra vanish, but after you've blown prep, you're just as SoL as combat, except for the fact that my imp sprint will be back up in two minutes.
I should clarify that my concerns are in reference to arena PvP.
@ mongoose:
Point taken about the benefits of mace spec, although 15% of 4k armor is still 600 ar pen, which is nothing to sneeze at. Three points in serrated blades, as a reference point, is worth 640 ar pen at level 80.
You sound distraught about facing a kiting class as combat spec, but what comfort is mut/prep gonna give you in mobility that combat can't offer? Or sub? Shadowstep is nice, but like I mentioned previously, not being able to use it while immobilized really took the power out of it.
I agree that popping AR lights up a big <CC ME NAO> sign over my head, but back in the days of HARP, I could usually coordinate with my partner well enough to avoid eating a big CC chain 90% of the time.
The potential for burst isn't that bad, really. Killing Spree is hugely underrated in this regard, I think. Riposte, when it lights up, makes for some decent burst as well, being so cheap.
I should clarify that my concerns are in reference to arena PvP.
@ mongoose:
Point taken about the benefits of mace spec, although 15% of 4k armor is still 600 ar pen, which is nothing to sneeze at. Three points in serrated blades, as a reference point, is worth 640 ar pen at level 80.
You sound distraught about facing a kiting class as combat spec, but what comfort is mut/prep gonna give you in mobility that combat can't offer? Or sub? Shadowstep is nice, but like I mentioned previously, not being able to use it while immobilized really took the power out of it.
I agree that popping AR lights up a big <CC ME NAO> sign over my head, but back in the days of HARP, I could usually coordinate with my partner well enough to avoid eating a big CC chain 90% of the time.
The potential for burst isn't that bad, really. Killing Spree is hugely underrated in this regard, I think. Riposte, when it lights up, makes for some decent burst as well, being so cheap.
mace vs sword spec:
600 armor is likely to be a null percent that 1 sword proc out classes.... 3k on the other hand, not so much
kiting issues: fleet footed alone makes muti harder to kite, and shadowstep still works when snared... just not rooted
i see your point about the 2 min sprint... but you sprint, you get feared, curse of EX/frostbolt/imp icy touch/spamstring/hunter bullsh*t and your completely SoL
but mainly, if i got 5 seconds to do damage before im re-kited, muti pours out much more then combat will.... so while the concern is there for all the builds
the more bursty you are, the less it affects you (and riposte doesnt count, you need to aprry to make that work.. not dependable at all) ... it jsut seems aside from the silencing DT, muti outclasses combat in everyway and performs almost equal in raids (probably AHEAD of your combat.. since your combat/sub, not pvp-splashed combat/***)
im sure with the right partner itll work... i just wonder if it would ever work better then muti in any situation past 1v1 with another melee ignoring healers.... that seems to the be your focus is anti-melee which isnt a huge concern in most arena settings
without QR, your healer would lose healer/deeps vs healer/deeps most likely
just requires some testing imo, but i dont expect to be wow'd into a different opinion, just my 3 cents
Edited, Nov 24th 2008 4:47pm by mongoosexcore
600 armor is likely to be a null percent that 1 sword proc out classes.... 3k on the other hand, not so much
kiting issues: fleet footed alone makes muti harder to kite, and shadowstep still works when snared... just not rooted
i see your point about the 2 min sprint... but you sprint, you get feared, curse of EX/frostbolt/imp icy touch/spamstring/hunter bullsh*t and your completely SoL
but mainly, if i got 5 seconds to do damage before im re-kited, muti pours out much more then combat will.... so while the concern is there for all the builds
the more bursty you are, the less it affects you (and riposte doesnt count, you need to aprry to make that work.. not dependable at all) ... it jsut seems aside from the silencing DT, muti outclasses combat in everyway and performs almost equal in raids (probably AHEAD of your combat.. since your combat/sub, not pvp-splashed combat/***)
im sure with the right partner itll work... i just wonder if it would ever work better then muti in any situation past 1v1 with another melee ignoring healers.... that seems to the be your focus is anti-melee which isnt a huge concern in most arena settings
without QR, your healer would lose healer/deeps vs healer/deeps most likely
just requires some testing imo, but i dont expect to be wow'd into a different opinion, just my 3 cents
Edited, Nov 24th 2008 4:47pm by mongoosexcore
Thanks for your input, it's hard to refute your point about speccing to pour in as much damage as possible in your limited on-target time.
Does fleet footed really matter that much now that it's un-RNG'd? Kited is still kited, **** lasting 7 seconds rather than 10 seconds doesn't seem like a huge benefit to me.
To address QR (tbh, I'm surprised someone didn't bring it up sooner), Nerves of Steel probably more than makes up for it. You're gonna be running around with an MS effect on you most of the time anyways, so you're still only receiving 60% healing.
You're right about wanting to be anti-melee. I theorize it's the part of me that's still bitter about warriors that spend entire matches tunnel visioning my partner, soaking up and getting healed through my damage like it's a pleasant spring rain, then turning around and ******** a full rage bar on my chest. QQ
Does fleet footed really matter that much now that it's un-RNG'd? Kited is still kited, **** lasting 7 seconds rather than 10 seconds doesn't seem like a huge benefit to me.
To address QR (tbh, I'm surprised someone didn't bring it up sooner), Nerves of Steel probably more than makes up for it. You're gonna be running around with an MS effect on you most of the time anyways, so you're still only receiving 60% healing.
You're right about wanting to be anti-melee. I theorize it's the part of me that's still bitter about warriors that spend entire matches tunnel visioning my partner, soaking up and getting healed through my damage like it's a pleasant spring rain, then turning around and ******** a full rage bar on my chest. QQ
fleet footed is also 115% movement, dont forget
and the trouble with being SO anti-melee... is that if they DONT focus you (which they have lots of reasons not to) half your build is useless
and the trouble with being SO anti-melee... is that if they DONT focus you (which they have lots of reasons not to) half your build is useless
Quote:
Killing Spree (which works an awful lot like ShS in PvP),
What?
No.
Go try it. If you've got a bad lack of mobility and you're fighting 1 or 2 opponents, killing spree is actually the talent you use to close the gap. Well, or you can just be kited and get killed anyway.
Using Killing Spree as a ghetto-Shadowstep would be like trying to hit a fly at 30 yards with birdshot.
But if you need to pick between dying and using the birdshot, my choice is quickly made.
I'm not saying you use it as lightly as Shadowstep, just that it has the function of gap closer. On what other occasion would you want to use it?
I'm not saying you use it as lightly as Shadowstep, just that it has the function of gap closer. On what other occasion would you want to use it?
You can use Killing Spree while rooted. That really pulled me to it. But i'll offer my "Retarded" input.
The big big talents that I simply could not deal without having are:
Malice
Lethality
Some say Lethality isn't that good, but I *really* notice it bump my crits up. Turns my hemo's from 1100 crits into 1500-1700 crits. I'd say that's a pretty large jump. Especially since the power of a sword spec comes from combo point damage from hemo/SS, making those do as much as you can is what you *should* be speccing for. If I spec into assassination I will always be putting 5 CP into lethality.
Sub:
The PVP utilities here are just way way too much.
Relentless Strikes, Imp Sap, Camo, Elusiveness, MoD, HS, Dirty Tricks, Prep.
Then you got to think you'll be paying 60 energy for Cheap Shot and 50 energy for Garrote, and only getting 1 or 2 CP for it. You have an expensive energy CP ability (SS), so it kind-of bums your ability to open. If you spec 51 points into combat you can get everything in the sub tree up to Elusiveness, (You can get initiative too, but have to sacrifice malice) but still no real ability to open without wasting more then half your energy to do so.
I really think it would do well if Combat had a better way to open and there would be a way to generate CP better then using 40 energy SS's and praying that if you get a crit theres a 40% chance you'll get another CP. It would do very very well in arena, but it would blow compared to anything else. Just my opinion. Theo will waltz in here in a few minutes, claiming that i'm a ******, but this is just my experience as a rogue with more HK's then him.
The big big talents that I simply could not deal without having are:
Malice
Lethality
Some say Lethality isn't that good, but I *really* notice it bump my crits up. Turns my hemo's from 1100 crits into 1500-1700 crits. I'd say that's a pretty large jump. Especially since the power of a sword spec comes from combo point damage from hemo/SS, making those do as much as you can is what you *should* be speccing for. If I spec into assassination I will always be putting 5 CP into lethality.
Sub:
The PVP utilities here are just way way too much.
Relentless Strikes, Imp Sap, Camo, Elusiveness, MoD, HS, Dirty Tricks, Prep.
Then you got to think you'll be paying 60 energy for Cheap Shot and 50 energy for Garrote, and only getting 1 or 2 CP for it. You have an expensive energy CP ability (SS), so it kind-of bums your ability to open. If you spec 51 points into combat you can get everything in the sub tree up to Elusiveness, (You can get initiative too, but have to sacrifice malice) but still no real ability to open without wasting more then half your energy to do so.
I really think it would do well if Combat had a better way to open and there would be a way to generate CP better then using 40 energy SS's and praying that if you get a crit theres a 40% chance you'll get another CP. It would do very very well in arena, but it would blow compared to anything else. Just my opinion. Theo will waltz in here in a few minutes, claiming that i'm a ******, but this is just my experience as a rogue with more HK's then him.
Hume male, Zafire, Server: Sylph
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
Quote:
Theo will waltz in here in a few minutes, claiming that i'm a ******, but this is just my experience as a rogue with more HK's then him.
Because clearly having more HKs means something.
I think the main problem isn't that Combat is bad per se, its just the other two are much much better.
Quote:
I think the main problem isn't that Combat is bad per se, its just the other two are much much better.
That makes sense, really.
And I don't really mind Zafire butting in. At least he thinks about it; your opinion about him is your own (as a general statement). Besides, even if he comes up with bad points, they can be countered resulting in a general clarification about business. But enough people talk, we have too much of that here anyway.
While Killing Spree can be used if the guy running away from you is very close, it has nowhere enar the range of uses ShS does, and it normally best used as a large burst of damage without an energy cost.
Hmm, was the range always 10 yards? I'm under the impression that while the jump range was short, the ability at least had a normal range. Either it's changed since the PTR's or I'm being odd.
Zafire the Tulip wrote:
Theo will waltz in here in a few minutes, claiming that i'm a ******, but this is just my experience as a rogue with more HK's then him.
You are a ******.
I have 15k HKs on 2 of my 70s (Theophany/Dumbrage). I have 25k on Korz. I have another 7k on Löcke.
15k + 15k + 25k + 7k = 62k. You have more than 62k HKs? Really?
It's OK though, you can continue to think that Lethality is needed in PvP and not just a filler talent.
Forgive me for the armory not showing most of them; Locke/Theo are on my second account and I haven't had the urge to play Dumbrage since a week or two into S3.
@ Zafire:
What? The power of a combat spec comes from its sustained white damage. Rogue your main? O_O
I don't much care about my opener as combat. It's nice if I get it, but without MoD or HS, mut/prep rogues are gonna get me anyways, unless they suck or get super unlucky. I wouldn't dream of running combat spec without a healer, and your opener is only really important in dual dps.
On the Theo topic, I think you'll be best off just swallowing your pride and leaving it alone. I've lurked the rogue boards for several years now, and I've found that he's permanently specced 5/5 into Improved Pissing Contest:
Improved Pissing Contest (Rank 5)
Anytime an enemy flames you, you have a 100% chance to cause them to dig their hole even deeper. Can affect multiple targets.
Quote:
Some say Lethality isn't that good, but I *really* notice it bump my crits up. Turns my hemo's from 1100 crits into 1500-1700 crits. I'd say that's a pretty large jump. Especially since the power of a sword spec comes from combo point damage from hemo/SS, making those do as much as you can is what you *should* be speccing for. If I spec into assassination I will always be putting 5 CP into lethality.
What? The power of a combat spec comes from its sustained white damage. Rogue your main? O_O
Quote:
Then you got to think you'll be paying 60 energy for Cheap Shot and 50 energy for Garrote, and only getting 1 or 2 CP for it. You have an expensive energy CP ability (SS), so it kind-of bums your ability to open. If you spec 51 points into combat you can get everything in the sub tree up to Elusiveness, (You can get initiative too, but have to sacrifice malice) but still no real ability to open without wasting more then half your energy to do so.
I don't much care about my opener as combat. It's nice if I get it, but without MoD or HS, mut/prep rogues are gonna get me anyways, unless they suck or get super unlucky. I wouldn't dream of running combat spec without a healer, and your opener is only really important in dual dps.
On the Theo topic, I think you'll be best off just swallowing your pride and leaving it alone. I've lurked the rogue boards for several years now, and I've found that he's permanently specced 5/5 into Improved Pissing Contest:
Improved Pissing Contest (Rank 5)
Anytime an enemy flames you, you have a 100% chance to cause them to dig their hole even deeper. Can affect multiple targets.
Quote:
What? The power of a combat spec comes from its sustained white damage. Rogue your main? O_O
This is a PVP topic. You are wearing BG/arena gear, not PvE gear. Your hit rate is a lot lower, thus your white damage is going to be. Sustained white damage is not as important as yellow damage in PvP unless you are using SnD and Blade Furry, which is hardly reliable in PVP since blade furry is on a two minute cooldown and theres so many ways for anything to get away from you or nullify your damage.
Quote:
I don't much care about my opener as combat. It's nice if I get it, but without MoD or HS, mut/prep rogues are gonna get me anyways, unless they suck or get super unlucky. I wouldn't dream of running combat spec without a healer, and your opener is only really important in dual dps.
So you're agreeing with me and saying it's not really that good. Ok, thanks. Seriously, though, if you don't open with Cheap Shot or Garrote you're in for a world of pain.
Quote:
You are a ******.
I have 15k HKs on 2 of my 70s (Theophany/Dumbrage). I have 25k on Korz. I have another 7k on Löcke.
15k + 15k + 25k + 7k = 62k. You have more than 62k HKs? Really?
I have 15k HKs on 2 of my 70s (Theophany/Dumbrage). I have 25k on Korz. I have another 7k on Löcke.
15k + 15k + 25k + 7k = 62k. You have more than 62k HKs? Really?
I just said that to fire you up. It's more of a hobby for me now then a problem. I don't really see how you count your other characters as experience on your Rogue though. But that's alright. You're the guy who said HAT is like Ruthlessness after all, when it's not even close. Unless the only finishing moves you use is Envenom, Deadly Throw, and Evis and have a 60% crit rate.
Quote:
It's OK though, you can continue to think that Lethality is needed in PvP and not just a filler talent.
I have spec'd it and went without speccing it. Theres is a huge difference on yellow damage.
Hume male, Zafire, Server: Sylph
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
Zafire the Tulip wrote:
Quote:
You are a ******.
I have 15k HKs on 2 of my 70s (Theophany/Dumbrage). I have 25k on Korz. I have another 7k on Löcke.
15k + 15k + 25k + 7k = 62k. You have more than 62k HKs? Really?
I have 15k HKs on 2 of my 70s (Theophany/Dumbrage). I have 25k on Korz. I have another 7k on Löcke.
15k + 15k + 25k + 7k = 62k. You have more than 62k HKs? Really?
I just said that to fire you up. It's more of a hobby for me now then a problem. I don't really see how you count your other characters as experience on your Rogue though. But that's alright. You're the guy who said HAT is like Ruthlessness after all, when it's not even close. Unless the only finishing moves you use is Envenom, Deadly Throw, and Evis and have a 60% crit rate.
Actually I said it was like "Seal Fate + Ruthlessness, but way better for 3 points". That was my opinion.
My Evis at the time had ~55% crit rate, BTW. So yeah, in PvP, it was pretty close.
My experience is added up to the sum total that I know more about this game than you do. I've been playing since 2004; of course I know more than you do.
The fact that you think that you're better/more experienced in PvP than I am based on your rogue's HKs versus mine is laughable. I'll go sit in AV all day and farm HKs to get to 300k HKs. Then I'll obviously be the best rogue in the world, right?
I've been to 2k in arena. The most deaths I've seen in one BG in the past year is 4-5. I average 10-20 KBs in BGs. I do as much damage in arena matches as a T6-geared feral druid as a ShD spec.
My gear eclipses yours so hard that it's not even funny.
I don't care if you said anything to "fire me up". Your comments towards me show a lack of understanding and respect of what I've done.
I don't care if you hate my attitude. I don't care if you call me a geek, nerd, lifeless loser (though I have to say, I'm a hell of a lot better looking than you--just getting that in before you start slinging insults my way), or whatever.
You will, though, respect and understand what I've done. I've been farther in endgame in both vanilla WoW and TBC than you ever will, even going back at 80. I've been to higher arena brackets than you will ever see. I've done more theorycrafting and research for this forum than damn near every other poster (Therion, Nooblestick, and Kavekk being the only possible exceptions that come to mind).
Respect me and understand what I've done. I don't really care if you respect me as a person, but you will respect my knowledge of this game and of rogues in general, because it's far greater than your meager comprehension.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
My multiple epeens are larger, more muscular and, yes, more impressive than yours.
FTFY
Edited, Nov 26th 2008 5:02am by zepoodle
Quote:
Actually I said it was like "Seal Fate + Ruthlessness, but way better for 3 points". That was my opinion.
My Evis at the time had ~55% crit rate, BTW. So yeah, in PvP, it was pretty close.
My Evis at the time had ~55% crit rate, BTW. So yeah, in PvP, it was pretty close.
I check your armory ofton, you never had anything reasonably close to a 45% crit rate. Hell I checked it when you were 77 and my crit rate was higher then yours at 78 with 3 points in sinister calling. All that really shows is your crit isn't really that different then mine, and I was not sitting at no 45% crit. I could hit 38% if I sacrificed a lot of attack and went full sub, but you don't go sub anymore, do you? Plus you have to take Resilience into account. You were NOT hitting 55% crit evis's.
Quote:
My experience is added up to the sum total that I know more about this game than you do. I've been playing since 2004; of course I know more than you do.
The fact that you think that you're better/more experienced in PvP than I am based on your rogue's HKs versus mine is laughable. I'll go sit in AV all day and farm HKs to get to 300k HKs. Then I'll obviously be the best rogue in the world, right?
The fact that you think that you're better/more experienced in PvP than I am based on your rogue's HKs versus mine is laughable. I'll go sit in AV all day and farm HKs to get to 300k HKs. Then I'll obviously be the best rogue in the world, right?
Of course you know more about the game then I do. I never said you didn't. I've only been playing the game for 4 months, how could I possibly know more then someone who's been playing it for psalms longer then I have?
And I don't think I am more experienced in PVP then you are. I said that to get you to write novels on how retarded of a statement that was. It's satisfying to me and you. I laugh at you, you stroke your ego by making the statement sound retarded. Win/win. Right?
Quote:
My gear eclipses yours so hard that it's not even funny.
In PVP gear? It certainly is better then mine, but S2 isn't really as bad as you make it sound. Plus, I don't think you've checked my armory lately. I have a lot of new toys.
Quote:
I don't care if you said anything to "fire me up". Your comments towards me show a lack of understanding and respect of what I've done.
I don't care if you hate my attitude. I don't care if you call me a geek, nerd, lifeless loser (though I have to say, I'm a hell of a lot better looking than you--just getting that in before you start slinging insults my way), or whatever.
You will, though, respect and understand what I've done. I've been farther in endgame in both vanilla WoW and TBC than you ever will, even going back at 80. I've been to higher arena brackets than you will ever see. I've done more theorycrafting and research for this forum than damn near every other poster (Therion, Nooblestick, and Kavekk being the only possible exceptions that come to mind).
Respect me and understand what I've done. I don't really care if you respect me as a person, but you will respect my knowledge of this game and of rogues in general, because it's far greater than your meager comprehension.
I don't care if you hate my attitude. I don't care if you call me a geek, nerd, lifeless loser (though I have to say, I'm a hell of a lot better looking than you--just getting that in before you start slinging insults my way), or whatever.
You will, though, respect and understand what I've done. I've been farther in endgame in both vanilla WoW and TBC than you ever will, even going back at 80. I've been to higher arena brackets than you will ever see. I've done more theorycrafting and research for this forum than damn near every other poster (Therion, Nooblestick, and Kavekk being the only possible exceptions that come to mind).
Respect me and understand what I've done. I don't really care if you respect me as a person, but you will respect my knowledge of this game and of rogues in general, because it's far greater than your meager comprehension.
You have to show respect to get it. I don't care how much you know. You can't go around slashing down others all the time and expect them to still look up to you and suck your ****.
Quote:
(though I have to say, I'm a hell of a lot better looking than you--just getting that in before you start slinging insults my way)
Depends on what you think is "good" I don't look bad by any means
Piccy:
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7192/memememela0.jpg
Hume male, Zafire, Server: Sylph
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
Does anyone else feel a lot of pent up sexual tension between Theo and Zafire ??
robertlofthouse wrote:
Does anyone else feel a lot of pent up sexual tension between Theo and Zafire ??
Oh, man. I was going to say it first, but I didn't want to be a dick.
Edited, Nov 26th 2008 9:50am by zepoodle
zepoodle wrote:
robertlofthouse wrote:
Does anyone else feel a lot of pent up sexual tension between Theo and Zafire ??
Oh, man. I was going to say it first, but I didn't want to be a dick.
Why not, acting like a childish dick is what's supposed to earn respect around here.
Wow... this literally went from an off-topic man vs man discussion to an e-peen contest. "though I have to say, I'm a hell of a lot better looking than you", Theo? Seriously, we've had our quarrels but I can't say I expected something like that.
Just 3 things:
-Gear /=/ skill. My gear eclipses yours is not an argument until you've earned gear that requires a high arena rating (2100+). And then the argument is that you've done 2100+ arenas, not that your gear is good.
-Not an argument either.
-I've done that. You'll either have to admit I'm not as horrible as you make me look, or akknowledge they aren't arguments to skill either.
Now you can get back to shouting at eachother.
Just 3 things:
-Gear /=/ skill. My gear eclipses yours is not an argument until you've earned gear that requires a high arena rating (2100+). And then the argument is that you've done 2100+ arenas, not that your gear is good.
Quote:
I've been playing since 2004; of course I know more than you do.
-Not an argument either.
Quote:
The most deaths I've seen in one BG in the past year is 4-5. I average 10-20 KBs in BGs.
-I've done that. You'll either have to admit I'm not as horrible as you make me look, or akknowledge they aren't arguments to skill either.
Now you can get back to shouting at eachother.
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